Some suggestions

[3shirtlessmen]

I finally got my first toon up to 50 and I thought it may be beneficial to the devs to hear my opinion on the process.

For what it is worth - I've developed games for the last 6 years and I love SoD for the dedication and excellence the staff has showed (and the game itself!). It is inspiring. I feel I have at least some grasp as to what makes playtime enjoyable and also worth returning to play again. My following suggestions shouldn't be game changing at all - merely some rounding the edges for a more pleasant experience. If "development staff" is an issue, I'm willing to donate my time.

It would be convenient if there were more nooby quests for XP only. Simple quests that would help direct where to level and assist the grind. Kill 20x of this creature offers 1.5x xp of whatever those kills were worth. That would speed up the grind and give some massive satisfaction for the time investment. These exist to some extent but more coverage / repeatable quests would help.

Spells : I'm sure this has been brought up time and time again, so I'll only voice my thoughts to add to back the following opinion - Some spells are entirely worthless or their purpose isn't clear. Leveling up to next spell level become a real bummer when I realize nothing is that helpful. Most everyone I talk to about this agrees that there could be improvement.

Examples? - as a necro (If a reason against these is that other classes are worse off and thus necros don't need adjustment, well, remember that the devs probably are not compensated for their work and this is by interest only. I don't mean to make any classes BETTER per-say, but more predictable and intuitive.)
Endure spells - You get them early on and hardly use them until late game but then someone else probably has a better spell so why bother? To add some convenience, why not pack all endure's into 1 spell?

Damage shield at 16 - a necro in melee even at this level with aggro is nearly always certain doom. It would be much better for this DS to apply to pets.

More predictable DoTs - variation is nice and fun - sure but sometimes we get no DPS increase at a new level (level 20 - the damage are very case specific and not very probable so they go unused). Having at least 1 DoT that gets upgraded EVERY SPELL LEVEL would be some consistency and something to look forward to.

Instead of encouraging people to two-box since the noob population is underpopulated, why not make it a tab bit easier to solo? For example, you could create NPCs that would give out buffs to only certain level segments (similar to the healer). To get buffs, you would have to kill blues - reds and you could turn in something in exchange for buffs (SoW, DS, AC, HP, KEI, etc). I'll be in Athica and ask for buffs with compensation and I'm ignored (no big deal but it shows that you cannot always rely on people), or guildies are offline / busy.

Encourage taking breaks. The obvious solution is similar to WoW's "rest" XP, and could be implemented like zone bonus. Took a break for week? 50% XP for 10 kills? Yeah, good time spent away!

Thoughts?

 

[JeffroCakes]

Spells : I'm sure this has been brought up time and time again, so I'll only voice my thoughts to add to back the following opinion - Some spells are entirely worthless or their purpose isn't clear. Leveling up to next spell level become a real bummer when I realize nothing is that helpful. Most everyone I talk to about this agrees that there could be improvement.

In-game spell descriptions on the scrolls would be nice. However, I think that may be a client restriction. There is always the wiki to look up what spells do though. Anytime I play a caster, I check what spells do what. If I'm short on plat, I buy the most useful ones. Will there be ones that are almost never used? Of course. That's just the nature of spell casters. I can't remember the last time I memorized True North on any of my characters that can cast it, but I'm sure there are people who do.

Endure spells - You get them early on and hardly use them until late game but then someone else probably has a better spell so why bother? To add some convenience, why not pack all endure's into 1 spell?

This isn't feasible at all. Spells usable by multiple classes use the same spell. Different classes get different endure/resist spells and get them at different levels. So to do you suggestion, ever class would need to get completely unique endure/resist spells. Plus, for classes like cleric and enchanters, this would be overpowered as they could be able to raise all 5 resist types with one spell.

Damage shield at 16 - a necro in melee even at this level with aggro is nearly always certain doom. It would be much better for this DS to apply to pets.

I always saw Banshee Aura as a little extra damage in case I got hit. However, shadowknights also get this spell. If there is no druid or mage in group, the extra 12 damage done to the target when the get hit is a bit of a boost.

More predictable DoTs - variation is nice and fun - sure but sometimes we get no DPS increase at a new level (level 20 - the damage are very case specific and not very probable so they go unused). Having at least 1 DoT that gets upgraded EVERY SPELL LEVEL would be some consistency and something to look forward to.

While I agree with the lack of new DPS spells for a necro at level 20, spells for pretty much ever class become fairly predictable. For necro DoTs, fire=medium damage, medium length, poison hits hard but not for long while disease is the other way around.

Instead of encouraging people to two-box since the noob population is underpopulated, why not make it a tab bit easier to solo? For example, you could create NPCs that would give out buffs to only certain level segments (similar to the healer). To get buffs, you would have to kill blues - reds and you could turn in something in exchange for buffs (SoW, DS, AC, HP, KEI, etc). I'll be in Athica and ask for buffs with compensation and I'm ignored (no big deal but it shows that you cannot always rely on people), or guildies are offline / busy.

Healers will give you a hp/ac buff. I'm not sure if it scales with level or not. There are various "wandering druids" that will cast SoW on you for a plat. Also, the shaman guilds in Halas and Oggok will cast Scale of Wolf and some other spells on you as well. That said, I like the idea of being able to turn in some items to an NPC in exchange for some buffs. It's a neat idea that could help the 1-40ish crowd. But, the buffs available would need to be balanced. KEI would be out of the question as would Aegolism, maybe even DS. In fact, I'd suggest the buffs be a few levels lower than the person being buffed to avoid the buff bot effect.

Encourage taking breaks. The obvious solution is similar to WoW's "rest" XP, and could be implemented like zone bonus. Took a break for week? 50% XP for 10 kills? Yeah, good time spent away!

Just a word of advice, suggesting stuff to make SoD more like WoW usually isn't met with enthusiasm. In fact, it has a tendency to make you the target of ridicule and nerdrage from some people. Anyway, I don't like this idea at all. This would be tough to balance as accounts are free. I would literally be getting bonus exp on a dozen characters from this as I have a ton of them that I play sporadically. Beyond that, I don't see the point in the staff encouraging people to take a break from playing the game. I'm sure it's in WoW for PR reasons ("Look! We're encouraging people not to sit in front of their computers all day! We're doing something good!") or money making reasons (if it take you longer to do the content, you have to pay to play longer).

 

[3shirtlessmen]

Thanks JeffroCakes for your time and response!

... If I'm short on plat, I buy the most useful ones. Will there be ones that are almost never used? Of course. That's just the nature of spell casters. I can't remember the last time I memorized True North on any of my characters that can cast it, but I'm sure there are people who do.

In my opinion, that is bad and should be avoided. My idea here is to cut the fat. The issue is really that some people LOVE the fat.

This isn't feasible at all. Spells usable by multiple classes use the same spell. Different classes get different endure/resist spells and get them at different levels. So to do you suggestion, ever class would need to get completely unique endure/resist spells. Plus, for classes like cleric and enchanters, this would be overpowered as they could be able to raise all 5 resist types with one spell.

It would take some work but it is still feasible. How is it overpowered if you'll end up with the resists anyway from 5 spells?

I always saw Banshee Aura as a little extra damage in case I got hit. However, shadowknights also get this spell. If there is no druid or mage in group, the extra 12 damage done to the target when the get hit is a bit of a boost.

Agreed - it does have some purpose but it is a bit confusing for new players since it is encouraging you to personally get aggro to be effective.

While I agree with the lack of new DPS spells for a necro at level 20, spells for pretty much ever class become fairly predictable. For necro DoTs, fire=medium damage, medium length, poison hits hard but not for long while disease is the other way around.

Sure, but that wasn't really my point. Fire, poison, disease as different types of damage is great, actually. I'm saying that as character progression could be more streamlined. This is one way.

Healers will give you a hp/ac buff. I'm not sure if it scales with level or not. There are various "wandering druids" that will cast SoW on you for a plat. Also, the shaman guilds in Halas and Oggok will cast Scale of Wolf and some other spells on you as well. That said, I like the idea of being able to turn in some items to an NPC in exchange for some buffs. It's a neat idea that could help the 1-40ish crowd. But, the buffs available would need to be balanced. KEI would be out of the question as would Aegolism, maybe even DS. In fact, I'd suggest the buffs be a few levels lower than the person being buffed to avoid the buff bot effect.

All of my suggestions need refinement. Thanks for your input. Obviously balance is a vital part of what my posts hope to entice.

Just a word of advice, suggesting stuff to make SoD more like WoW usually isn't met with enthusiasm. In fact, it has a tendency to make you the target of ridicule and nerdrage from some people. Anyway, I don't like this idea at all. This would be tough to balance as accounts are free. I would literally be getting bonus exp on a dozen characters from this as I have a ton of them that I play sporadically. Beyond that, I don't see the point in the staff encouraging people to take a break from playing the game. I'm sure it's in WoW for PR reasons ("Look! We're encouraging people not to sit in front of their computers all day! We're doing something good!") or money making reasons (if it take you longer to do the content, you have to pay to play longer).

What exactly do you mean "more like WoW"? Does that mean 'easy' or 'intuitive'? One is okay in small amount and the other is good to have even in bunches.

Rest XP (or some kind) is easy to balance - put a cap on it. By 'encourage' I'm not implying that the staff posts front page items resembling "ok guys, it's time to take a BREEEAAAK for REEEEST XP!". It's a subtle, unconscious bonus. Does it exist in WoW? Yes. Does that make it a bad thing? Not alone it doesn't. Your point is well taken though - SoD isn't like WoW in many ways and differentiation is an important part of ensuring that SoD remains unique.

 

[Salarus]

It would be convenient if there were more nooby quests for XP only. Simple quests that would help direct where to level and assist the grind. Kill 20x of this creature offers 1.5x xp of whatever those kills were worth. That would speed up the grind and give some massive satisfaction for the time investment. These exist to some extent but more coverage / repeatable quests would help.

Pretty big fan of this. Coming up on multiple chars, I did the newport ones, and the NBl ones when I was playing kiters etc, but there seems to be a gap in the 10-20 range as well as the 30-50 range (i'm probably just ignorant of the existing ones of there are any, but I never came across them!) Either way, it provides a little more fun, and can direct newbies to areas they may not otherwise go!

 

[Rorne]

It would be convenient if there were more nooby quests for XP only. Simple quests that would help direct where to level and assist the grind. Kill 20x of this creature offers 1.5x xp of whatever those kills were worth. That would speed up the grind and give some massive satisfaction for the time investment. These exist to some extent but more coverage / repeatable quests would help.

Agreed. Things like plaguewind gnoll furs make those levels much more bearable.

Spells : I'm sure this has been brought up time and time again, so I'll only voice my thoughts to add to back the following opinion - Some spells are entirely worthless or their purpose isn't clear. Leveling up to next spell level become a real bummer when I realize nothing is that helpful. Most everyone I talk to about this agrees that there could be improvement.

Yeah I mean it's almost impossible to make every spell in the game useful but there are some weird ones like Fortitude for clerics which could probably easily be made into something useful.

Damage shield at 16 - a necro in melee even at this level with aggro is nearly always certain doom. It would be much better for this DS to apply to pets.

Having it apply to yourself and your pet doesn't seem too outlandish, in theory I agree it would be cool but is it worth changing? Who knows.

Instead of encouraging people to two-box since the noob population is underpopulated, why not make it a tab bit easier to solo? For example, you could create NPCs that would give out buffs to only certain level segments (similar to the healer). To get buffs, you would have to kill blues - reds and you could turn in something in exchange for buffs (SoW, DS, AC, HP, KEI, etc). I'll be in Athica and ask for buffs with compensation and I'm ignored (no big deal but it shows that you cannot always rely on people), or guildies are offline / busy.

This would be nice but it's kind of a slippery slope of convenience. What can you have an NPC offering without stepping on the group roles of actual buffing classes etc etc.

 

[3shirtlessmen]

Yeah I mean it's almost impossible to make every spell in the game useful but there are some weird ones like Fortitude for clerics which could probably easily be made into something useful.

Having it apply to yourself and your pet doesn't seem too outlandish, in theory I agree it would be cool but is it worth changing? Who knows.

Agreed. There are less obvious than grey zone ones.

This would be nice but it's kind of a slippery slope of convenience. What can you have an NPC offering without stepping on the group roles of actual buffing classes etc etc.

You make a good point, though how often do you, at level 13, have a full group with stacked buffs? Hardly ever. What about 23, 33, 43? It only incrementally goes up until 60+ when the "game really starts". As I said, these wouldn't be handouts - you'd have to earn them somehow.

 

[darksabbath]

Not all classes get all 5 endures and all 5 resists though. Many only get three of them. So they would need to remake the spells for each class with what they get.
Making Banshee aura caste and pet would be awesome sexy. Or, just make any self buff duplicate for the pet.. that's be good too.
The rest is fine, except for the "rest xp" idea. I understand your reasoning, but I have never liked that idea. As was said, that's just something to encourage alts, to make you pay to play longer. We don't pay to play, so no need to do that.

 

[3shirtlessmen]

So what's the main reasoning behind no Rest XP? --That if you want faster XP, grind an alt? If that is, I don't buy it. Rest XP is to benefit the (same) character and the player simultaneously (achievements for example, only benefit the player ).

If it is 'too much alike', then I suppose I can sympathize - tho being different for the sake of being different is quite lame, in my opinion.

 

[Mythryn]

All in all good suggestions.

I have never understood reasons not to have some sort of rested XP. It's a huge boon to casual players (believe it or not, casual isn't a bad word) and doesn't step on anyones toes at all. Not really seeing any negatives to it, but I'm sure someone will have something trite to say about it.

Edit: WoW isn't a bad word either. Yes, it has some issues with seriously spoon-feeding things to people, but it also has some very good concepts and solid mechanics, and those have definitely contributed to it's huge success. People forget to realize that WoW wouldn't have a bazillion players if it wasn't doing a number of things "right" in a large number of peoples eyes. I mean I get that everyone wants to be cool and hate on WoW but c'mon really

 

[JeffroCakes]

RE: endure/resists and 5-in-1 being OP
I guess we have differing opinion on feasibility. To me, it's something easy or likely to be done easily. This isn't. A dev would have to make sets of resist spells for 9 different classes. Also, spells are gotten at different levels within the same class because each class is better and certain resist spells. Example: druids get Endure Fire at level 1 but don't get Endure Magic until 34, by which time they already have gone from Endure Fire to Resist Fire. As far as being overpowered goes, there is a 15 buff limit. A lot of encounters (even before 65+ stuff) require choosing which buffs to have and which to pass on. Being able to have all 5 resist types in one spell would definitely throw that off balance.


RE: streamline character progression in spells
I agree entirely. I have a 61 necro, 57 druid, and 57 wiz. Out of those 3, the necro spell progression is the most bumpy. Atleast it seemed that way to me. Just wanted to point that out.

RE: WoW comment
In my opinion, I usually take it to mean making SoD easier gameplay- and content-wise. I've never played WoW though. It was just friendly advice. Some people go ballistic when they hear suggestions that, in their opinion, make SoD more like WoW even in the tiniest of ways. As for the rest exp idea, my dislike has nothing to do with it being in WoW. I just didn't like the idea. Nothing personal.

 

[3shirtlessmen]

RE: endure/resists and 5-in-1 being OP
I guess we have differing opinion on feasibility. To me, it's something easy or likely to be done easily. This isn't. A dev would have to make sets of resist spells for 9 different classes. Also, spells are gotten at different levels within the same class because each class is better and certain resist spells. Example: druids get Endure Fire at level 1 but don't get Endure Magic until 34, by which time they already have gone from Endure Fire to Resist Fire. As far as being overpowered goes, there is a 15 buff limit. A lot of encounters (even before 65+ stuff) require choosing which buffs to have and which to pass on. Being able to have all 5 resist types in one spell would definitely throw that off balance.

Agreed. Not every spell will be an easy fix. In this case, pretty tough for only a small convenience. My point stands still - some spells really need to be looked at for intuitive correction and purpose.

RE: streamline character progression in spells
I agree entirely. I have a 61 necro, 57 druid, and 57 wiz. Out of those 3, the necro spell progression is the most bumpy. Atleast it seemed that way to me. Just wanted to point that out.

Agreed.

RE: WoW comment
In my opinion, I usually take it to mean making SoD easier gameplay- and content-wise. I've never played WoW though. It was just friendly advice. Some people go ballistic when they hear suggestions that, in their opinion, make SoD more like WoW even in the tiniest of ways. As for the rest exp idea, my dislike has nothing to do with it being in WoW. I just didn't like the idea. Nothing personal.

Non-taken! I'm still curious on your reasoning.

 

[JeffroCakes]

It would be convenient if there were more nooby quests for XP only. Simple quests that would help direct where to level and assist the grind. Kill 20x of this creature offers 1.5x xp of whatever those kills were worth. That would speed up the grind and give some massive satisfaction for the time investment. These exist to some extent but more coverage / repeatable quests would help.

I just realized I skipped this in my first post. Love it. I'm always in favor of more quests. As a few others have mentioned, there a quite a few bounty quests in the Badlands. I wish there were more elsewhere that are strictly exp/cash (e.g. not gate neck bounties) for 20-50 folks though.

 

[Rorne]

So what's the main reasoning behind no Rest XP? --That if you want faster XP, grind an alt? If that is, I don't buy it. Rest XP is to benefit the (same) character and the player simultaneously (achievements for example, only benefit the player ).

If it is 'too much alike', then I suppose I can sympathize - tho being different for the sake of being different is quite lame, in my opinion.

Probably the main reason is nobody has wanted to undertake the task of coding it in. I think anything that helps players just coming back from a break or who get less frequent playtime is great.

 

[JeffroCakes]

Non-taken! I'm still curious on your reasoning.

The more I think about it, the more I realize I'm in the foggy area between dislike and indifference. I wouldn't nerdrage over it being added, but at the same time my gut is just saying it's not a good idea. syduck:

 

[3shirtlessmen]

Probably the main reason is nobody has wanted to undertake the task of coding it in. I think anything that helps players just coming back from a break or who get less frequent playtime is great.

I'll do it.

 

[Rorne]

I'll do it.

Okay but do everyone a favour and put some shirts on (also if you are serious about dev apping send a PM about it to dev slaariel with some dev idea outlines and relevant experience).

 

[3shirtlessmen]

I code best naked, sorry.

 

[3shirtlessmen]

I'd never heard of "rest exp" until a few months ago, and at this point I would worry about interactions with adventure bands. Band up chars A and B, get a ton of exp on A without logging on B for a week, then log on B to get your big band exp on top of a heft rest exp bonus. ~

edit: it would be extremely easy to code though, the db already keeps track of when you last logged off.

It would be hard to abuse if you design reasonable caps. If we are talking about 5% XP increase for, say, 1 day = 2 mobs until you drain the bonus, and a cap at 2 weeks - abuse would be negligible. 50% tax on the AB already makes it hurt a little bit.

Consider a dwindling % bonus. At a week, the first kill is 100% more XP, the 2nd is 75%, etc. There are tons of approaches, as I think WoW's remains a 50% bonus for some duration, and as you said, it's trivial.

 

[Rorne]

I'd never heard of "rest exp" until a few months ago, and at this point I would worry about interactions with adventure bands. Band up chars A and B, get a ton of exp on A without logging on B for a week, then log on B to get your big band exp on top of a heft rest exp bonus. ~

edit: it would be extremely easy to code though, the db already keeps track of when you last logged off.

Would it be possible to have the exp amount split before the bonus exp is applied? So you only get it on your own portion from the AB? I know the way exp was distributed in them was tweaked so I'm not sure if this is possible or what. Basically I know nothing!!!!!

 

[darksabbath]

Ok, my dislike of the rest xp system stems from an understanding that after awhile, it goes negative.. just like going from new zone to old zone bonus. I am a pretty casual player.. but if I get into a solid grinding day (rare, but possible), I don't want to be penalized for doing so.
As for applying the rest xp bonus, couldn't that be applied after the adventure band split, just like the new area bonus?

As for the endure/resist spells, they are what they are. The huge gap between getting the first to the last for a class, even those that only get 3 of 5, would make it tough to choose how to do it. And, as said before, it would be OP to do all 5 resists early on. Maybe a spell later, say level 50 or so, that is a combination of the 5, but for less on each than having all 5 on would be a good solution. A quest for "Protection from the Elements" would be an excellent way of adding it in, also. That way, you could have the combined buff on, but if you chose individual buffs, you'd gain more benefit at the cost of buff slots.
There is many spells that are complete hold-overs from the way live did them, the endure/resist series being one of them. I'd do some kind of replacement for the enchanter strength/rune series long before the endure/resist lines.