The "Six Man" Policy hassle..

sabuti

sabuti

Dalayan Elder
Ruins of First City - The entirety of the Tarhyl area, everything past bloodfires, is now 6man only (including Rohk and Elders). No 7th man rezzing or buffing will be allowed past bloodfires.

Guys... What is the reason for doing these things. No matter what change you do, no matter what is considered 6 man, all you're doing is making the game less enjoyable and more of a hassle for players.
We as the players will ALWAYS, ALWAYS buff before every 6 man in the game no matter what, so long as it remains the spell that it is. And i'm sure all of you are aware, i'm not just speaking on behalf of my guild. To the devs who play I know you and your guildmates do it also, whether it be in athica or before the "six man" area. Now, everyones buff bots are going to be a sivyana pledged beastlord camped in the sivak area of first ruins. Now we're going to have a wiz loaded and ready to power port players back to FR to get back before repops. See what i'm saying?

I really don't see or understand the problem that is trying to be fixed... but changing the 6 man flagged areas of zones NEVER EVER works and makes NO SENSE. I'd really like to see some staff feedback regarding this as making the game more of a hassle really just does not make sense to me or anyone else. Players will get the buffs they want before every 6 man in the game till the end of time even if Halas is the only place it can legally be casted. Change Cunning of the Beast and Savagery completely if your desire is to prevent players from having it on 6 mans, because all other efforts will be completely in vein, forever.
 
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The problem we are trying to fix with this policy change is that a certain group of players (You know who you are!)seems to think it is a good and acceptable idea to clear the trash of a 6man, then grab some short lasting buff they do not have in group (read: Cunning of the Beast) and kill said 6man, and/or use a 7th toon not a part of the "kill group" to rez, just because the corpses are reachable from the other side of some arbitrary line.
SPOILER: Neither of these actions are acceptable, and both will be punished accordingly.

EDIT to make this more clear: Noone runs a BST in EF to the point where the actual wings start to get cunning for MT/MK/MB. Why anyone thought this would be acceptable for Rohk contrary to EF nameds is the real question.
 
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Does this change affect one's ability to duo/4-man the trash for pages?
Does this 7th member "out of group" rez-bot/buff bot also apply to people there simply to farm pages?

"No 7th man rezzing or buffing will be allowed past bloodfires."

Case A:
1 person 2boxing has a rez-bot camped out (3 characters total) and this person dies out to rebuff/sell occasionally.
This is still allowed, correct?

Case B:
A group of 3 people 2boxing, or a magical group of 6 real people (if that ever happens) and a rez-bot camped there for rebuffs
while farming trash.
Not okay now, correct?

Also in regards to the following: "Ruins of First City - The entirety of the Tarhyl area, everything past bloodfires, is now 6man only (including Rohk and Elders)."
The bloodfires are Tarhyl pleged so this is ambiguous. Does this mean that everything past the Advisor Favug building is now the claim zone or that everything
starting from Rohk trash and ending at the elemental princes of fire by the PoFire zoneline is?

Any clarification would be welcomed greatly. I have no problems with this change; I want only to see the rules expounded upon.
 
Case A:
I'd recommend to have the rezbot invited into your group. In that case, he would be a part of your group (even camped out), and rezzing would not be an issue. Rezbot not in group might go either ways, so better take the 2 min to log it in and group it.

Case B:
Big fat NO, and jailtime if this happens.

Clarification: Everything past that shattered gate in front of the tunnel that leads down to Rohk building is the claim zone. So anything past Favug building, basically.
 
i dont understand why people who have played this game for a million years still don't understand this rule. its literally been in the game for 40 million years.

You're not allowed to buff or rez with characters while on your 6 man adventures if that person is not in your group / if your group is full while in or around 6 man zones.

IE:
When going to kill monsters in cmal it is ok to buff while outside of the zone because lake is not considered a 6 man zone. This is ok.
When killing monsters in cmal it is not ok to buff with a 7th character at any time. Each wing is considered a 6 man therefore no soup for you.

When wanting to kill monsters that have claws and are commanders it is ok to buff in citadel with however many characters you / the group have because the zone is not considered a 6 man. It is even ok to buff / do shit in dreadlands (see below for exception)

When wanting to kill monsters that have claws and are commanders it is NOT ok to buff when ontop of the platform where the commander of claws resides. All buffs and recess must be done members of your group.

Finally - stop crying #prayforshardsofdalaya
 
Don't export a rule and it would not change. The rules remain simple take 6 people kill small monsters to get to the big monster use those same 6 monster slayers to slay the super monster none of this lets camp a dude here to Rez us or let's go kill a mob for special advantages none sense . You know the rules I know the rules
 
Nebi said:
You're not allowed to buff or rez with characters while on your 6 man adventures if that person is not in your group / if your group is full while in or around 6 man zones.
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I think the rez portion of this argument makes sense. And I agree that it's theoretically simple, but "While in or around 6 man zones" is incredibly vague. Imo, the root of the issue is the short term buffs, aka savagery/cunning, not the zone rules. If these short term buffs didn't exist, the "where is it allowed for a 7th member to rez" question is much easier / more logical to follow. There's too many situations I can think of where bst buffs present awkwardness:
-Bst buffs in Lake Starfall before 4.3
-Bst buffs in Remnants/Murk before FG
-Bst buffs on the floor of shadowdale, aka non-6man area.

I agree this is an issue, but instead of making awkward rules where you have to push your 6-man crew 1 zone out before engaging.. why not just fix the short term duration bst buffs, aka the root of the issue?
1) Reduce the cast time /recast / mana cost / duration of savagery(and reagent)/cunning so something like 1 minute duration where it's not feasible to use in 6-mans.
or
2) Make the bst buffs poof when not in raid/group with a beastlord (and probably increase the duration). Might be a coding nightmare?
 
Pecannius said:
I think the rez portion of this argument makes sense. And I agree that it's theoretically simple, but "While in or around 6 man zones" is incredibly vague. Imo, the root of the issue is the short term buffs, aka savagery/cunning, not the zone rules. If these short term buffs didn't exist, the "where is it allowed for a 7th member to rez" question is much easier / more logical to follow. There's too many situations I can think of where bst buffs present awkwardness:
-Bst buffs in Lake Starfall before 4.3
-Bst buffs in Remnants/Murk before FG
-Bst buffs on the floor of shadowdale, aka non-6man area.

I agree this is an issue, but instead of making awkward rules where you have to push your 6-man crew 1 zone out before engaging.. why not just fix the short term duration bst buffs, aka the root of the issue?
1) Reduce the cast time /recast / mana cost / duration of savagery(and reagent)/cunning so something like 1 minute duration where it's not feasible to use in 6-mans.
or
2) Make the bst buffs poof when not in raid/group with a beastlord (and probably increase the duration). Might be a coding nightmare?
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Its basically to force you to bring beastlords.

I just dont understand why people cry about beastlord buffs when they arent required yet dont make the same argument for enchanter ones. I think they need to change beastlord buffs similar to those of enchanter ones so this doesnt continue to keep happening.
 
Nebi said:
Its basically to force you to bring beastlords.

I just dont understand why people cry about beastlord buffs when they arent required yet dont make the same argument for enchanter ones. I think they need to change beastlord buffs similar to those of enchanter ones so this doesnt continue to keep happening.
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Un nerf crystalis wtf
 
Nebi said:
I just dont understand why people cry about beastlord buffs when they arent required ...
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Gotta feed that Min Max addiction bro, how am I supposed to enjoy those big numbers without savagery?

Also I accidentally clicked "report"on your post meaning to click "quote" sorry if you get banned forever.
 
This is simple. Honestly, the old rule was stupid.

The way that buffing/ressing is intended is you take care of what you need, head to your encounter, rebuff as needed with what you brought, deal with deaths by getting a resser out or reclearing, and call it a day. What people were doing is using a loophole to park a buffbot or rezbot outside an arbitrary and stupid line. So basically you could have short-duration buffs (like Cunning) without the hassle of actually bringing that class. Want that buff? Great, I agree. Bring a BL. If it's not necessary, don't bring one.

This had gotten way out of hand, as is so often the case. People were abusing the shit out of this, and we got sick of hearing complaints that it was skirting the whole intent of 6 man encounters. We agreed. That's why it was changed.

Honestly, the spirit of the rules, I think, is pretty clear. Half the shit people do doesn't even occur to me, because it feels scummy. Having effective 7th people in a group is scummy. This ends that.
 
Pecannius said:
I think the rez portion of this argument makes sense. And I agree that it's theoretically simple, but "While in or around 6 man zones" is incredibly vague. Imo, the root of the issue is the short term buffs, aka savagery/cunning, not the zone rules. If these short term buffs didn't exist, the "where is it allowed for a 7th member to rez" question is much easier / more logical to follow. There's too many situations I can think of where bst buffs present awkwardness:
-Bst buffs in Lake Starfall before 4.3
-Bst buffs in Remnants/Murk before FG
-Bst buffs on the floor of shadowdale, aka non-6man area.

I agree this is an issue, but instead of making awkward rules where you have to push your 6-man crew 1 zone out before engaging.. why not just fix the short term duration bst buffs, aka the root of the issue?
1) Reduce the cast time /recast / mana cost / duration of savagery(and reagent)/cunning so something like 1 minute duration where it's not feasible to use in 6-mans.
or
2) Make the bst buffs poof when not in raid/group with a beastlord (and probably increase the duration). Might be a coding nightmare?
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Agreed. These situations are by and large just symptoms of the way buffs work.

Fixing the root buff problem would forgo the need for these types of rules. These piecemeal rule changes (rule changes that require you to follow the forums or face punishment- what fun!) are a hassle for players. Stop trying to fix the game with draconian forum posts. Middle duration (arbitrarily defined as 2-30) buffs are just the worst because they invite this kind of 7th man behavior. Buffs in general need an overhaul, and without going too far off on a tangent about how devs should:

-implement Combine Supremacy either as a simple bp/legs combine = clicky OR T10ish encounter with "i'll trade you that bp/legs and drop from encounter for this here inventory clicky" quest
-combine the shaman relic stat buffs into a single buff and give shamans a better (relic) pet
-a bunch of other stuff

I think Pecman is half right with #1:

Make Savagery a temporary buff, specifically:
Cost 450 -> 200ish
Cast 3.0 -> 2.0
Duration ticks 120 -> 10 to 20
Recast time 360 -> depends on ^
Reagent can go away because reagents are a dumb artifact from another game

and make Cunning a proper The Four fearing buff:
Cost whatever -> higher
Duration whatever -> add a 0 or two [add a zero or two to all non-temporary buffs]
 
Taryth said:
This is simple. Honestly, the old rule was stupid.

The way that buffing/ressing is intended is you take care of what you need, head to your encounter, rebuff as needed with what you brought, deal with deaths by getting a resser out or reclearing, and call it a day. What people were doing is using a loophole to park a buffbot or rezbot outside an arbitrary and stupid line. So basically you could have short-duration buffs (like Cunning) without the hassle of actually bringing that class. Want that buff? Great, I agree. Bring a BL. If it's not necessary, don't bring one.

This had gotten way out of hand, as is so often the case. People were abusing the shit out of this, and we got sick of hearing complaints that it was skirting the whole intent of 6 man encounters. We agreed. That's why it was changed.

Honestly, the spirit of the rules, I think, is pretty clear. Half the shit people do doesn't even occur to me, because it feels scummy. Having effective 7th people in a group is scummy. This ends that.
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My point is, that I and everyone else on the entire server is still going to run from rohk, all the way to sivak castle, cast cunning, then run all the way back down to get around these rules. This change does nothing but make the game more of a hassle and a pain in the ass. Until you remove/rework the spell all you're doing is making useless changes that make this game less fun.
 
It'd probably be better to just put a foot down and either:

1) Make cunning/savagery last as long as other buffs so this isn't as big of a problem (and lets be real, most outside 6 man buffing is savagery and cunning).
2) Make cunning last such a short time it's impractical to cast it without the BST either being in the party or being a slam dunk case of 7-manning content and jail city.

I know what solution I'd pick.

Fero might still be a problem as a long term buff but how many beastlords are saying 'dang, I sure love having to keep mental notes with other beastlords about who I'm casting cunning/savagery on and having to constantly adjust to remember who has it or keeping a notepad handy'
 
sabuti said:
My point is, that I and everyone else on the entire server is still going to run from rohk, all the way to sivak castle, cast cunning, then run all the way back down to get around these rules. This change does nothing but make the game more of a hassle and a pain in the ass. Until you remove/rework the spell all you're doing is making useless changes that make this game less fun.
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see the problem with this thinking is that you're just going to get that buff ruined and it wont be able to be cast out of group. Swapping characters while on 6 mans for buffs will get you dealt with just the same (if you get snitched on)
 
My point is, that I and everyone else on the entire server is still going to run from rohk, all the way to sivak castle, cast cunning, then run all the way back down to get around these rules. This change does nothing but make the game more of a hassle and a pain in the ass. Until you remove/rework the spell all you're doing is making useless changes that make this game less fun.
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I find it odd you think everyone else cheats like this.

I'm sorry if the change makes it harder to cheat. Wait, no I'm not.

see the problem with this thinking is that you're just going to get that buff ruined and it wont be able to be cast out of group. Swapping characters while on 6 mans for buffs will get you dealt with just the same (if you get snitched on)
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Precisely. Good thing we don't log either.

The solution is simple. STOP CIRCUMVENTING RULES. 99% of this server plays fairly and gets along. But you want to call this out and make it a big deal? Be my guest. This is NOT a common occurrence, despite your saying so.
 
Nebi said:
see the problem with this thinking is that you're just going to get that buff ruined and it wont be able to be cast out of group. Swapping characters while on 6 mans for buffs will get you dealt with just the same (if you get snitched on)
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there is literally no reason to keep it the way it is if it's not legit to cast it outside of 6 mans. 20 mins of spell damage for some exp? lol. Also note i never said anything about swapping characters in for 6 mans; running out of bloodfires would be anything goes, which is the flaw of all the rules
 
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