Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
While I agree that enchanter aas are by and large subpar, what in god's name does that poorly-spelled post have to do with anything? There's already a thread for perma, keep it there.
AA suggestions thread
- Thread starter Thinkmeats
- Start date
baboo said:
yarly... i dont see how this would be overpowering since mages get that relic pet PLUS aa benefits. it seems to make sense to me anyway. Its not like a fully aa's bst lvl 63 can really compete with a lvl 65 mage relic pet spell with a fully aa's mage. I understand that they are two different classes and try my best to not compare them. Allowing bst pets to utilize the aa's gained by the PC would be more balancing than not imo.
kinedar wrote
Well, considering the versatilty of the mages pre-relic pets it's not as if giving them this AA would be overpowering from what I can tell. Even if beastlords got a similar AA change to allow their pets to receive the same AA bonus's as the beastlord himself, the mages still have a pet with slow, DS, root, stun; and then their's the relic pet which is already alot better then the beastlord pet... before beastlord pets were at least close to mage pets overall, but i cant see them being anywhere near a mage pet under the control of a well AA'd mage.
Well, considering the versatilty of the mages pre-relic pets it's not as if giving them this AA would be overpowering from what I can tell. Even if beastlords got a similar AA change to allow their pets to receive the same AA bonus's as the beastlord himself, the mages still have a pet with slow, DS, root, stun; and then their's the relic pet which is already alot better then the beastlord pet... before beastlord pets were at least close to mage pets overall, but i cant see them being anywhere near a mage pet under the control of a well AA'd mage.
Beastlords benifit from their combat AAs, whereas a mage used to not benifit.
Without pet enhancement a mage can safely retire after getting 100 AAs because all you really would need is spell crits. Anything more than that used to be a waste of time until mages got pet enhancement. A beastlord can get over 300 and still see benifits.
Without pet enhancement a mage can safely retire after getting 100 AAs because all you really would need is spell crits. Anything more than that used to be a waste of time until mages got pet enhancement. A beastlord can get over 300 and still see benifits.
Raherin said:
My point is that there is no point, and if hamsters could ride motorcycles we'd all be clowns in vegas selling our bodies to the porn industry so we can eat macaroni and cheese while watching WWF on cable TV. In the unlikely event cats learn to speak english be ready to equip your monkeys with machine guns so they can frolick in the pasture with the white tail deer.
I guess what im really trying to say is when life deals you lemons you should close up shop and eat the green grass on the other side of the fence where there's rainbows.
For(can't remember...i beleive 9 AA's) the mages pet gets a 15% increase in dmg/hp. This AA alone makes their pets quite a bit better. Then for an additional 44 AA's there pets get an extra 10% bonus to hp 20% increase in melee precious and an extra 20% melee avoidance, and crit spells. I know beastlords haven't been nerfed or anything. it just seems like they are being left behind as a second rate pet class with gimp melee.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Raherin said:
If that's your only reasoning why bst's shouldn't get pet enhancement, would you support such a skill for enchanters, given that we can only really use 100 of our AAs for the same reason? No? Then why is that a damning factor for beastlords? Given that beastlords already see some use out of those AAs, pet enhancement would make quite a bit of sense for their class. RP-wise too. It's really a very good fit.
Kasreyn said:
"Jack of all trades but master of none" has this nasty way of becoming "I suck, but I suck at everything" if you don't pay close attention. Complaints of "this sucks dick for my class" can be brushed aside with "it's not supposed to be good", and since there's very little to compare them with, problems can arise. I'm not saying beastlords suck, mind, but I am saying that the jack-of-all-trades defense shouldn't be left to stand alone as the reasoning for anything.
I'm not comparing enchanters, I'm comparing the two main pet classes - beastlords/mages. I haven't looked at enchanters AAs (yet at least). I don't see enchanters getting/needing this AA because they aren't even a pet focused class. Mages are intended to be the master of summoning and thus have the best pets. Enchanters aren't quite the summoners mages are suppose to be, let alone the fact they can charm mobs that'll straight up be better than the relic mage pet (with risk of course, as there should be). The only real wasted AA in the elemental enhancement (speaking as if enchanters had this AA) that enchanters have is combat ferocity. I'm sure a chanter will find combat agility and extra hps very useful being the class that they are. Also note which AAs transfer to the pet - Combat agility/ferocity, hps (although I'm not certain this transfers) and crit chance. And the pet's crit chance is not the same as the mages. Perhaps enchanters need something, but I don't think elemental enhancement would be it, since they charm, and aren't really a single pet focused class
I can see this AA fitting for beastlords in an RP sense, but they don't need it, as mages needed an AA like this in the past.
Putting enchanters and beastlords aside, elemental enhancement opened the door for mages to have a reason to keep playing after 100 AAs.
I'm not arguing if beastlords are lacking or not, or enchanters. I'm saying that I don't see beastlords or (now) enchanters <needing> this AA like a mage does/did.
Please note that beastlord pets are almost the same dps as relic mage pet (with full AAs), they aren't that far behind. Mage pet has more hps, as they should.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Raherin said:
I mentioned enchanters (who obviously should not get pet enhancement) as an example of why the 100 aas notion was flawed. Moreover, the notions of "X isn't a pet focused class!", "X is less than Y is less than the Jones's", and so on have little bearing on whether or not Beastlords should have any given AA, in this case pet enhancement. It makes huge sense for their class, it synergizes nicely with their other AA spending, and all in all is an excellent fit. If it would overpower the BST's pet, then reduce it's benifit for BSTs; say they only get a portion of each AA's bonus added on their pets because they already make use of it. Balance-wise it can be tweaked up or down based on the needs of the times; this is deciding what flavor a facet of beastlord strength should take, not whether it would be over or under- powered, which is an entirely different discussion even though it may not seem to be.
Personally speaking, if I may deviate some from my own OP in the thread and talking about power levels of the AAs after all, I wouldn't mind just giving beastlords pet enhancement. As it stands, they get benifit from melee aas and caster aas, but because their dps is split between each, each of them only has a portion of the effect on their overall dps as it might. If SPELL_AA_1 gives +2 dps to a caster and MELEE_AA_1 gives +2 dps to a melee, beastlords can take both but get +1 from each, and end up spending twice as much to get that same +2. Increasing their AA efficiency would stop them from hemoragging AAs all over the place but keep their place on the dps hierarchy because the AAs only modify what was already there (no amount of spell crit AA will make Blizzard Blast have higher base damage, for example).
Thinkmeats said:
Okay, then what beastlord AA should be erased in favor of pet enhancement? Keep in mind you need to choose something that is relatively worthless. The AA that was deleted in favor of Pet enhancement was Pet Bond. I don't even remember what it did, but I know it was an exceptionally worthless AA.
Keep in mind, if you give beastlords pet enhancement and tweak it down as to not overpower beastlord pets (as beastlord pets are currently slightly less dps than mages pets, which is right where they are suppose to be) it is a time sink because as I've stated, beastlord don't need pet enhancement. This would be more of a nice thing to have to replace some horrible AA that beastlords have.
We would however need a well AAed beastlord *cough Kas* (or someone quite knowledgable to beastlord AAs) to give input on what AAs can be considered worthless.
Joudas
Dalayan Adventurer
Seeing as there's a total of 3 classes that rely on their pets (Mages, Necros, Beastlords) - Enchanters, Druids, etc have pets, but they're auxillery benefits, by no means class defining - and the suggestion on the table is to give this ability to 2 of them (including the only one that gets any real benefit from the melee-enhancing AAs anyway - beastlords, since they melee) - it seems logical to grant this to necros, too. Otherwise, you're placing necros down with enchanters and druids and shadowknights on the pet class scale, which I think is wholly wrong. Necros rely on their pets just as much as beastlords or mages do. No, their pets aren't supposed to be as good - they aren't, if you haven't noticed. They don't get as much versatility, they can't tank as well, etc. The addition of this ability for necros would not change this - it would simply keep them on the upper tier of pet classes, where they should be.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Raherin: I agree that suggestions on what AA to dump are best left to the beastlords. And it's important to note that Pet Enhancement wouldn't be a bst boost directly--it would be a path of beastlord advancement, which is a very different thing.
What? What does the flavor of a specific ability have to do with "putting necros down with enchanters and druids"? Of the three, beastlords are the only ones without legless pets, and that matters just as much.
Joudas said:
What? What does the flavor of a specific ability have to do with "putting necros down with enchanters and druids"? Of the three, beastlords are the only ones without legless pets, and that matters just as much.
Joudas
Dalayan Adventurer
That statement was in response to the argument that Necros' pets are not meant to be up on the same tier as beastlord / mage pets. What I meant was:
"If you don't give necros a pet ability that you're giving to beastlords and mages simply on the basis that their pets are not meant to be up on the same tier, you're effectively saying that they should be on the same tier as enchanter / shadowknight / druid / shaman pets [the other classes that would not get the ability]."
I'm not saying that they should be given the ability purely on this basis, merely that this isn't a valid reason why they shouldn't.
"If you don't give necros a pet ability that you're giving to beastlords and mages simply on the basis that their pets are not meant to be up on the same tier, you're effectively saying that they should be on the same tier as enchanter / shadowknight / druid / shaman pets [the other classes that would not get the ability]."
I'm not saying that they should be given the ability purely on this basis, merely that this isn't a valid reason why they shouldn't.