Stormforged/Draconic change request

[phroggonalog]

as per this thread:
http://shardsofdalaya.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15286

dealing with the armor from these quests:
http://angrygamer.net/sodwiki/index.php?title=Stormkeep(Giant):_Armor_Quests
http://angrygamer.net/sodwiki/index.php?title=Draconic_Armor_Quest

Making a post addressed to the devs to say these turn in quests are outdated and should be changed accordingly. As they stand, it does not seem worth the effort to farm pieces for the first tier armor rewards; the scenarios are:

A) the would-be farmer is too low of a level to farm pieces effectively
B) the farmer is high level and has access to far better gear

The current trend is to get the first tier armor and bank it until faction is achieved to gain second tier armor; tradeskilled armor is not the only reason for this, as tmap rewards also outpace the quest rewards.

It would be much appreciated if a change could be made; though understood that these first tier armor quests are not as major as, say, the Ikisith project going on, I think that players <60 would appreciate it

A few ideas:
A) simply beef up the armor's stats on all fronts
B) tweak the stats of a few certain pieces; for instance, platemail cloak has *zero* hp, but the chainmail cloak has +35hp.
C) eliminate the armor rewards entirely, and change the rewards into stackable tokens, or gems, or something to slot into the second tier armor rewards
D) make the quest armor pieces drop in more zones, at a lower level -- as it is, stones are relatively easy to get, while armor is rare off of mobs in DN, save dragons (also in miel c...who wants to fight undead frogloks, anyone?)

arguments for/against appreciated, thank you!

 

[iaeolan]

Response to C)

Tokens or other reward items would not alleviate the problem as much as simply removing this stage in the armor all together. Simply make Ornate require and Aged piece and DHK/SE gems. I'm sure we can all agree that compared to these pieces, gathering the tradable gems is trivial and can be discarded

 

[Kirin Folken]

2 options I see here...

Remove the 1st tier armor quests (useing the Armor drops on ornate now vs 1st Tier).

Or

Having the armor and Gem drops shift down a bracket from were they drop now. This might see more people wearing/useing said armor then currently.
(say zones like Meil B, Deep in Hidden Temple Yaralith, Deep in Paw etc)

 

[Dzillon]

D) make the quest armor pieces drop in more zones, at a lower level -- as it is, stones are relatively easy to get, while armor is rare off of mobs in DN, save dragons (also in miel c...who wants to fight undead frogloks, anyone?)

OK I love you dude but there are quite a few zones when they drop - although you will unlikely rarely see what you are looking for, thanks RNG. DN also DHK, MielC also Siren's Grottos. And might be a few other spots. And I wanna fight undead frogs no problem.

And why the hell remove the first tier amor ? it's been on forever. I don't rememeber any complaints until now. Sure it's outdated, if there are similar slot armors with very different stats it's probably not intended , when you see the final evolution of these they're usually very close but made sensible according to the class set.
Beef it up a little so it can compare to some lower tradeskill items like mithril or stuff like that, would be a good option. But keep in mind the first gems are easy to get (damn it comes off tmaps even !!!)

EDIT: about lower gems, it won't drop in Yaralith or Paw for Lore reasons simply. So shouldn't be any more spots than Frostfang (make them drop in GD EW WW if they don't drop there already maybe ?) and Mielech (lore reasons). Doesn't apply for another spot though but uh I don't know alll reasons of the devs.

 

[phroggonalog]

I'm a fan of your posts on the forums, Dzillon -- here are my responses to what you said:

there are quite a few zones when they drop - although you will unlikely rarely see what you are looking for, thanks RNG. DN also DHK, MielC also Siren's Grottos. And might be a few other spots. And I wanna fight undead frogs no problem.

DN and MielC were mentioned already; DHK and SG brings the number of zones up to 4. The argument is that **for the level at which the first tier armor would be useful**, NONE of these zones are feasible for farming pieces, unless the player has a higher level main. I imagine there are many more zones in which the armor pieces drop; and I also imagine that none of these zones are level-suitable. As for the undead froglok thing...do you want to fight them at 57? Or under 57, even -- since @ 57 I have no desire to wear any of the first tier armor, as the gear from tmapping has been easier to get and better...let me tell you, undead frogloks are a B****at levels under 60!

And why the hell remove the first tier amor ? it's been on forever. I don't rememeber any complaints until now.

Complaint sounds so negative; I think of the OP as a criticism, with suggestions attached. The quests are in no way FUBAR -- just in need of a little change. Also, there haven't been complaints or criticisms because it is far easier to purchase better armor and forget about the whole thing.

Sure it's outdated, if there are similar slot armors with very different stats it's probably not intended , when you see the final evolution of these they're usually very close but made sensible according to the class set.

Why make only the final evolution sensible? The request for change, in any case, deals only with the first tier armor rewards

Beef it up a little so it can compare to some lower tradeskill items like mithril or stuff like that, would be a good option.

No disagreement here

But keep in mind the first gems are easy to get (damn it comes off tmaps even !!!)

EDIT: about lower gems, it won't drop in Yaralith or Paw for Lore reasons simply. So shouldn't be any more spots than Frostfang (make them drop in GD EW WW if they don't drop there already maybe ?) and Mielech (lore reasons). Doesn't apply for another spot though but uh I don't know alll reasons of the devs.

Gems are easy to get, period, in terms of zone offering and the ability to buy them off of players AND vendors (one can find them all the time in athica/at merchant athica ent in gfay). No need to make changes to gem availability.

 

[Ikaa|LoveYums]

I highly doubt ornate armor (which the BP/Legs are clicky hp/resist buffs) are going to be "bumped down" and be the reward for a 3/4 part droppable turn in.

 

[Xardon]

Aomi and I were discussing this earlier, and we were tossing around different ideas and thoughts on this whole progression. Though I think someone like Zaela would be best to comment on it since she has a very good grasp of the SoD item balance. Either way here's what Aomi and I thought:

Armor Tiers, top down:

1. Combine
2. Ornate Stormforged/Draconic
3. Stormforged/Draconic


1. Combine - Most people highly desire Combine because it is the best of it's tier, of course. However, this tier of armor is very good for helping your guild farm the tier it drops in (OP/IP, even somewhat beyond). Certain slots are far better than others (BP, Legs, Cloak) so most people do not even bother with full sets. It seems that for such a long quest, and the rarity of gems (until you get to the IP side of things) that most of the armors tend to go to waste. Good part about it, is item variety from killing named and farming upgrades. Bad part about it, why even bother having them when no one will ever work towards them.

2. Ornate - Gems required are farmed ONLY in NDHK/SE. By the time most people get these gems and upgrades, the items are outdated. All of the pieces are inferior to Tradeskilled items. Most people save the gems or upgrade to Ornate and either bank then gear or hang on to the BP/Legs just for clicky effects. Outside of that they seem to get minimal use. Ideally this tier should be used as a stepping stone to HELP you farm SE/NDHK, similar to how Combine helps you farm OP/IP. It is around this tier that TS items, I believe, should start to not be as good as raid quality gear. You also need to achieve ally faction with the side you pick, which can be quite time consuming.

3. Stormforged/Draconic - First step to the progression chain, the bottleneck for the desired pieces is the drop rates for them in general level 65 exp zones (high 50's). The targeted tier of gear should be just below/beginning stages of SK/DHK (E/W). Because of how easy it is to get the gems for it, the faction and the Aged/Torn pieces are the only time consuming aspect. Even the faction for this stage is not overly difficult. The current gear may be good enough as a starting point to help a guild begin to farm these tiers.

Thoughts and Suggestions:

If any balancing is going to be looked at for these sets of armor, I would hope that Tradeskillers be kept in mind, as I do not want to see these armors get rebalanced to the point where it kills the TS economy. If rebalancing of the Ornate section happens, I think it should be somewhat difficult or time consuming almost equal to that of what someone tradeskilling spends. Quested armors cost no money, in fact because of the factioning you have to do to attain them you actually gain money doing it, so there must be a time sink to balance it in regards to the DM TS line.

To bring the Ornates up to the tier they would be most used in there would have to be either rebalancing changes to existing armor, or another level to each of them. An example I came up with would be as follows:

Aged Runic BP + 3 midnight pearls = Storm/Drac BP (1 aug slot)
Storm/Drac BP + 3 midnight pearls = Storm/Drac BP (2 aug slots)

Storm/Drac BP (either one) + 3 marvelous pearls = Ornate BP (1 aug slot)
Ornate BP + 3 marvelous pearls = Ornate BP (2 aug slots)

By spending the time to farm the gems, faction, etc it would give them a slight leg up on your TS equiv while not destroying the TS economy and giving players something to work towards.

Feel free to comment, suggest, shoot down any of this.

 

[Dzillon]

I'm a fan of your posts on the forums, Dzillon

<3 !
yeah I didn't really think frogs at level 57 I admit :X
And patterns drop in zones at least lvl 45+fo an armor that isn't really huge at this level. It's a little hard to find a compromise
EDIT : hasnt read Xar's comment, but I don't think the 2 augs idea is gonna get accepted for non-tradeskilled items - otherwise it's a very good suggestion.

 

[Ikaa|LoveYums]

Combine and even ornate, with its clickies, is useful in every tier beyond where you acquire it. Reason being is it stacks with most anything. No raid gear has a 400hp click buff. None. So trivializing this quest in any part is just obscene, because the items are indispensable, and SHOULD be hard to get.

If you want to suggest the lower tier quest items be rebalanced great. Theres plenty of instances where old content is untouched because the items that drop there are way below comparable tiers. But suggesting the quest be trivialized in any way is just asking for handouts.

 

[Tempus]

To me the Ornate BP / legs are pretty fine as is. Even if they are not a stat upgrade when you attain them the clickies are always valuable.

The other ornate items could use some tweaking. Potentially to add focus effects that are 1 lower than what is on Dropped items in NDHK / SE. (ie. since you can get HI5 from raid encounters in NDHK slap HI4 on a random piece of ornate chain / plate / leather) If you are on tier to be raiding in NDHK / SE then you aren't farming trash for gems without at least 2 groups, and since the trade-skilled armor sets do not have any focus effects this would provide to ornate that you can not get from TS armor.

 

[iaeolan]

But suggesting the quest be trivialized in any way is just asking for handouts.

I may be missing this, but I don't see any requests to trivialize or "bump down" armor sets.

The suggestions I see are to completely remove the first armor tier or improve the existing stats slightly

 

[phroggonalog]

I may be missing this, but I don't see any requests to trivialize or "bump down" armor sets.

The suggestions I see are to completely remove the first armor tier or improve the existing stats slightly

This is indeed the case, along with the suggestion of making the *tier 1 no drop pieces* more available to the appropriate levels

Speaking of which, I've mostly seen talk from the gm department about tweaking the tier 2 rewards a bit...so what about tier 1?

 

[Ikaa|LoveYums]

I may be missing this, but I don't see any requests to trivialize or "bump down" armor sets.

The suggestions I see are to completely remove the first armor tier or improve the existing stats slightly

actually it was something you said in the discussion thread that i misinterpreted.

Carry on.

 

[Gawain]

You keep using MielC and stating it has to be undead frogs, which I dont understand at all. I see a LOT of drops from the bard area (live frogs only). I've seen plate BP, chain legs, and a truckload of smaller pieces from the bard area. So for the sake of your argument for MielC do not claim it has to be the undeead frogs.

 

[phroggonalog]

my mistake -- i assumed that since id seen no drops going the east path (plenty of live frogs there), and only drops off of undead going central, that it was the undead that would drop pieces.

REGARDLESS: who actually spends ample time in miel c who would use those pieces to wear the first tier armor.