An Honest Proposal: Mage summon rec. levels

[cornelweezy]

Hey folks. Story time.

I was sitting outside of Athica today handing out Staves of the Magi because it was a dope quest I want to show off and I like sharing. Plus, they're great for newbie casters. A young ranger (7th level, I believe) approached me and asked me if I could summon anything he could take advantage of...I flipped through my book and found that besides the "Of Power" weapons, I could summon these four:

Summoned: Fang
4dmg/17delay 10HP

Summoned: Spear of Warding
8dmg/30delay 20HP 5 to all saves

Summoned: Sword of Runes
9dmg/27delay 20HP 5 to all saves
Proc: Runeguard
Recommended level of 20

Summoned: Dagger of Symbols
8dmg/22delay 5 to all saves
Proc: Runeguard
Recommended level of 20


...Now, as nice as the hp bonuses from the Fang and Spear are, Runeguard would have done that young ranger a great bit of good if only he could have been able to use it.

I submit, for Dev consideration, that he SHOULD have been able to use one of my weapons to it's full capabilities. It should be the burden of the Magician to have the skills necessary to summon a more powerful item, not a burden on the fledgling newbie to gain the skills to use it.

Considering the hand-me-downs and market conditions right now, virtually any newbie with a few hours under his belt, and enough direction to use listsold could buy a weapon better than 9/27 with some hp and resists even with the rune proc for chump coin. I don't think any kind of balancing would've been broken had this ranger, or even a whole yard of newb melees, been mobbing around with Swords of Runes and I doubt, if the change I envision takes place, any new melee toons will be hounding magicians to summon weapons as if Dalaya doesn't have enough weapons readily available at low levels that surpass those summoned in both ratio and overall statistical benefit. Run-on sentence. I know.

Please consider this. As a magician, I want my "low to mid" level summons to be accessible to everyone at their leisure. If I can summon a haste bauble at 62 for that newb ranger to wear and use, I should be able to summon a sword at 29 he can take full advantage of. (Please don't add a required level to Bauble of Battle)

In short, I request that you remove the rec levels from the aforementioned magician summons.
Thanks for reading. :toot:

 

[vistachiri]

Hey folks. Story time.

I was sitting outside of Athica today handing out Staves of the Magi because it was a dope quest I want to show off and I like sharing. Plus, they're great for newbie casters. A young ranger (7th level, I believe) approached me and asked me if I could summon anything he could take advantage of...I flipped through my book and found that besides the "Of Power" weapons, I could summon these four:

Summoned: Fang
4dmg/17delay 10HP

Summoned: Spear of Warding
8dmg/30delay 20HP 5 to all saves

Summoned: Sword of Runes
9dmg/27delay 20HP 5 to all saves
Proc: Runeguard
Recommended level of 20

Summoned: Dagger of Symbols
8dmg/22delay 5 to all saves
Proc: Runeguard
Recommended level of 20


...Now, as nice as the hp bonuses from the Fang and Spear are, Runeguard would have done that young ranger a great bit of good if only he could have been able to use it.

I submit, for Dev consideration, that he SHOULD have been able to use one of my weapons to it's full capabilities. It should be the burden of the Magician to have the skills necessary to summon a more powerful item, not a burden on the fledgling newbie to gain the skills to use it.

Considering the hand-me-downs and market conditions right now, virtually any newbie with a few hours under his belt, and enough direction to use listsold could buy a weapon better than 9/27 with some hp and resists even with the rune proc for chump coin. I don't think any kind of balancing would've been broken had this ranger, or even a whole yard of newb melees, been mobbing around with Swords of Runes and I doubt, if the change I envision takes place, any new melee toons will be hounding magicians to summon weapons as if Dalaya doesn't have enough weapons readily available at low levels that surpass those summoned in both ratio and overall statistical benefit. Run-on sentence. I know.

Please consider this. As a magician, I want my "low to mid" level summons to be accessible to everyone at their leisure. If I can summon a haste bauble at 62 for that newb ranger to wear and use, I should be able to summon a sword at 29 he can take full advantage of. (Please don't add a required level to Bauble of Battle)

In short, I request that you remove the rec levels from the aforementioned magician summons.
Thanks for reading. :toot:

I'm somewhat torn. While telling more people to wtf I'm busy, do you even see me in the same damn zone? would make a dark little place inside my soul literally jump with glee:

A) I already get enough tells for summons. I and I'd place a hedged bet that many of the other mages on the server have no desire to get more. My favorite is the
Guy I don't know: Hey can you summon me, this this and this for our group.
Me: Got room?
Guy I don't know: uh no we're full
Me: hahahahahahaa....no.
B) It would be pretty ridiculous and completely pretty much kill the lower level weapon market, as anyone with half a brain would be able to xp a mage to the level of getting rune swords in maybe a max of 2 days. Possibly up to a week if of course it is their absolute first character on the server.
I mean come on. Those swords are already better than everything on lower end blacksmithing, and blacksmiths already get fucked enough by other blacksmiths rapidly skilling and giving weapons away for free.
C) Level 20 is not exactly a harsh level requirement. If anything I think the level reccomendation should be raised, at least to the level of the spell. They are really pretty much meant to be petweapons, not your all purpose hey let's give every noob on the server free gear extravaganza spells. Summoned weapons beat a good bunch of the weapons at the low end in the first place because: A) ZOMGZ FREE!!1!!11! B) Decent stats/ratio for an actual newbie player (i.e. not a twink).
D) You would actually be hurting them in the long run. Consider the market that sells the lower end weapons. Give you a hint, it's not the high end players. It's their cohorts in low-leveledness. That is how many of them make plat. Selling to their brethren.
E) Let's not forget the summons poofing bug either, which still exists in some places. Most notably from snp to nnp. Gratz on summoning them weapons that probably just poofed. I wonder what happens to bags of holding.


Now before anyone goes ZOMGZ doom and gloom, f u that won't happan!!!!. Sure it won't completely break the lower end market. But it certainly won't do it any favors. Nor do I think it's really particularly justified at all. It is really really easy to make level 20 on most classes. Plus the fact they can still use it, with a very minor penalty, and none of the proc of course until they hit the level. Also let's not forget the level 7 ranger has like...150ish hp? Runeguard, (which procs decently often) gives him a 50hp rune would give him a rune for a third of their hp....... It should be pretty obvious why that would be a terrible idea.

 

[cornelweezy]

Tell me if this translation is a bit off:

A: I don't like summoning things for people.
B: Runes swords are too good to be in the hands of newbs.
C: Runes swords are too good to be in the hands of newbs.
D: Rune swords are summoned.
E. Rune swords are summoned.

Sure it won't completely break the lower end market. But it certainly won't do it any favors.

Nor do I think it's really particularly justified at all. It is really really easy to make level 20 on most classes.

Plus the fact they can still use it, with a very minor penalty, and none of the proc of course until they hit the level. Also let's not forget the level 7 ranger has like...150ish hp? Runeguard, (which procs decently often) gives him a 50hp rune would give him a rune for a third of their hp

....... It should be pretty obvious why that would be a terrible idea.

I like summoning stuff for people. I already made the point that anyone who was just rolling a new toon would have the money to replace this weapon with one that would never poof, would hit harder, and would have better stats. If it was a toon totally new to the server and possibly SoD, how would he know to come bother you for a new weapon unless he did extensive research on mages (which isn't his class if he's asking for a sword) and know their abilities and spells? I don't think enough people would prefer these weapons over other wordly choices, especially not in a manner that every new toon would be demanding one from a capable mage.

I know it's easy to make a lvl20 toon. In fact, it's been less than 20 hours, and he's probably already lvl20. My point is that the burden shouldn't be on him to get to lvl20, it should be on ME to be able to summon a weapon he can use. I got those 29 levels so that I can summon a weapon...I don't think it's wholly unreasonable that anyone being a lower level than I should be able to use the weapon appropriately and any mages higher level than I gain the ability to summon even better weapons.

At level16, enchanters get rune 1. At 65 (which a small cost to them or with the help of a mage for catseyes) they could cast it on a level 7. If that lvl7 really wanted rune, he could get it, so why not be able to get a dinky sword better than the ones dropping around him with the caveat that as soon as he logs out, it's going to go away (from a mage)?

I must be really dense. I don't see the obviousness.

 

[Manluas]

At level16, enchanters get rune 1. At 65 (which a small cost to them or with the help of a mage for catseyes) they could cast it on a level 7. If that lvl7 really wanted rune, he could get it, so why not be able to get a dinky sword better than the ones dropping around him with the caveat that as soon as he logs out, it's going to go away (from a mage)?

Sure, if an enchanter runs by he could do that, np. Anyways, a sword summoned that can proc rune on every attack the toon does is "slightly" different to some enchanter running by and giving you a one-shot rune. Those swords combined with haste rings on lowbie toons would make leveling for every class that uses swords insanely easy, just think about it for a bit and you might get the hint. I do think that the rec level is fine as is, it has been fine for the past couple of years. You'd greatly offset the lowlevel play if you erased the rec level (Tough luck casters) not to speak about the lowbie weapon market (has been lined out, not going to do it again).

 

[lotox]

You should know that there was a time when you could use those summoned daggers/swords at low levels, infact you could ask a mage to summon you a pile of them and mail them to yourself for future usage.

They were pretty overpowered and basically a free meal ticket.



And your comment on an enchanter casting rune of them is crap. the swords do not give you a penalty to experience when they proc in combat.
If you have an enchanter following you around to just rune before every fight; lol.


Luas and aisling basically said everything that needed to be said.

 

[cornelweezy]

Sure, if an enchanter runs by he could do that, np. Anyways, a sword summoned that can proc rune on every attack the toon does is "slightly" different to some enchanter running by and giving you a one-shot rune. Those swords combined with haste rings on lowbie toons would make leveling for every class that uses swords insanely easy, just think about it for a bit and you might get the hint. I do think that the rec level is fine as is, it has been fine for the past couple of years. You'd greatly offset the lowlevel play if you erased the rec level (Tough luck casters) not to speak about the lowbie weapon market (has been lined out, not going to do it again).

Just like if a mage runs by and can summon a weapon, it all works out?

True, the rune proc on the sword is different than a consistent one shot from an enchanter. It's a more chaotic chance. At lvl7, he could hunt for half an hour and not get a proc...mobs he's exping off of hit for between 8 and 11. It doesn't really seem like such a bonus to me.

Yeah, let's talk about the haste rings, but remember, all the stuff we're talking about is summoned, so the lvl7 KNOWS FULL WELL that it's going to poof when he logs out. I'll humor you.

Sword of runes is 9/27. BaubleOB is 18% haste.
27*.18= 4.86
27-4.86= 22.14
Making the SoR with Bauble 9/22.14 or about .41

Pretty huge. Let's talk a look at another newb weapon, on listsold for practically free.

Filth-Wreathed Scimitar (no rec level): 7/25, drops in newport sewers.
Initially faster...but with Bauble:
25*.18= 4.5
25-4.5= 20.5
Making the Scimitar with Bauble 7/20.5 or about .34.

At level 7, .07 difference really isn't noticeable, and moreso, the Scimitar procs Disease Cloud! That's a 5dmg nuke straight up with a DoT bonus...I assume any newb ranger would prefer that proc over the 50hp rune unless he was soloing.

There are many other weapons just like the Scimitar I could cite, but I think this one's good enough.

Again, just to put it out there, I don't think removing the rec levels on the mage summons I suggest would really break the market or worsen them in any significant way, but it couldn't be tested without experiment anyway.

Please, Devs, consider my proposal. :toot:

 

[cornelweezy]

Luas and aisling basically said everything that needed to be said.

Just because there's an argument against it doesn't mean there's a good argument against it.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Nwaij]

Just because there's an argument against it doesn't mean there's a good argument against it.

Thanks for playing.

Wow, trolling your own thread.

ngl, I laught.

 

[vistachiri]

Tell me if this translation is a bit off:



I like summoning stuff for people. I already made the point that anyone who was just rolling a new toon would have the money to replace this weapon with one that would never poof, would hit harder, and would have better stats. If it was a toon totally new to the server and possibly SoD, how would he know to come bother you for a new weapon unless he did extensive research on mages (which isn't his class if he's asking for a sword) and know their abilities and spells? I don't think enough people would prefer these weapons over other wordly choices, especially not in a manner that every new toon would be demanding one from a capable mage.

I know it's easy to make a lvl20 toon. In fact, it's been less than 20 hours, and he's probably already lvl20. My point is that the burden shouldn't be on him to get to lvl20, it should be on ME to be able to summon a weapon he can use. I got those 29 levels so that I can summon a weapon...I don't think it's wholly unreasonable that anyone being a lower level than I should be able to use the weapon appropriately and any mages higher level than I gain the ability to summon even better weapons.

At level16, enchanters get rune 1. At 65 (which a small cost to them or with the help of a mage for catseyes) they could cast it on a level 7. If that lvl7 really wanted rune, he could get it, so why not be able to get a dinky sword better than the ones dropping around him with the caveat that as soon as he logs out, it's going to go away (from a mage)?

I must be really dense. I don't see the obviousness.

Obviously a bit off, and only a blithering idiot would think that a market consideration = an item is summoned. Or for that matter the pointing out of a bug which for the most part makes this have much less of any sort of point for the moment. In fact the only part you're actually accurate on is point A.

Your pitiful attempt at being snide while stating the exact same things without answering 99% of the things said is noted. But let's take a trip down rebuttal lane.

1) "If it was a toon totally new to the server and possibly SoD, how would he know to come bother you for a new weapon unless he did extensive research on mages (which isn't his class if he's asking for a sword) and know their abilities and spells?"

Answer: Wiki + dalaya's beginners + forum occasionally. Being completely new to EQ whatsoever before I came here, it took me all of 10 minutes to figure out mages summon items. That is of course because I am not a complete idiot, and chanced to peruse the classes to figure out what I wanted to play in terms of what I wanted my role to be. Let me also point out my first character was in fact a shaman, so stfu before someone says I just looked in my spellbook.

2) "I got those 29 levels so that I can summon a weapon...I don't think it's wholly unreasonable that anyone being a lower level than I should be able to use the weapon appropriately"

Answer: Logical fallacy. They earned nothing. You earned something. They should not automatically benefit from your effort, expending none of their own. Same argument could be used with any of the recc levels. It is a crap argument.

3) "At level16, enchanters get rune 1. At 65 (which a small cost to them or with the help of a mage for catseyes) they could cast it on a level 7. If that lvl7 really wanted rune, he could get it, so why not be able to get a dinky sword better than the ones dropping around him with the caveat that as soon as he logs out, it's going to go away (from a mage)?"

Answer: Sure they could get a rune. 1 of them. Possibly. Because you're really looking at the help of 2 characters there. It's also a temporary buff. They take damage. It poofs. Runeguard procs repeatedly. It's really a question of effort. An enchanter follows him around constantly runing them, with a mage summoning a hell of alot of cats eyes for the enchanter, or a mage presses 1 button, and he has a weapon until he logs out for a half hour.

4) "True, the rune proc on the sword is different than a consistent one shot from an enchanter. It's a more chaotic chance. At lvl7, he could hunt for half an hour and not get a proc...mobs he's exping off of hit for between 8 and 11. It doesn't really seem like such a bonus to me."

Answer: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA omg hold on a second.. oh it hurts lolololololololol. But back to issue. No. It's not inconsistent. Goes off pretty damned often. My pet uses it constantly.

5) "Again, just to put it out there, I don't think removing the rec levels on the mage summons I suggest would really break the market or worsen them in any significant way, but it couldn't be tested without experiment anyway."

No, again I did not say it would break the market, I cautioned against misinterpretation at the end. It would however sure as hell not help it in any way whatsoever. It would help power-leveling, and giving you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, that's about it. It should be absolutely blindingly obvious, if you look at any number of changes that have been made in the past 2 years, that power leveling is frowned upon.

Just because there's an argument for it doesn't mean there's a good argument for it.

I like turtles.

Quote fixed.

 

[cornelweezy]

only a blithering idiot would think that a market consideration = an item is summoned. Or for that matter the pointing out of a bug which for the most part makes this have much less of any sort of point for the moment.

Answer: Wiki + dalaya's beginners + forum occasionally. Being completely new to EQ whatsoever before I came here, it took me all of 10 minutes to figure out mages summon items. That is of course because I am not a complete idiot.

Answer: Logical fallacy. They earned nothing. You earned something. They should not automatically benefit from your effort, expending none of their own. Same argument could be used with any of the recc levels. It is a crap argument.

Answer: Sure they could get a rune. 1 of them. Possibly. Because you're really looking at the help of 2 characters there. It's also a temporary buff. They take damage. It poofs. Runeguard procs repeatedly. It's really a question of effort. An enchanter follows him around constantly runing them, with a mage summoning a hell of alot of cats eyes for the enchanter, or a mage presses 1 button, and he has a weapon until he logs out for a half hour.

Answer: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA omg hold on a second.. oh it hurts lolololololololol. But back to issue. No. It's not inconsistent. Goes off pretty damned often. My pet uses it constantly.

No, again I did not say it would break the market, I cautioned against misinterpretation at the end. It would however sure as hell not help it in any way whatsoever. It would help power-leveling, and giving you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, that's about it.

It should be absolutely blindingly obvious, if you look at any number of changes that have been made in the past 2 years, that power leveling is frowned upon.

Thanks for the personal attacks. You're a fine role model.

That ranger (who was already level 7) approached me wondering if there was anything I could give him to use. He wasn't totally aware of my abilities....and I'm going to assume that most NEWBS that start playing SoD won't be either. Doesn't make them blithering/complete idiots.

I'll concede the fallacy, but that doesn't void the idea all together.
And I'll concede the amount of work a newb would have to do to get a chanter to run around casting rune 1 on him. I'm just saying, the rune proc isn't something wholly impossible to get your hands on...plus, your raid buffed relic pet is probably going to proc a little more often than a lvl7 ranger with no gear. My air pet seems to proc once every 8 minutes or so with good pulls. I did the math one awesome night in Elds...and he has far more opportunity to proc.

Yeah, it could be considered power levelling. But then again, I guess the luxury of summoning dots for people who ask me kindly when there are no other mages sitting Athica could be considered powerlevelling, too. They aren't doing anything for me, except maybe an occasional aego, but that certainly isn't every time and I damn sure never ask for it. I thought that was just my niche. I like the warm-fuzzy feeling.

And turtles are awesome.

 

[vistachiri]

Thanks for the personal attacks. You're a fine role model.

That ranger (who was already level 7) approached me wondering if there was anything I could give him to use. He wasn't totally aware of my abilities....and I'm going to assume that most NEWBS that start playing SoD won't be either. Doesn't make them blithering/complete idiots.

I'll concede the fallacy, but that doesn't void the idea all together.
And I'll concede the amount of work a newb would have to do to get a chanter to run around casting rune 1 on him. I'm just saying, the rune proc isn't something wholly impossible to get your hands on...plus, your raid buffed relic pet is probably going to proc a little more often than a lvl7 ranger with no gear. My air pet seems to proc once every 8 minutes or so with good pulls. I did the math one awesome night in Elds...and he has far more opportunity to proc.

Yeah, it could be considered power levelling. But then again, I guess the luxury of summoning dots for people who ask me kindly when there are no other mages sitting Athica could be considered powerlevelling, too. They aren't doing anything for me, except maybe an occasional aego, but that certainly isn't every time and I damn sure never ask for it. I thought that was just my niche. I like the warm-fuzzy feeling.

And turtles are awesome.

"That ranger (who was already level 7) approached me wondering if there was anything I could give him to use. He wasn't totally aware of my abilities....and I'm going to assume that most NEWBS that start playing SoD won't be either. Doesn't make them blithering/complete idiots."

No, it doesn't. Never said that particularly. I did say in much shorter form, that if you do 0 research on the classes, you have no idea what you can get, and thus deserve to get nothing, and are dumb.


"

Thanks for the personal attacks. You're a fine role model.

That ranger (who was already level 7) approached me wondering if there was anything I could give him to use. He wasn't totally aware of my abilities....and I'm going to assume that most NEWBS that start playing SoD won't be either. Doesn't make them blithering/complete idiots.

I'll concede the fallacy, but that doesn't void the idea all together.
And I'll concede the amount of work a newb would have to do to get a chanter to run around casting rune 1 on him. I'm just saying, the rune proc isn't something wholly impossible to get your hands on...plus, your raid buffed relic pet is probably going to proc a little more often than a lvl7 ranger with no gear. My air pet seems to proc once every 8 minutes or so with good pulls. I did the math one awesome night in Elds...and he has far more opportunity to proc.

"Yeah, it could be considered power levelling. But then again, I guess the luxury of summoning dots for people who ask me kindly when there are no other mages sitting Athica could be considered powerlevelling, too. They aren't doing anything for me, except maybe an occasional aego, but that certainly isn't every time and I damn sure never ask for it."

No, it really isn't. Power leveling is generally only considered in terms of 1-65. This is due to numerous reasons such as the xp difference, etc. Also the point is you could get aego from them. The fact that you choose not to has about as much to bear on the situation as puppies do on my breakfast decisions. Unless I feel like eating puppies. Which for the most part, I do not.

In regards to proc rate, I was under the impression proc rate was the same regardless. I've also noticed the relic pet proccing it quite a bit. People with lower stats proc irandos just about as often as I do. See Kaon v. Aisling super thirsty melee battle supreme.

 

[cornelweezy]

Summon Peridot is a lvl44 spell...?

Just to make sure I understand, this is a bad idea because we don't want newbs getting easier access to good weapons, regardless of availability, as well as the fact that anything interpreted as powerlevelling is a clear no-no?

 

[Finkk]

It wouldn't proc that often...

When I was level 8 I was missing left and right. You don't even get double attack / dual wield at that level.

 

[Tempus]

It wouldn't proc that often...

When I was level 8 I was missing left and right. You don't even get double attack / dual wield at that level.

You can proc on a miss.

 

[Llanoldar Lluindar]

You can proc on a miss.

You can proc on a miss if the mob mitigated your hit down to a miss, you can't proc on a straight out miss. Quoting TM on this (I think?)

If 8/19 mithril 1hs can have a recommended level of 0, then a 9/27 that disappears when you log off for the day can have a lower recommended level than 20. Maybe 10?

 

[Wesell]

You can proc on a miss if the mob mitigated your hit down to a miss, you can't proc on a straight out miss. Quoting TM on this (I think?)

If 8/19 mithril 1hs can have a recommended level of 0, then a 9/27 that disappears when you log off for the day can have a lower recommended level than 20. Maybe 10?

Yeah considering the smithed weapon progression the rec levels on these seam out of whack.

 

[vistachiri]

You can proc on a miss if the mob mitigated your hit down to a miss, you can't proc on a straight out miss. Quoting TM on this (I think?)

If 8/19 mithril 1hs can have a recommended level of 0, then a 9/27 that disappears when you log off for the day can have a lower recommended level than 20. Maybe 10?

That seems more of an issue with smithing in general tbh.

I've been noticing a crapload of procs lately on missing. I'm not sure whats up with that. Like I was just in elds and aisling was rocking out like hammerstyle procs on mobs in terms of frequency.

 

[Severien]

I'm going to agree with Yacub, Wesell, Finkk, and Llanoldar on this. Considering what else is available to low levels toons without too great an effort, a few of the lower level summons like sword of runes don't seem too overpowered. A 50hp rune proc is very considerable, but a 9/27 weapon with it isn't about to turn a level 5 paladin into an ungodly awesome leveling machine.

And no, I don't consider smithing to have issues, because the smithing weapons have to compete with what else is available in order for there to be incentive to actually buy them. Mithril weapons more or less set the standard for what a "good" weapon is from levels 1-30.

Edit: I had a bit of a lol at this:

I already get enough tells for summons. I and I'd place a hedged bet that many of the other mages on the server have no desire to get more.

So one of your main reasons, and the one that you felt necessary to mention first, for not making this summon usable by more people is because you play the class and you don't want to be bothered? I guess they better nerf the bauble of battle and peridots while they're at it, so the stodgy bastards of the server don't have to be bothered to receive some tells when they refuse to /role.

I apologize if this comes off as a personal attack, I just don't think this is a valid reason whatsoever and should not ever even be mentioned when it comes to buffs and summons.

 

[vistachiri]

I'm going to agree with Yacub, Wesell, Finkk, and Llanoldar on this. Considering what else is available to low levels toons without too great an effort, a few of the lower level summons like sword of runes don't seem too overpowered. A 50hp rune proc is very considerable, but a 9/27 weapon with it isn't about to turn a level 5 paladin into an ungodly awesome leveling machine.

And no, I don't consider smithing to have issues, because the smithing weapons have to compete with what else is available in order for there to be incentive to actually buy them. Mithril weapons more or less set the standard for what a "good" weapon is from levels 1-30.

Edit: I had a bit of a lol at this:


So one of your main reasons, and the one that you felt necessary to mention first, for not making this summon usable by more people is because you play the class and you don't want to be bothered? I guess they better nerf the bauble of battle and peridots while they're at it, so the stodgy bastards of the server don't have to be bothered to receive some tells when they refuse to /role.

I apologize if this comes off as a personal attack, I just don't think this is a valid reason whatsoever and should not ever even be mentioned when it comes to buffs and summons.

Nope, but it was an intentional weak part of the argument to bait people to try and attack it solely on that basis so they look bad.

You also neglect to answer most of the other points. A rune usable by a low level character that would literally rune for like a third of their hps I think is unbalanced, and that's saying alot because I've been against most of the nerfs with respect to lower level characters. But there is such a thing as making the game far too easy even at the earlier levels.

Protip: Always /roled

 

[Severien]

Admitting to troll baiting then, eh.

I don't consider it that unbalancing because for one, its only 1/3 of a sword-wielding classes' hp until around level 5, and its extremely easy to twink HP with items that DONT poof anyhow. To suggest that this one item would throw those levels completely out of whack also suggests that most other items with no level rec. should be looked at for nerfing.

For two, you're cutting the time it takes to level from 5 to 6 from like 30 mins (conservative guesstimate) to about 20... Wow, that toon missed out on all crazy sorts of content.

Final thing I'll say is that if you think back to when you were a dalaya noob, the level 1-8ish difficulty curve for some untwinked classes, warrior being one of the major ones, is (or used to be) WAY harder than leveling from 8ish-20ish. WAY. I died a couple dozen times getting my warrior to 7 because I was in Greenmist, didn't know how to use a mop, had no one to group with, no twink items, and because for some reason the guards only saved me when they felt like it. I had a solid background in Live (which doesn't mean much, but it helps with noobsauce) and I still had to start up a cleric to box (now my main) to make the low-end experience less painful. Not everyone has the desire or ability to box in some help... a mage handing a low level toon a half decent weapon would only serve to smooth out that curve a bit. And yeah, with a 50hp rune proc you will get a free kill about one in every 5 mobs until you reach level 5, but come on, its level 1-5. This isn't unbalancing, and would give some Dalayans the ability to do something nice for a newbie they pass by without running back to the bank and buying them something.