Rogue Tracking?

As a rogue here and playing one on EQ live (just to 46 before I quit due to waiting around all the damn time for groups) I will say that having some sort of appraisal skill skill doesn't do much for me. Due to the roleplaying aspects of the game...different markets would command different prices (or should anyway) so the rogue wouldn't have an idea of what it's worth. I think to realistically portray knowledge about the value of items, you just have to go sell some yourself and write down what it was worth to you. Then later you know.

Also tracking I don't see as a rogue skill at all. Whereas rangers track...rogues gather information about their target beforehand. A real rogue would wait for his target somewhere or follow them to a place where they know they would be. Rogues I feel are much more specific when tracking a target and don't rely on spur of the moment information liek a ranger would.

What I DO agree with is that rogue range weapons need to be upped a little. The only options I can find are throwing daggers (because shurikens aren't stackable) and I think my max dmg I hit for with a throwing dagger at level 20 was 22...a crit. I realize a rogue's strength is in melee, but it would be nice to have another option for damage dealing.

More important is poison ability though. :) I understand that "game mechanics" come before "class mechanics", but hopefully this will coem into play soon. It wasn't super useful on EQ live (terribly expensive and extremely situational), but it was FUN to do. :)
 
First you want tracking, then you want upped range damage? Why not just create a ranger? Rogues can use archery and do more damage that way than with throwing daggers anyway. Daggers are mostly a pulling tool and nothing more.
 
icehewk said:
First you want tracking, then you want upped range damage? Why not just create a ranger? Rogues can use archery and do more damage that way than with throwing daggers anyway. Daggers are mostly a pulling tool and nothing more.
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First I never wanted tracking. Go back and read my posts.

Second - rogues ONLY crit with thrown weapons. I'm aware that I can do more damage with a bow. I choose not to, because it really doesn't fit the rogue type. Rogue doesn't = Ranger. Played a ranger on live as well. Great class, but I didn't want to play one.

Would you just want to use the basic low level crap arrows that are vendor bought? No probably not.

As for Throwing being a pulling skill....maybe for monks it is. I don't know many rogues who regularly pull for groups.

No comment on poison ability? Should the fact that I can just substitute and have a shaman bot follow me around be enough for that too?

Don't be so defensive about your ranger 1337ness with a bow. Nobody wants to take it away from you.
 
Throwing skill is important for rogues since we get an AA : assassination mastery.
With this AA u can assassinate your foe with a throwing dagger . So no , archery is not the main range skill for rogues , and yes , new throwing weapons would rock.
Nuf said.
 
I thought you implied that you wanted dmg increased with throwing as a skill. New throwing items would rock. I'm all for new items. I'm also hoping poisoning comes in soon, it'd be like rangers not fletching.

P.S. Why don't shurikens stack?
 
No no...I'm not looking for handouts in the damage department. Just maybe some more equipment options is all. Hehe...

My current partner in the game is a ranger and when we kite things it would just be nice to contribute more to the damage than 6, 9, 8, 9, 22 (crit)... that's all :)

Shurikens not stacking...I don't know honestly. Not sure if it's a bug or if it's working as intended.

I guess if smithing was implemented there might be a way to make new throwing weapons as well, so I'm looking forward to that also.
 
To seperate throwing and archery why not make the throwing skill have a much longer refresh period and give rogues backstab-esque damage with it? That way they can do some nice damage on a mob as it runs away or what not. Otherwise they can just whip out a bow like everyone else :D
 
millenimy said:
To seperate throwing and archery why not make the throwing skill have a much longer refresh period and give rogues backstab-esque damage with it? That way they can do some nice damage on a mob as it runs away or what not. Otherwise they can just whip out a bow like everyone else :D
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See I even like that better. :D
 
LuciferBlack said:
Shurikens not stacking...I don't know honestly. Not sure if it's a bug or if it's working as intended.
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Cuz there'd be too much temptation to lob the whole stack at once. :)
 
Seeing it from a better perspective

Rogues should absolutley get track at higher levels.. but not like ranger/druid tracking.

Ranger/Druid tracking would be by seeing broken twigs and scuffled dirt marks..

Rogue tracking would be by talking to locals, looking around for appropriate signs etc.. so would be better as a "Find" path than a Tracking list of what NPC's are spawned atm.



From a roleplay point of view:

Whir sneaks into town, unnoticed by the guards. His goal? To seek out and assassinate a known threat to (whoever hired him). He knows that he will be a very long time in this town because sneaking around without being seen is VERY slow going! But.. being a rog, and with rogues tight knit underground networks of spies and information, he is able to "track" down his victim and accomplish his mission.


Maybe this would only be available after a quest was given that required it.. or maybe only certain zones, like zones that actually have a rogue guild.


- Whir Deego
26 Halfling Rogue
 
I think rogues should have certain abilities... but track not being one.

Now a monk, they should have a snare attack -- anyone who's taken martial arts knows if you fight someone hand to hand and break bones on their infrastructure theyre not going to run at you full speed.

Iksars Tail Rake should stun (think a sweep).
\Im standing up for monks because i relize the FD doesnt work like it did on live, so they should have abilities to make up for it.
 
Monks are lacking? They blow rogues out of the court with their avoidance. They wipe the floor with their CC compared to chanters. Just because live had better FD, doesn't mean Wiz didn't give monks other tweaks. They can be excellent tanks, spliters, decent melee soloers, and are a really nice dps class. This combination makes them extremly useful and even required for most high end groups.
 
If anyone has read the EQ novel "The Rogue's Hour" then you'll know that the main character, Rileigh, used only throwing daggers. He was quite badass with them as well. I don't see it being too far fetched for there being some sort of quest for some reclusive weaponsmith to make you a stack of balanced throwing daggers that are something like 15/35 with a proc. I don't know, I'm just blowing off hot air.
 
deeho81 said:
when a character is described following a mob for the kill i don't think of a skilled rogue, i think of a common street thug. to me a rogue would, yes, know his victim/target, and as such will lay in silent ambush for the target. a rogue is a professional killer, or assassin, and would have studied their target. and i think, rather than follow the target, they let the target come to them and strike out of the shadows.

i think if you've read even a crappy fantasy/adventure book they are depicted as such. and any 'stalking' they do is covered by sneak.
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That sounds more like a ninja... ;)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rogue

They make the rogue sound like a thug to me.. That's just a popularized definition though, not as close to the EQ community idea of a rogue.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ninja

Interesting to see what a dictionary has to say about it..

The ninja definition sounds like a monk/rogue combo

IMO
 
Would it be too hard to code the game mechanics so that rogue throwing was treated like a ranged backstab? Since normal weapons are generally better than throwing weapons this skill would end up mostly being situational and roleplay, but it would give the roleplay rogues something fun to do.

Oh, and rogue tracking is not a good idea. They already get to creep around and case the joint before fighting - no need for them to add radar.
 
I think this thread is getting way off topic, but I would like to comment on the main idea of rogues getting track.

I feel this is a skill that rogues could feasibly get in a roleplay sense. Although I know how this can easily alter class balance. I heard the arguement that rogues do not sniff the ground and taste the dirt to track enemies like a ranger would do in a roleplay sense, it was stated rogues are alert to thier surroundings and know thier prey etc etc.
It can be argued that the 'alert' factor for a rogue could give them a very small tracking range for things they hear nearby. I tested track on my bard on live, which had a capped skill of 100. i tracked a static mob from the absolute edge of my tracking, moving away as far as possible, then used the /loc to determine distance. with some simple trig i found the range to be about 1000 EQ feet (1 loc is 1 foot) so 10 feet per skill point. That being said I think a rogue would have no more than a 10 track cap for anything they hear, indoors or outdoors.


Recap - 10 tracking cap for rogues, almost pointless skill then but adheres to roleplay, any higher and it displaces class balance.
 
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