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[Nuncio]

You do realize that the server has been down a lot recently because the staff is UPGRADING the game by putting pathing in. :brow:

No, I think he's right. Wiz and crew and purposely fucking with people that play when he does, and specifically, him. Theres nothing wrong with the servers, and no upgrading being done to make the SoD world more fun to play in. It is clearly a direct attack upon PhatPlats person, and he should stop paying because they arent actually working on anything when the server is down.

 

[Wiz]

Re: No Play No Pay

I'm ceasing my donations... atleast for now...

Due to the fact that the server downtimes always seem to be at peak playing times for the vast majority of players.
It almost seems like someone is planning the patches and what not to occur when most people want to play.

Most people probably just cut it off without saying why, but I feel like if I do, and maybe if some others agree that this is why they stopped donating, something will be done, maybe.

The "Wiz is always right attitude" is fine if he can afford to pay for it all himself, but when the donators can't get online
for an entire 3 day holiday weekend, for something that probably could have been done in increments, perhaps early in the morning when the majority of the players are not online, or done prior to (during the weekday) or later, just NOT
on a 3 day weekend, a holiday here, yes in America, but the vast majority of the SoD players are in the US, and we become disenchanted.

Flame away if you want to be an a$$... I'm not going to bother checking for rebuttals, just wanted to throw this out here.

I'm just being honest, doing more than just cutting off funds without an explanation.

Yeah man I can pay for it myself if I don't stay up until the morning hours to scheudle patches because of the time difference and don't keep track of american holidays. God knows that you should never have to suffer an eight hour patch for something that took me weeks upon weeks of unpaid work to create. :roll:

Good riddance - I don't want your money and I hope you quit the server.

 

[Alistar]

pfft

That's not a great attitude towards a fellow donator dude
An explanation would go further than telling donators to FK off.

Maybe if we knew what the patches were for we wouldn't get all bitchy about them and stop donating.

It's not bad to ask questions or answer them.

It's called communication and some of the staff suck at it. They pretty much say "dont like it ? get the fk out".

Eventually everyone will say "oh really fk you cya pay for the sht yerself"

/shrug

 

[calaran]

He's not making money off of this. He puts in a TON of hours to do this. And then he gives you the game for free (you choose to support it monetarily), and now you're complaining that he's doing work on the server when it's inconvenient to you guys? I admit, it's frustrating when I want to play but cannot... if I was that upset about it, I'd go start paying the mandatory fees to play that other game and deal with the fact that nothing ever gets changed/fixed there, but that I can almost always get on.

I cannot believe that people are seriously complaining that they chose to support something that is given to them for free (with an appreciation for those who DO try to help with the financial burden) and that the service isn't always available 100% of the time.

 

[Alistar]

ggg

He's not making money off of this. He puts in a TON of hours to do this. And then he gives you the game for free (you choose to support it monetarily), and now you're complaining that he's doing work on the server when it's inconvenient to you guys? I admit, it's frustrating when I want to play but cannot... if I was that upset about it, I'd go start paying the mandatory fees to play that other game and deal with the fact that nothing ever gets changed/fixed there, but that I can almost always get on.

I cannot believe that people are seriously complaining that they chose to support something that is given to them for free (with an appreciation for those who DO try to help with the financial burden) and that the service isn't always available 100% of the time.

Well, number one, unless you're his "buddy" how do YOU know how much time Wiz really puts in to do this?
Number two the game is not free, it's just free of monthly charges. Alot of games are.

He has said in the past if we dont get enough "donations" the server will not be up.

This means Wiz can't keep the server up without donations.

I just expected a little more respect from Wiz to donators cause one was honest.

And yea, if my hobby entertains others for free, but a bunch of people give me money for it to help out with my expenses,
guess what, I'm gonna listen to them and try not to do stuff that will make them not want to keep giving me that money.

/shrug

 

[Nuncio]

Re: ggg

And yea, if my hobby entertains others for free, but a bunch of people give me money for it to help out with my expenses,
guess what, I'm gonna listen to them and try not to do stuff that will make them not want to keep giving me that money.

/shrug

You mean, try not to do stuff like update the server with new content, pathing, fixing broken stuff, making the game more fun, spending time refining existing content, and other such worthless things? 'Cause not doing those things sounds like a fantastic idea.

 

[Wiz]

Re: ggg

He's not making money off of this. He puts in a TON of hours to do this. And then he gives you the game for free (you choose to support it monetarily), and now you're complaining that he's doing work on the server when it's inconvenient to you guys? I admit, it's frustrating when I want to play but cannot... if I was that upset about it, I'd go start paying the mandatory fees to play that other game and deal with the fact that nothing ever gets changed/fixed there, but that I can almost always get on.

I cannot believe that people are seriously complaining that they chose to support something that is given to them for free (with an appreciation for those who DO try to help with the financial burden) and that the service isn't always available 100% of the time.

Well, number one, unless you're his "buddy" how do YOU know how much time Wiz really puts in to do this?
Number two the game is not free, it's just free of monthly charges. Alot of games are.

He has said in the past if we dont get enough "donations" the server will not be up.

This means Wiz can't keep the server up without donations.

I just expected a little more respect from Wiz to donators cause one was honest.

And yea, if my hobby entertains others for free, but a bunch of people give me money for it to help out with my expenses,
guess what, I'm gonna listen to them and try not to do stuff that will make them not want to keep giving me that money.

/shrug

Good for you. Fortunately you don't run this server, and I severely doubt that you ever could. I put in a massive amount of work into it, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask in turn that players deal with what probably amounts to a five-six hours of downtime a month on average.

 

[Foma]

Clue: Aeran and I just put in 40 hrs in the last 5 days, staying up til the wee hours of the morning (after a full day of work for me). And I believe, most weeks, wiz outperforms me by far.

Can we stop the stupidity about how much time it takes, eh? Get a clue and/or make your own server. This really gets old.

 

[Alistar]

Re: ggg

NM

You're too busy kissing Wiz's ass to understand

I didn't say don't patch, I was talking about the times the patching is done.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the "peak" times are to schedule around that.

All you guys wanna do is argue so :finger:

 

[Tempus]

Re: ggg

And yea, if my hobby entertains others for free, but a bunch of people give me money for it to help out with my expenses,
guess what, I'm gonna listen to them and try not to do stuff that will make them not want to keep giving me that money.

/shrug

You mean, try not to do stuff like update the server with new content, pathing, fixing broken stuff, making the game more fun, spending time refining existing content, and other such worthless things? 'Cause not doing those things sounds like a fantastic idea.

Try a little harder to kiss Wiz's ass if you want, but you have missed every point I've made, such as the SPECIFIC TIMES the patches are done, you moron.

I never said don't patch.

idiot

While name calling is a wonderful approach on the play ground for a group of 8 year olds to settle a dispute, quit doing it here.

 

[Nuncio]

Re: ggg

And yea, if my hobby entertains others for free, but a bunch of people give me money for it to help out with my expenses,
guess what, I'm gonna listen to them and try not to do stuff that will make them not want to keep giving me that money.

/shrug

You mean, try not to do stuff like update the server with new content, pathing, fixing broken stuff, making the game more fun, spending time refining existing content, and other such worthless things? 'Cause not doing those things sounds like a fantastic idea.

Try a little harder to kiss Wiz's ass if you want, but you have missed every point I've made, such as the SPECIFIC TIMES the patches are done, you moron.

I never said don't patch.

idiot

Fuck you you tool. Wiz will tell you I'm far from his favourite SoDer. I don't need to kiss ass. It wouldn't do any good.
So yer basically saying that Wiz and Crew, who are largely European, should do patches when they are doing important stuff like working, going to school, and other things that are included in being a responsible adult.
Don't be fucking stupid. Or, quit being fucking stupid, I should say.

 

[Tempus]

Re: ggg

And yea, if my hobby entertains others for free, but a bunch of people give me money for it to help out with my expenses,
guess what, I'm gonna listen to them and try not to do stuff that will make them not want to keep giving me that money.

/shrug

You mean, try not to do stuff like update the server with new content, pathing, fixing broken stuff, making the game more fun, spending time refining existing content, and other such worthless things? 'Cause not doing those things sounds like a fantastic idea.

Try a little harder to kiss Wiz's ass if you want, but you have missed every point I've made, such as the SPECIFIC TIMES the patches are done, you moron.

I never said don't patch.

idiot

Fuck you you tool. Wiz will tell you I'm far from his favourite SoDer. I don't need to kiss ass. It wouldn't do any good.
So yer basically saying that Wiz and Crew, who are largely European, should do patches when they are doing important stuff like working, going to school, and other things that are included in being a responsible adult.
Don't be fucking stupid. Or, quit being fucking stupid, I should say.

While i support your right to defend yourself. Please do not throw fuel on the fire by using inflamatory language in situations like this. It will only server to derail the thread. Unless you are posting something in a direct relation to the topic of this thread, I would suggest not clicking the sumbit button. This applies to everyone.

 

[Aeran]

Re: ggg

every point I've made, such as the SPECIFIC TIMES the patches are done

Patches have to be be supervised, tested, fixed, retested, etc etc live (done during the server downs). Its not as simple as saying, oh well this seems to work locally, I'll schedule a patch at xx time when its good for everyone, because patches working locally does not mean they'll work live. If this were the case, sure, Wiz could 'schedule' patches to occur when most players are offline. But however you have to keep in mind that he has a life of his own. I'm afraid these past few days have been a sort of anomaly, more often than not there is barely any server downtime, we've just been implementing huge things that could easily go wrong. So, alternatives to current procedures:

1. We schedule patches at times convenient to most of the players, unsupervised. If and when patches are buggy, the whole server is down until someone finds out what is wrong, tests, fixes, retests, etc etc (there will probably be time between something going wrong and someone even finding out, since its unsupervised).
2. We convince Wiz to schedule his life around SoD more than it already is (if possible), have him and others stay up all night debugging patches while the playerbase sleeps, and even then patches may still take a while to be implemented.
3. We dont patch.

ps. you dont need to be Wiz's 'buddy' to know the amount of work he and others put in. All you have to do is log into the game and check it out for yourself

 

[AsmiusSoD]

I can't say I agree with anything anyone has said here 100%, but the one thing SoD managment is lacking is the basic communication skills and respect for your fellow gamers. We are all gamers at heart here, and when a person is not shown any respect they react. My wife and I were playing SoD for about a month, and we even were trying to sit through the "patches" without complaints. But when some high on their horse GM or whatever can take a pot shot at me for asking a polite question, call me an idiot and than kick me cause they have the "power" than all I can do is take what I was gonna donate to SoD and reactivate our old EQ accounts, maybe the "customer service" is not as good on EQ, but at least we are "allowed" to ask questions and think for ourselves. I am sure I will get a good ridance post from the managment or whatever, but I wanna state, you cannot treat people like crap and all and expect everyone to say, yea give me more!!

By the way, thanks Foma, since you kicked me, I reactivated 3 EQ accounts, we started raiding again, and EQ seems new again!!!!!

 

[Tempus]

I can't say I agree with anything anyone has said here 100%, but the one thing SoD managment is lacking is the basic communication skills and respect for your fellow gamers. We are all gamers at heart here, and when a person is not shown any respect they react. My wife and I were playing SoD for about a month, and we even were trying to sit through the "patches" without complaints. But when some high on their horse GM or whatever can take a pot shot at me for asking a polite question, call me an idiot and than kick me cause they have the "power" than all I can do is take what I was gonna donate to SoD and reactivate our old the Game accounts, maybe the "customer service" is not as good on the Game, but at least we are "allowed" to ask questions and think for ourselves. I am sure I will get a good ridance post from the managment or whatever, but I wanna state, you cannot treat people like crap and all and expect everyone to say, yea give me more!!

By the way, thanks Foma, since you kicked me, I reactivated 3 the Game accounts, we started raiding again, and the Game seems new again!!!!!

Have fun. Bye! :hug:

 

[rab]

This thread makes me sad on a lot of different levels.

1) People don't take the time to follow some basic rules that are laid out.
2) People don't appreciate the amount of time put into the server
3) People forget that we are not mindless robots but real, live people

There are times when sometimes we're a little mean or a little uncaring, but you have no idea how many times we've dealt with stupidity and it gets old after a while. Just like you don't want to be treated like shit, we don't want to be either, and we respond in kind. And yes, asking a question like "when is the server going to be up, please?" is still treating us like shit -- why? You didn't take a few minutes to read some simples rules. That's simply lack of respect for the thousands of man-hours put into SoD.

Also, what a terrible thread this is.

 

[Wiz]

Quite frankly, I treat players as I am treated. I respect players who will follow the rules and try to be understanding of the limitations of an all-volunteer team and non-professional server. We don't have test servers, so we have to instantly patch major bugs as they appear. We don't have the best hardware in the world, so when something like pathing goes in it will need live performance testing and tweaks. We don't get paid, and thus can't scheudle our lives around the server, we have to scheudle the server around our lives.

I can't drop out of class so that you don't have to suffer half an hour of patch time during "peak hours", and suggesting that I somehow just decide to patch when people are online for shits and giggles is frankly insulting. I never like to patch when there's a lot of people online, but if the alternative is wracking lag, leaving a big bug in, or simply not getting the new needed code in for days, I am going to patch.

Furthermore, the patches lately are completely because of pathing - building pathing from the limited 3D skeletons we have is an incredibly time consuming task that requires constant tests and tuning, and I've made very clear during all these patches that it is pathing related. The code is nearing completion, after which things will go back to normal.

If you honestly, seriously think that SoD has an unreasonable amount of downtime per month, or that the staff owe you giving up sleep so that you can always play, then you're simply not rational nor reasonable and frankly I don't see why I should extend any respect whatsoever to you. I can very much understand that the downtime is frustrating, but it's also necessary.