Thazeran Revamp

Sateru

Dalayan Beginner
What about the great rank 7 focus affects for toons? Mana con 7 for a cleric is not easy. Heal 7 besides Vah shield? Not easy either.

UC has pretty much every focus effect a cleric could want besides healing inc. There is a mob in pofire that drops healing 7 item that is always up.

But if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

The whole point of the removal was because it was broke.
 
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Xenion

Dalayan Adventurer
You mean Maysun? Thats heal 6 on that ring I thought. And yeah I wasn't really thinking JUST clerics when I wrote that. Alot of the caster gear has rank 7 focus's as well. Yes it's all available in other zones but with a COMPLETE removal of Thaz your gonna see competition for those specific items and targets to skyrocket.

P.S. I hate Undercity. Just saying.
 

Sateru

Dalayan Beginner
Gorzenath, although the Maysun ring is also really good. Druids and Shamans actually have it pretty easy with healing 7. CW and HHE both drop healing 7 chests.

Competition was always really bad in LT though so it would just be moving to other zones. I'm pretty sure more people would love Undercity if they spent some actual time in there.

Ohhh you meant Gorzenath...........yeah I dunno many people who have ever killed him.
Which is a shame because he's one of the best fights on that tier.
 
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garry

Dalayan Beginner
This is probably a tired topic by now, but...

What about the great rank 7 focus affects for toons? Mana con 7 for a cleric is not easy.

Yea tbh The cleric thaz pants, AND the LT water mini shoulders were MC7 items.
The alternatives are now UC Shield from Ganlak, Folerit, Redsun's Belt,
Melek Taus's back, and the Final vah banner for MC7 focuses afaik.
The only realistic ones for most people being the UC shield and Folerit's belt
which suffers a loss of 2 ft when compared to most on tier shields/belts.
IE for shields: Brimstone buckler(rip), 4.2 shield, yclist shield. FT 2 on each.
IE for belts: Soulspike(rip), Pofrost general's belt, ip ulaz's belt. FT2 on each.

So this will definitely make caping FT and maintaining mc7 hard in the future.

Heal 7 besides Vah shield? Not easy either.
Which hi7 were you refering to? Only hi7 I can think of in thaz would be druid arms,
and LT air mini ring.
Alternatives are Vah tmap shield(conflicts with mc7 from uc now too lol), Gharontosh gloves in ip,
Jaldjarimar, the HHE bp, and one of CW's bps, off the top of my head. Of those 2 are cleric usable.

I'm against thaz's removal as well. I don't think that the fact that there are
other targets up to kill justifies removing thaz; nor do I think that many problems
were caused by thaz's existence.

If it was hard to develop content around thaz's tier because thaz made it unnecessary
then.. well maybe that's the problem it wasn't necessary to make content on it's tier
anymore. The fact that there has been targets up even after thaz's removal on-tier shows that.

If thaz makes you not want to develop content, try developing for a tier that needs it,
IE t10+ where there's only a handful of zones.
 

darksabbath

Dalayan Master
Thaz should be brought back, but with a key required to enter, instead of a port spell. Porting there never made much sense to me anyways. Perhaps a quest to open it up, like Undercity requires?
Thaz was pugged because it was fairly easy to get too, and because the trash isn't as tough as some other zones on tier. None of the surprises that UC trash has, or the massive ae's you see so often in ToT.
 

huey

Dalayan Elder
Gorzenath, although the Maysun ring is also really good.

We've taken Gorz down at least ten times I'd say and have never seen it that I can remember. (not that I care, heh, just sayin...)

I'm pretty sure more people would love Undercity if they spent some actual time in there.

Or get sick to death of it because it's what's always left up, lol...
 

Chakekik

Dalayan Adventurer
It seems to me that the real problem is thaz armour itself. The armour is incredibly easy to get and is extraordinarily good especially when you stick the augs in.

Perhaps a better solution is to have thaz armour stop dropping and shift it so that the mini/boss each drop 1 loot and the boss has a chance to drop a 2nd. I think this would keep certain items in circulation while helping dev's create new content because they don't have to balance over having every focus effect easily obtainable through thaz armour.

I realize that this might limit options in respect to focus effects, but I believe the idea is that you should have to work to have them all and may have to suffer with some lesser gear until the point you can get the proper focus effect. I also don't believe this would create a shortage of focus effects, as there are plenty of other items with said focus effects (only ones I'm not really sure are Companion Health/Strength).
 
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Obscenitor

Dalayan Elder
I am in complete agreement that Thaz caused design problems, as there was no reason to design any other content at that tier due to the mob density/reward of doing the zone. But I honestly think that the primary cause of this problem was thaz armor itself not necessarily the zone. If you look at spires, there are 14(?) bosses, you could argue that having that many bosses makes the zone too densely populated but really you only get 1 item per kill so it doesn't negate the need for supplementary content (inner sanctum / innerer sanctum / helize questline)

I think a better solution might have been to leave Thaz in but get rid of thaz armor as a primary drop, shuffle some of the loot around/introduce a few new items maybe and then make the reward for each mini/boss 1 loot with a chance for an armor drop per boss kill much like spires each mob has a chance to drop a class bracer.
 

robots

Dalayan Beginner
p.s. Sorry this might be OT.


I think one of the best elements of any MMORPG is competition, it is a dynamic that you will find in any game that has a solid community. Good games will accentuate that competition element.

Oh I agree completely. If it wasn't for competition I would have quit EQ in about 2000 and never been back to an MMO since. It was the competition that drove me on.

Although in the context of raiding, I never liked the cock block mechanic of guilds being able to get in to some raid content first and that stopping others. The competition in a game (imo) should be about skill and ability, both of each individual player and of the guild leaders. The ones who 'win' should be the ones who can manage to eventually beat the hardest encounters, and their competition should be left thinking, "Bastards! How did they beat it?!" Not, "Bastards they are in a better time zone / got off work early / have no jobs/life" and therefore got to monopolise the raid content.

I always thought that SoD was extremely good at this though, FAR better than any other MMO I've played. I remember in EQ it all got a little ape for a while, and my server came up with a calendar for guilds to schedule raids... How freakin boring and business like is that? It was around that time when I quit, for good.

With games like WoW, they just instanced everything, which is nice for letting people play the game when they want to play. But the problem with WoW though (imo) is that it's so easy, everyone can achieve everything anyway. So there is no real competition because the game is completely accomodating, as long as you put in the time, you'll eventually have everything.

I think the ultimate solution is a middle ground. Have either instancing or so much raid content that cock blocking is not an issue. Every guild can raid something good at any time that suits them. But the content needs to be really hard. Weird scripts that spawn adds, reflect spells, blast people across the room etc... proper encounters that guilds need to be clever about and learn how to win. At that point it's a "may the best guild win". That's my memory of SoD raiding too. The guild I was in was number 3, hot on the heals of the number 2 on the server. There was a lot of rivalry but I loved it. To me that is what gaming was all about, and no other MMORPG has achieve that same thing.

Shadowbane had potential but... oh well.
 

Xenion

Dalayan Adventurer
^------that. Nerf the drop rate for LT. You did it with Farhags. People bitched but they moved on. Removing Thaz as a whole is a bit more dramatic then just lowering the loot reward for the zone.
 

Moraelintz

Dalayan Elder
Just my 2cp but the Thaz armor was not that easy to get it all came down to luck. I raided Thaz hard, very hard for over three months and did not see a single class gem so I could upgrade a piece of Thaz armor for the focus effect (boots for csi) it is very possible and I did progress with a minimum amount of Thaz gear even on tier.
 

jew_nose_it

Dalayan Master
Thaz armor is class required for some classes like rogues and rangers to Min/max properly and buy higher tier charms. Although with the new refugee augs this is now not as big a problem. And it also filled best in slot haste items for monks and rangers unless you can kill MK or UC boss.

I never had a problem with class gems, it was essences that were harder to get since guilds always have a back log of armor that needed upgraded because the armor is so crucial.

Anyways I feel like redoing all the boss fights/pulls/trash mechanics and drop rates would really make the zone better again. As it stands now the fight strats are known to 99% of the raiding server and are really not hard at all. UC strats are a lot more punishing, LT you can power through easily. Something other than pull these 3, mez 2 kill this one before it splits/putts out adds that blow up/etc. If you have a competent enchanter SK its just not hard. Anndddd I'm rambling...

TLDR: make thaz harder with new boss fights and make the trash not so easy to blow through with ringers. Also make thaz armor drop from UT minis only and make it harder to get to.
 

Moraelintz

Dalayan Elder
Another suggestion might be to move them to lower populated/raided zones. Move the lower bosses and minis to plane of earth, water, fire, and air some somehow place them where there will be some time investment into clearing. Have essences added to trash there, and bring back upper and have essences and gems drop there so in order to get the upgraded armor have to do upper for gems. I do not see anything wrong with upper the way it was was a solid 1.5 - 2 hour clear for 1 mini and 1 named, about on par with most of ToT when on tier.
 

Nasbin

Dalayan Beginner
Removing like a third of all lower-end T8 targets is cool and all? but saying, don't worry "woldaff will replace it" is about as honest and genuine as saying Wiz will return from exile with the armies of heaven at his back, tomorrow. Woldaff couldn't even finish that shit in remnants and that was just some 6-man content.

Since January the whole of relevant non-fwf content I've seen added to the game has been bounties, and even that was broken and incomplete for months, something tells me "thaz" wasn't the reason. I mean maybe bloog will save us with the next cmal but I Kind Of Doubt It

*I left out Nadox because I think we're all trying to forget it ever happened.
 
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stral

Dalayan Elder
Since January the whole of relevant non-fwf content I've seen added to the game has been bounties, and even that was broken and incomplete for months, something tells me "thaz" wasn't the reason. I mean maybe bloog will save us with the next cmal but I Kind Of Doubt It

*I left out Nadox because I think we're all trying to forget it ever happened.

Problem a: fwf completely farms out their tier

solution a: add higher tier content
result: fwf goes off and kills new content

solution b: don't add higher tier content
result: fwf kills every raid mob in the game gearing up alts because what else are they going to do, it's not like a group of the most dedicated playerbase is just going to retire

-----------------------------

Problem b: bored dev wants to create something

solution a: create something
result: I don't like this content added that affects me.
result: Why was this not perfect immediately upon being released?
result: Why do they get new content and I don't even though I did?

solution b: become too dismayed at the playerbase through posts like yours to want to create something in the future
result: more posts like yours (Stop now! It's recursive!)

------------------------------

problem c: you didn't create anything for me, for no reason, that I liked

solution a: complain
result: NULL
 

Salarus

Dalayan Master
So, I know this is a bit lolz, but what are clerics supposed to do about HI7 past IP, pre Jhald now? This is my major concern, that a lot of focuses need to be added to other gear to be honest. Skill mods as well.
 
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