Tank Comparison Formulas

[terr281]

Issue: With many different factors contributing to a tank's ability to "not take dmg when tanking," I want to know what others' opinions on "comparison formulas" are. When a newer guild has many tanks of "roughly equal" equipment, the issue probably comes up regularly. This is the situation that has been/will be occurring in my guild soon.

In the class top 5 thread, this issue is spread across many pages with differing opinions. Just trying to get an organized set of the information. With HP being a good "baseline for comparison," I am posting the formulas I have extrapoliated from various posts...as well as including some others for "discussion."

A: 1 AC = 3 HP

B: 1 DR = 10 HP (If not more, since this is one less dmg from every hit. Many hits in the course of a battle, especially with numerous enemies.)

C: 1 Stamina (Before soft cap of 280 (305 with AAs)) = 3 HP (Due to increased dmg mitigation.)

D: 1 Stamina (Post soft cap of 280 (305 with AAs) by using Hidden Strength AA) = 1 HP <Will be the above comparison divided by 3.>

E1: "Use of shield (Where block skill is used) vs. Duel Wielding, if...
a. Agro generation from the offhand weapon for warriors is NOT included. (Only ability to take dmg.)
b. A Warrior's /shield ability is NOT included.
c. The stats, AC, and other benefits of the weapon and shield are assumed to be equal."
E2: 1 AC = ? HP

F1: (Does a shield's AC calculate into the effectiveness of "blocking" dmg? If so, how much? If it does scale, then how much "benefit" does the shield user get for a shield's AC over a duel wielder with an offhand weapon with the same AC?)
F2: 1 AC = ? HP

G1: (Does having an offhand weapon allow a duel wielder to parry/riposte more hits? If so, how much? Does any characteristic of the weapon, such as delay, matter? What benefit does this bonus to the Parry/Riposte skills add?)
G2: Offhand weapon = ? HP

H1: <The controversial one.> (How much of a bonus does a warrior's /s12 constant mitigation stance add versus a sk or paladin?)
H2: ? HP

<Have to get back to work now, if anyone thinks of any other information that should be added.>

 

[Wesell]

E1: "Use of shield (Where block skill is used) vs. Duel Wielding, if...
a. Agro generation from the offhand weapon for warriors is NOT included. (Only ability to take dmg.)
b. A Warrior's /shield ability is NOT included.
c. The stats, AC, and other benefits of the weapon and shield are assumed to be equal."
E2: 1 AC = ? HP

250 block skill with maxed Shielding Mastery will allow you to block somewhere in the range of 8% - 9% of hits that go through other skills. See below for an explanation of blocking.

F1: (Does a shield's AC calculate into the effectiveness of "blocking" dmg? If so, how much? If it does scale, then how much "benefit" does the shield user get for a shield's AC over a duel wielder with an offhand weapon with the same AC?)
F2: 1 AC = ? HP

Equipping a shield gives the wearer block skill in the amount of the shield's AC (including augs) x 2. Shielding Mastery will boost this skill level by 50%. The block skill works exactly like the parry skill: it allows you to completely avoid a melee attack from the front. The AC from shields also reduces the amount of damage done by each hit like any other AC.

G1: (Does having an offhand weapon allow a duel wielder to parry/riposte more hits? If so, how much? Does any characteristic of the weapon, such as delay, matter? What benefit does this bonus to the Parry/Riposte skills add?)
G2: Offhand weapon = ? HP

No, the chance that these skills will work is based on the skill level.

1H1: <The controversial one.> (How much of a bonus does a warrior's /s12 constant mitigation stance add versus a sk or paladin?)
H2: ? HP

A guess: 180 AC or so. Your warrior should be using /s 9 on any hard hitting mobs.

Your warrior should also be using a shield whenever a mob enrages, when he is tanking one of a two-pull (should also be /shielding the other tank if you can keep the mobs close together), and any time a fight requires the DPS to switch to other targets leaving him time to build aggro. A shield can also be used on pretty much any fight after a bit of aggro building.

 

[terr281]

Updated: Wesell's Info inputted

A: 1 AC = 3 HP

B: 1 DR = 16 HP (Reason for change: If 1 hit point is "saved" per hit, using the assumptions in F of 4 successful hits per tick and 40 ticks of combat, 160 HP are saved per fight, but less effect to the maximum HP. Thus, I divided by total by 10.)

C: 1 Stamina (Before soft cap of 280 (305 with AAs)) = 3 HP

D: 1 Stamina (Post soft cap of 280 (305 with AAs) by using Hidden Strength AA) = 1 HP <Will be the above comparison divided by 3.>

E1: <Shield Block skill with Shielding Mastery 3> (Assumption: Shield of Freeport with aug = 57 AC for a paladin, and a Deepmetal Shield with augs = 45 AC for a warrior/sk.) <<If someone knows of different and easily available shields that a T1-2 guild can acquire with higher AC for purposes of this comparison, please name the item(s) please.>> (Using the calculated info from Wesell's post ... 375 Block skill = 8-9% of all hits missing /// 44 Block skill = 1% of all hits missing.)
E2: (Paladin): 168 Block skill = ~4% hit avoidance = 192 HP
E3: (Warrior/SK): 135 Block skill = ~3% hit avoidance = 144 HP

F: (In reference to the calculated E2/3 numbers.) What assumption should be used for "% of number of hits avoided = average dmg not taken = average max hp for comparison"? (My assumptions for calculations: Average mob hit pre-mitigation = 300, 4 actual hits go pass dodge/parry/riposte per tick, a fight with a mob takes 4 minutes = 240 seconds = 40 ticks, 40 ticks * 4 hits per tick of 300 = 48k dmg taken with no block skill, 1% hit avoidance = 480 HP, divide by 10 per reason in B.)

G: 1 Recovery = 3 HP

H1: (Warrior stances over Hybrid, controversial) <Using the calculated info from Wesell's post ... 13.8 AC = 1% mitigation>
H2: Warrior /s12 = (13.8 * 13) 180 AC = 540 HP (For constant non-stamina usage)
H3: Warrior /s9 = (13.8 * 23) = 317.4 AC = 952 HP
H4: SK /s6 = (13.8 * 10) = 138 AC = 414 HP
H5: <Note: Paladin stances not included since none of their stances give an increase to pure mitigation.>

 

[Wesell]

That's a pretty decent formula for comparing tanks I think. I want to point out that you don't really need to include under-cap stamina because it will already add to raw HP, which is implicitly the base tank power value at use because all the other values are being converted to HP.

Out of curiosity what are you planing to use these formulas for? Intra-guild comparisons for fun or something?

 

[terr281]

That's a pretty decent formula for comparing tanks I think. I want to point out that you don't really need to include under-cap stamina because it will already add to raw HP, which is implicitly the base tank power value at use because all the other values are being converted to HP.

Out of curiosity what are you planing to use these formulas for? Intra-guild comparisons for fun or something?

(About under cap stamina.) True enough.

(Intra-guild comparisons.) Fun, no. Comparisons, yes. Due to the classes and equipment levels of the various tanks of the guild at the moment, looking for a "template" to apply to see who should be the general MT in most encounters. (This, of course, barring mobs with special abilities that require a certain type of tank.)

Thanks for the help. If anyone else wants to throw in a suggestion to change the general information, feel free. (I know that the Combat Agility/Lightning Reflexes AA line, as well as Weapon Shield AAs, are not included. But, those would weigh in a situation where a HP near tie occurs.)