Skulking Visage Rogue AA.

S

sp4mm

Dalayan Adventurer
For those that don't know, it lowers the aggro generated through melee at all times.

From what I've gathered, the general consensus seems to be that this specific AA is, ehm.. how should I put it... less than helpful. (and yes, I'm not just saying that, those are actual opinions I've heard;)

It doesn't take very long to realize why it can be more harm than good half the time, so without wasting any more time I'd like to start an idea thread for a possible replacement... I've come up with a few so far, which I'll list in order of preference.


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- - Spell (or just AE) avoidance. After giving it some thought I've actually concluded that this is probably the best idea I came up with, I think it fits the class perfectly in every way. ~2-3% per rank?

- - Double backstab chance. Yea okay, or not...

- - Devastating blow of some sorts Maybe with a stun/crippling component, ultra low chance obviously due to the cost of the AA & dps balance... essentially just a toy for little rogues that weep when they think of the old backbite days.

- - Chance to stun via backstab OR critical hits.

- - Damage shield mitigation/immunity. 20/40/60/80/100%

- - Parry/Block/Riposte/Dodge strikethrough. Then again not so sure about this one, since rogues usually bypass everything but dodge anyway.
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More to come!...
 
I've never played a rogue above lvl 15 or so, but I honestly can't think of a reason why it would be bad to generate less hate, unless you want to tank (which you don't :p)

Well, now that I write this, I thought that maybe you'd want to stay above the healers (be it raid or group) and this AA puts you below them. Is that why?
 
I wouldnt buy this AA because it might only be useful in 1 situation: When you have a horrible tank.

Most high end tanks generate plenty of agro, such that I can backstab all I want and evade will cover all of my problems. To me, the important thing is agro control. To take agro when you need to by staying slightly above everyone else in the group, and slightly under the tank would be the ideal position.

I was under the impression that rogues already had a innate "skulking visage" type code, which scaled to your level. Rogues also have a style that lowers hate generation which can be turned on or off at will. I have no complaints with my current agro generation, It works fine so why buy the AA? Lets say though, that my agro generation was way too high. I would place my AA into hastened evade, and not into skulking visage. (better control.)

I like sp4mm's suggestions for Spell Avoidence, or Damage shield immunity of some kind. But, Skulking visage as is would be more useful as a clickable buff, which one could use as they needed. (I still wouldnt train, but it would at least be useful.)
 
now I dont play a rogue , but the only way I can think this would be bad is if you wanted to have a rogue tank say for a DC combo or if this aa would put the rogues on the hate list below the clerics. I have also seen more rogues mismanage hate or scream out some obsenity about evade failing/not working more than saying anything along the line of damn I dont have ENOUGH hate... :brow:
 
Failing evade is one thing, not being able to take aggro when you need it is another... my opinion still stands.
 
Whenever the tank dies, whenever an add jumps on a caster (nothing like a single backstab to pull it off, zero mez liability)... or better yet, when there IS no tank in the group.

Maybe you're underestimating how well a 6khp rogue with max combat-agility/lightning-reflexes/weapon-shield can tank... while it's not efficient at all, its more than enough to keep the group alive even vs. the hardest trash you'll encounter on WR when shit hits the fan.

Didn't think I needed to spell it out.

As it stands, this AA sacrifices one thing for another, it is not a pure gain, period.
 
So your telling me that rogues "have less agro" aa should be changed because it hinders a rogue from saving the raid if the tank dies... :brow: ...sounds like a reason to improve a tank/strat. I have yet to call upon our rogues to save the day when our MT dies LOL. IMHO rogues tanking mobs is more of a fluke than class ideal requiring a change in an aa that would appear to have more benefit to the rogue population in general that fails at evades than to cater to the "raid saving tank" rogue and the "duel client tank" rogue.
 
maddctr: As far as I know this is a thread of suggestions on how to make an AA more useful. Not a thread to criticize the way sp4mm plays. I did not expect that this would need a basic breakdown on rogue tactics, but you only want to see rogues played according to your own class.
YOU DO NOT PLAY A ROGUE!

I love how every class can be played in several ways. I recently talked to a shadowknight who teamed up often with a necromancer. Its a unique group, but they made it work well. Does every group have to have the basic tank/healer/dps make-up?

Rogues have only a handful of unique options available in terms of tactics and play. One of them is to tank and Chaotic Stab (Clearly a tanking AA.) Another could be to kite either solo (archery), or with a partner (Fear/Snare) AND another could be to group with a enchanter and melee from behind while the enchanter stuns / charms etc etc. The list can go on and on. Its basically who are you grouped with, and how can you make it work because rogues are 99% dependent on others.

The problem with the AA is that it locks rogues out of some styles of play. I often DC a rogue/druid with a enchanter friend to stun the mob. If I cannot take agro back after he stuns than I effectively lose one style of play. That the highest agro style rogues used to have (Crippling) Is no longer in game only adds to this lock down. I think a rogue with a nightjaunt would be silly....But who knows? Rogues have very little variety and content. Daggers are hard to obtain, It is near impossible to kill greens solo, there is ONE rogue quest and the poison tradeskill is possibly not even being considered!

Id like to keep what little variety playing a rogue has. And at the same time get useful AA's. Skulking visage along with Blades of Death are the only class unique abilities from the recently added PoP AA. This AA should be something special and not something I dread training because it only shows me how boxed in my class is.
 
With all due respect, Lokdar... you must open your mind to out of the box tactics, as cliché as that sounds.

What I'm seeing from you now is what I can only call prejudice, and nothing else, and it reminds me of your other pet peeve... beastlord, but I don't think I'll mix them into this discussion.

*I* have extensive experience playing arguably the #1 rogue on WR - and know what the gear+AAs can add.
*I* have extensive experience playing arguably the #1 warrior on WR - and can compare the tanking ability to rogues.

...do you? No? Then how can you compare? Or claim that it is total bull?


Simple, you cannot.
 
Let's keep our heads cool and please not turn this into a discussion.

That said, I've grouped with Vero, and he's been the tank some times. At the same time, I've grouped with Alton, and he's stolen agro, while I've been trying to tank.

My point: I agree that you might want to have rogues steal agro some times, be it to save the party cleric, or to group when there arent any tanks around, or any other reason.

However, I agree with Lok on the fact that the AA is beneficial to most rogues on the server, as long as they don't need to tank (Let's say 80%-90% of the time)

The best possible solution I can come up with, don't know if its possible is making Skulking Visage something you can turn on/off.

Just my 10 cents.
 
Ummmm this is probably being posted way to late but IMHO agro = dead rogue. My druid almost has as many hp as my Nostais and when it comes down to it if i get agro i might as will click off auto attack and lay down and die.

Pulling agro from a cleric isnt hard even with evade working 100% of the fight. THe problem is when you get it your short lived.

The only time i could think of wanting to be on a hate list is when clerics are trying to camp when a raid mob fails. Other then that let me hide all the time!

Nos
 
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