Shaman Spirit Graft Spell vs Blood Ritual tome

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
Well, I'd like to talk about the Shaman's spell/tomes on Ikisith and show how I think

Runic Spell: Spirit Graft
Increase Hit Points by 1500
Decrease Hit Points by 2500
(This spell will heal the target for a 1.5k base heal INSTANT, but will damage the shaman for 2.5k)

(Opinion, even knowing that a INSTAN 1.5k base heal, is amazing, casting more than 2 will definetly kill or steal aggro, due to low hp on any shaman)

Now lets talk about the tome: Blood Ritual
Grants an endurance-reliant stance (/s 4) in which the Shaman's DoT spells are amplified by 15 / 23 / 32 / 40% and direct healing spells are amplified by 10 / 15 / 25 / 33% in exchange for 20-to-30% of the Shaman's maximum HP per spellcast.

Well, in essence is the same idea of the spell. Giving the target a better heal, while costing the shaman's health.

Let's put in example:
A top tier shaman, with 8000 HP.
He is using his tome IV, for some extra heal, and decide to use the Runig Spell.
He will heal for a base of 2.1k, which is 500 more point than Shaman Relic (1650 base), that will heal for about 4.5k non crit heal, if he has CoP5 and some Heal Inc 6-7.

So a 4.5k Heal, amazing for a shaman. But here is the cost of 4900 HP, more than 50% of the shaman's health.

So of course you are not suppose to use them together, since they have the same effect:
Give more heal in exchange of shaman's own health

Since they have the same idea & effect, I'd like to suggest to change one of them.

Here are my suggestion:
Change the Spell to:
- Feign Death (Yes you are correct: FD)
Sure it is overpowered, but all other archetype classes get a FD, but the healers.
What I would suggest is the spell will consume 95% of the shaman's current HP
It would have a long recast time: Maybe 10-15mins to avoid abusing.

- Damage over Time that heals the group. For ages Shamans have complained that we dont get a group heal. Now we have Torpor, but that is really only usefull if the group is made only of casters or they are resting, since the side effects are devastating for any melee.
So I'd suggest to make a DoT that will do a 150-200 Damage per tick on the target and will heal the group for the same amount.
 

Nebi

Dalayan Pious Diety
if you want to be a group healer then you dont want to be a shaman. there are plenty of items that will help you do group healing when you need it. As it stands right now shamans are way OP in terms of healing. we heal a lot more than any other class in the course of a boss mob on the MT.

I invite you to watch one of our many blazewind failed attempts during phase 2 how much my shaman is healing the mt vs everyone else.

I do agree that the spell needs to be changed because everything is making the shaman have to sacrifice himself to heal which is cool but it shouldnt be the spell itself and the tome (big reason why i dont give a shit about farming 1 item to finish my runic 2). I'm doing Chicken4 at the moment and then I will work on Blood Frenzy 4 and will be able to give real feedback.

As it stands i RARELY use Bloodfrenzy 3 as it takes away too much damage from the shaman. This is something that should be looked into over changing the spell to be honest.
 

Daffie

Dalayan Pious Diety
As it stands right now shamans are way OP in terms of healing.

Maybe at the high end, but below that I don't think it is the case. I do fairly well with Galelor using relic heal while working through CoP, and I think at his level the healers are well balanced.

Thus far in my progression, I felt the point at which I can remember thinking that shaman healing was really sub par was at 65 before getting the relic heal.
 

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
if you want to be a group healer then you dont want to be a shaman. there are plenty of items that will help you do group healing when you need it. As it stands right now shamans are way OP in terms of healing. we heal a lot more than any other class in the course of a boss mob on the MT.

I invite you to watch one of our many blazewind failed attempts during phase 2 how much my shaman is healing the mt vs everyone else.

I do agree that the spell needs to be changed because everything is making the shaman have to sacrifice himself to heal which is cool but it shouldnt be the spell itself and the tome (big reason why i dont give a shit about farming 1 item to finish my runic 2). I'm doing Chicken4 at the moment and then I will work on Blood Frenzy 4 and will be able to give real feedback.

As it stands i RARELY use Bloodfrenzy 3 as it takes away too much damage from the shaman. This is something that should be looked into over changing the spell to be honest.
I do agree with you, Shamans, at least on mid/high end they are amazing healers that can sustain very long fights. Cant wait till I`m able to start workin on Taste Like Chicken Tome.


But the main point here is that the Tomes AND the Runic 2 spell are basically the same thing. And I`d like to propose a change to either one. Since tomes I imagine would be rather harder to change, then I suggested changing the spells. Since I`m suggesting to change the spell,I went ahead and suggested a few spells.

Dont know if you did a type, but the tome is Blood Ritual, I havent seen a shaman on your signeture, and I dont know how long the Top 5 on wiki havent been updated, but only 1 shaman has Blood Ritual on 3 and another on 2, and thats it.

Well, my suggestion of the group hoT, is just a minor dot/heal feedback. It isnt something that will keep a group alive, but rather, healing that annoying 15% that all group members lost due to an AoE or WW, instead spamming the Chorloshock spell 5 times.

Maybe at the high end, but below that I don't think it is the case. I do fairly well with Galelor using relic heal while working through CoP, and I think at his level the healers are well balanced.

Thus far in my progression, I felt the point at which I can remember thinking that shaman healing was really sub par was at 65 before getting the relic heal.

I completly agree with you, low tier shamans are never on par with the other healers, but thats because, in my opinion, shamans werent made to be a main healer, but more like a support class, with their amazing, buffs and slows/debuffs and a bit of heal. But what happend is:
- Gear got so good that shamans buffs are meaningless (but Rfocus)
- An enchanter could take the spot of a shaman on the debuff/slow role at any given time

We coud even change the runic 2 spells to an A-M-A-Z-I-N-G buff. Something that would raise the Dex/Agi cap, or that would give some mitigation %.
 
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Nebi

Dalayan Pious Diety
I do agree with you, Shamans, at least on mid/high end they are amazing healers that can sustain very long fights. Cant wait till I`m able to start workin on Taste Like Chicken Tome.

Yes this tome is amazing. But still you should still be able to heal a crap load without it.

But the main point here is that the Tomes AND the Runic 2 spell are basically the same thing. And I`d like to propose a change to either one. Since tomes I imagine would be rather harder to change, then I suggested changing the spells. Since I`m suggesting to change the spell,I went ahead and suggested a few spells.

I agree with you. This is the entire reason why I dont give a shit to do my Shamans runic 2. Also I think that the life that blood ritual takes away makes this tome not worth it. When you hit /s 4 you really want to do it for an "oh shit" moment which i can understand why it takes your life. But the nature of the beast is that it still has that stance cool down so you have to wait 10 seconds. So basically for 10 seconds you're like ok i healed the tank and now im the champion but let me do nothing else or else I'll die.

Dont know if you did a type, but the tome is Blood Ritual, I havent seen a shaman on your signeture, and I dont know how long the Top 5 on wiki havent been updated, but only 1 shaman has Blood Ritual on 3 and another on 2, and thats it.
I have played a shaman or two in my day. Maybe even one on the top 5. Maybe maybe I play the shaman who has Blood Ritual 3. Maybe maybe maybe I have Blood Ritual 4 in my bags but I stopped doing it to complete Chicken 4.

Well, my suggestion of the group hoT, is just a minor dot/heal feedback. It isnt something that will keep a group alive, but rather, healing that annoying 15% that all group members lost due to an AoE or WW, instead spamming the Chorloshock spell 5 times.
I think the problem lies in the way your raid leader is setting up the groups. You should never ever ever be the only group healer in the group unless its maybe the caster group. Even then you should get help because fuck casters with terrible HP / Tomes / Gear.

For the most part in the "high-end" the shaman is in the MT group with 1 cleric and the tanks + something else. I mostly spam heal the MT to help save mana for the "real" healers (clerics / druids who have to worry about group aoe damage and casting group heals suck). Now thats not to say I wont heal someone else. If we have someone in the tank group who is squishier than everyone else I will try to shock them into around the same range of everyone else. That way my minimal mana loss will make the cleric have to group heal later on the fight and help him converse his mana.


I completly agree with you, low tier shamans are never on par with the other healers, but thats because, in my opinion, shamans werent made to be a main healer, but more like a support class, with their amazing, buffs and slows/debuffs and a bit of heal.

Shamans are more "main healers" than you think. Take a look at some of my streams and look at how I go OOM on a few fights spam healing (and thats with chicken3 ((working on 4 atm)))

We coud even change the runic 2 spells to an A-M-A-Z-I-N-G buff. Something that would raise the Dex/Agi cap, or that would give some mitigation %.

I agree that it needs to be changed but to what I dont know..
 
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Gargate

Dalayan Elder
not that it has anything to do with the trading hp for mana or extra heals/damage part but the group torpor should slow spell casting as well or remove the melee slow, as is caster dps outshines melee. I figure throw melee a bone or balance the casters down some.
 

failranger

Dalayan Beginner
How many farming duos do you know that include casters, compared to farming duos that include melees?
How many casters do you know that can tank t8+ raidmobs, compared to how many melees can tank t8+ raidmobs?

There is your boon, just pick it up!
 

Gargate

Dalayan Elder
tanking isn't what a Rog is thinking about, and lets be honest here EVERYONE knows casters by default are higher dps then all melee of the same tier and no Rog is going to step in and backup tank a T12/13 raid mob with anything other then desperation on their mind nope nope.

excuse me for trying to find something/some way to throw a bone to a group of players who need there dps brought up or the casters balanced down some.
 

Dinadass

Dalayan Pious Diety
How many farming duos do you know that include casters, compared to farming duos that include melees?
How many casters do you know that can tank t8+ raidmobs, compared to how many melees can tank t8+ raidmobs?

There is your boon, just pick it up!

When I was exping my beastlord, banding him with Solo and Rada was a lot faster than using Susvain.

And melees being good at exp grinding or killing low tier raid mobs does not mean casters being better at high tier content is balanced, it just means that both aspects of the game are imbalanced and should be improved.
 

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
Well, since I can see a few people agree that the tome & runic spell from the shaman serve the same purpose and could need a change. I'd like to ask for a few suggestion into what they should change

(kindly asking to bring the conversation to the topic)
 

Ulandx

Dalayan Elder
Well, since I can see a few people agree that the tome & runic spell from the shaman serve the same purpose and could need a change. I'd like to ask for a few suggestion into what they should change

(kindly asking to bring the conversation to the topic)

Just copy over the Druid HoTs.
 

bloog

Dalayan Adventurer
a single target torpor would be nice.

we get self only ones and an aoe one. sometimes it would be nice to slap a torpor onto only one person.

also my dream shaman spell is a pbaoe slow. then i could just spam that, crippling surge, and then plaguewind all day.
 

Pecannius

Dalayan Elder
But the main point here is that the Tomes AND the Runic 2 spell are basically the same thing. And I`d like to propose a change to either one. Since tomes I imagine would be rather harder to change, then I suggested changing the spells. Since I`m suggesting to change the spell,I went ahead and suggested a few spells.

This sums it up well.
 

Thade

DINOSAUR THADE
I'd honestly change the runic before I changed the tome. The tome being situational is fine. The runic 2 is really only usable in exp/rare raid fights. doing that much damage to yourself when everything aes at high tiers is silly. Personally I always wished it was something like..

Runic: Spirit Graft
Cast time: 1.0 Seconds
mana cost: 500
Recast 30 seconds
base heal: 2.5k

Basically a giant quick heal that eats a lot of mana, and can't be spammed, but can save a tank when necessary. Similar to the current one except not a gigantic detriment in high tier raids. Might be slightly op but the base heal could always be reduced some.
 
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