The Immortal

Manguadi

Manguadi

Dalayan Beginner
The Immortal
5ac 20hp 20mana
35 sv all
effect: death pact

As it is, this item is situational in the extreme. Being situational and usually bagged is fine, however it's also substantially weaker than Clockwork's other loots, and is only marginally better than the Vexed Choking Device.

This is IIRC

Vexed Choking Device
12ac -20hp -20mana
-5 to some stats
30sv all.

Let's ignore the stat reduction and compare these two items if we calculate their total value based on relative aug numbers.

The Immortal gets 15hp from 5ac, 20hp from 20hp, 10hp from 20 mana, and 175hp from total resists, giving it a grand total of 220hp value. Vexed Choking Device gets 36hp from 12ac, loses 30 from hp and mana, and gets 150 from resists, for a total of about 156 if we don't count stats (and I think this is fair because I believe stats on augs are wildly overvalued relative to other augs). Let's compare this to another of clockwork's loots, Blackmetal Robe.

Blackmetal Robe
68ac
Mana Con 7
Effect: Superior Circle of Healing (combat)
some stats
195hp 185mana
20 fr 20 cr
5 mind shield 5 stun resist

For a total of 531hp, not including mana con, the proc, or the mind shield and stun resists. I realize that this item is a little more rare from clockwork, but it was the quickest for me to recall and at least gives a sense of the itemization disparity here.

Both the choking device and the immortal are wildly situational, and extremely powerful when usable. However, on the majority of fights either is usable, you receive the benefit of one, perhaps two of the resistances it gives. I think this should contribute to its overall quality, since most items, like the blackmetal robe, are full of itemization value that you use every fight.

I do not think the resistances should be improved or the proc changed, but I do believe it should be less of a penalty and should be closer in itemization to other of clockwork's loots, and it should no it be so close to the vexed choking device. My specific suggestion is that the item have its hp and mana increased to 100. This would bring it much closer to an item like the blackmetal robe in "overall" quality, and also encourage its use not only when resistances are necessary, but also when they are just helpful.

I think this would go a long way towards turning the immortal into a desirable and swappable piece of gear, rather than a "fight x" piece of gear.
 
Tbh it's an awesome piece of resist gear, to me it could just use at least as much AC as the PoT Vex. ; but comparing a neck specific item to an awesome - and rarer it seems - chest seems inappropriate. You overlook the pure stat increase over pot neck , but also the death save clicky (I heard it saved one of our monk a few times, although I don't dare say it's game breaking).
would be a joke to start playing with such a toy imo, so long after it's been implemented.
 
In all honesty i think if clock work would drop all the items he can drop 10 times only one item would rot less then the immortal so I think its pretty much good as it is.
 
I have to agree that The Immortal is good as-is. Not all loots are intended to be anything more than marginally situational, like the drum from ToT chests that both snares and gives a massive attack buff (throw more daggers!) which is so situational there's really only one fight in which a bard might consider using it.
 
As an item designer I see the longevity of use inherent in such a situational item to vastly overshadow the fact that it is not as immediately useful as his "normal" drops.

Sure you might want a blackmetal for that tier - but the resists on that thing will be useful in Ikisith and beyond. An argument could easily be constructed that over the long term getting 5 Immortals would be much, much more beneficial to a guild than getting 5 blackmetal robes.
 
Exactly. I would much rather have an item I can use forever, than one I will replace in a few tiers. This item is fine as is, and I think every high end raider wants one.
 
Hmm well we killed clockwork last night. Two out of his three loots were immortals. You guessed it nobody was like woohoo!!! OMFG immortals!!! It was more like hey we got one good drop and two really bad drops. Nobody would send their names in on it. We just turned it into a game to ease our being bummed out. Everyone rolled and whoever won was "forced" to loot it hehe.
 
I really don't know what to say if you don't think Immortal is a good item, especially for that tier and above.

(as far as saying it is rot status)
 
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Waldoff said:
An argument could easily be constructed that over the long term getting 5 Immortals would be much, much more beneficial to a guild than getting 5 blackmetal robes.
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I think you are putting way too much stock in situational resist gear and I would enjoy reading a well written argument on this because there are many many things to consider including at the tier it becomes useful you are trading some really impressive neck slots for marginal resist upgrades also a lack of resist based raid encounters among other things. Obviously an extra ~150 hp is not going to do you any good if you cant resist the spell in question but its still a straw man argument either way.

Nodnal said:
I really don't know what to say if you don't think Immortal is a good item, especially for that tier and above.

(as far as saying it is rot status)
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The item is situational at best - I can literally only think of one place where i'd use it and that place doesn't apply to 99% of the other players on the server. For my cleric - there are almost no situations where I will trade 2 ft and 150 mana for an extra 35 MR/FR and as far as cr pr dr (lets face it, these resists are borderline useless). The way I see it sure its nice/fun to have but the rate it drops is really annoying. I will admit that I still wish I had one. This is probably one of very few items on SoD that will NEVER rot but it still wouldn't be impressive if it came off of Astatine.
 
Waldoff said:
As an item designer I see the longevity of use inherent in such a situational item to vastly overshadow the fact that it is not as immediately useful as his "normal" drops.

Sure you might want a blackmetal for that tier - but the resists on that thing will be useful in Ikisith and beyond. An argument could easily be constructed that over the long term getting 5 Immortals would be much, much more beneficial to a guild than getting 5 blackmetal robes.
Click to expand...

Makes sense, but the total number of fights on which this item is useful is still fewer than the month I used his wristband. I don't think it's fair to say that the number of days this stays in a bag counts for as much as the number of fights you wear a blackmetal robe for. This is particularly true for classes that aren't monk.

The Immortal is still just an alternative to the Vexed Choking Device. It's too much harder to get for this to be reasonable.
 
I agree that it drops far too frequently. It really does need a little more oomph ya know? Its just a horrible sight to see it drop instead of a blackmetal robe, entropy, the kingfisher band, shooting starmetal ballista, or even that crappy head item.


Too bad that clicky isnt DB right? lol
 
I think the main issue is that most classes can not afford to give up their neck item in most fights for the marginal resists, for melee dps most necks have at least a small attack bonus and stats which if they get rid of for resists makes their dps go down which in turn makes the fight last longer which negates the entire point on an ae heavy mob. The same goes to any caster or healer when 1 extra nuke or heal is way more important than resisting an ae. Frankly the only ones I can see ever needing this is those who are way behind the resists of their other guild members for some reason.

In my opinion the only thing on it worth anything is the death save, its just never worth losing the ft/mana/hp/ac/attack on most other necks for resists especially when on most fights you only need a single resist so at most your only getting a mild bonus in which case it would be better to have sets of diamondine augged with different resists(magic,cold,fire)

Another important point is that at that tier most monks/tanks have their important resists all capped and even most melee dps hit the resist cap with a potion/pot4.
 
Maethorr said:
Another important point is that at that tier most monks/tanks have their important resists all capped and even most melee dps hit the resist cap with a potion/pot4.
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This makes me think that you have no idea on how resists work. There is no cap to resists, there is only a cap to what client shows (500). Resists > 500 do not show client side, but they count for resist checks & resist check modificators.
 
Important?

I think it's also very important to point out that the vexed choking device has a LIMITED amount of classes. and is not a peice of equipment everyone can have and bag.

Maybe it was overlooked, but i distinctly remember necro not being able to use choking device, as i wanted one for pulls.

EDIT: After looking, necro is the only class not on choking device. So, disregard my comment. immortal is only better for necros :/
 
As far as intcasters go it is actually currently a sacrificial slot on any fight with an ae tbh. But necks tend to be pretty lackluster for casters compared to other classes.
 
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