Robe of Melting Memories

Tevinter

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
The proc on this robe is awful and doesnt actually make a monster stop hitting me at all. If this proc could be changed to be on par or better than the ED Map robe(http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Odessi's_Shimmering_Silk_Kimono) in terms of proc power or proc percentage, that would be a cool A++ change i think everyone would enjoy. It also makes sense logically for a t11 robe to have a better proc than a t8? or t9ish robe.

Thanks for reading my post, have a wonderful day
 
When knight 1h ratios were first changed there were a few items that didn't get nerfed until they were discovered later. There was a tier 0 and otherwise awful sword from Western Wastes or something that still had a 28/24 ratio. You probably just called attention to that Silk Komono for its proc rate to be tweaked in line with other reactive bp procs.
 
Odessi's Shimmering Silk Kimono (From ED maps)
AC: 35
Focus Effect: Mana Conservation VI
Effect: Concussion (Reactive Proc, 26%)
STA: +10 CHA: +30 WIS: +20 INT: +20 AGI: +20 HP: +150 MANA: +180
SV FIRE: +5 SV DISEASE: +5 SV COLD: +5 SV MAGIC: +5 SV POISON: +5
Stun Resist: +5%

Robe of Melting Memories (From Spires, 3rd floor)
AC: 40
Focus Effect: Fiery Chaos
Magic DMG: 25
Effect: Melting Memory (Reactive Proc, 12%)
DEX: +20 STA: +20 CHA: +35 INT: +25 HP: +210 MANA: +265
SV FIRE: +8 SV DISEASE: +8 SV COLD: +8 SV MAGIC: +20 SV POISON: +8
Flowing Thought: +1 Mind Shield: +10% Spell Ward: +1%

So it seems that while the ED map robe has a really nice proc, it also has:
(1) Mana Conservation 6, which just isn't that special for the difficulty of the fight,
(2) pretty OK caster stats
(3) just 5 SV all
(4) 5 stun resist that's not really too important at that tier at all.

While the Spires robe has:
(1) Fiery Chaos, which is still totally baller
(2) a little better int/cha/stam/ac, and a drop in agi (whatever)
(3) 60 HP and 85 Mana more (!)
(4) double the resists, and heavy on the magic.
(5) far more desirable extra stuff
(6) a similar but far weaker proc that just doesn't do much.

It really seems that the ED map robe just is kinda mediocre and has a really cool proc to make up for it, while the Spires robe is sweet as hell and just happens to have a similar proc that isn't as nice. Is the proc really so different that the ED map one will get mobs off you in a hurry and save your life most of the time? Does the Spires robe proc just never get the mob off you? Is this only happening in cases where you have way more aggro than anyone else due to enchanter stuff that wouldn't really affect the other 3 classes on the robe? I admit that these procs could just be riding on a threshold where they proc differences often decides between life and death. Upgrading the proc on the Spires robe to match or improve the ED map robe then seems like a ridiculously huge buff.

In short, if you're wanting to wear an ED map robe over Spires robe just for the proc, something is so seriously wrong that just slapping the proc on the Spires robe as a quick fix does nothing to solve the problem.
 
i think it'd be cool to have a robe with a 100% melee reactive hate proc, to add some risk to using it.

could be some potential exploits with it, and obviously people could just remove it unless you add some sort of mechanic like the 4.3 two hander, but...
 
Still, that does sound eminently doable and awesome.. I can sense Zaela springing a boner from here. Doesn't matter that I don't know Zaela's gender, it happened regardless.
 
Animand said:
Is the proc really so different that the ED map one will get mobs off you in a hurry and save your life most of the time? Does the Spires robe proc just never get the mob off you? Is this only happening in cases where you have way more aggro than anyone else due to enchanter stuff that wouldn't really affect the other 3 classes on the robe?
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This is just happening in cases where I: Aod people, mob gets mad, i now have aggro, yelling in vent for heals, mob keeps punching me, tank mob while getting a meager -100 hate proc about every 2 rounds.

By doing some quick math, the spires robe has about half the proc rate with a proc that is 4 times weaker. The spires robe has to proc 4 times at half the proc rate to equal one proc from the other robe.

I just think that a t11 robe should have a proc comparable to a tier8 or so one.
 
Tevinter said:
This is just happening in cases where I: Aod people, mob gets mad, i now have aggro, yelling in vent for heals, mob keeps punching me, tank mob while getting a meager -100 hate proc about every 2 rounds.

By doing some quick math, the spires robe has about half the proc rate with a proc that is 4 times weaker. The spires robe has to proc 4 times at half the proc rate to equal one proc from the other robe.

I just think that a t11 robe should have a proc comparable to a tier8 or so one.
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you're missing the point. The tier 11 robes has double the stats! and a meh proc. the tier 8 robe has shitty stats and a nice proc.
 
The stats and focus are negligible for a dead caster. The point of the matter is that the proc is that huge. Think of any fight that has some form of crowd control. If they are not controlled casters are the most likely to be affected and not able to take the hits. That is what makes the t8 robe so powerful where you will see it worn onany fights throughout the tiers. Spires robe may be more desirable to wear long term but like fae robe the Ed map robe has a much higher potential value.
 
Moraelintz said:
The stats and focus are negligible for a dead caster. The point of the matter is that the proc is that huge. Think of any fight that has some form of crowd control. If they are not controlled casters are the most likely to be affected and not able to take the hits. That is what makes the t8 robe so powerful where you will see it worn onany fights throughout the tiers. Spires robe may be more desirable to wear long term but like fae robe the Ed map robe has a much higher potential value.
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Essentially this. Even if the spires robe has 100 more hit points it has 0 impact if i die because the proc does literally nothing.

I just think the proc on the spires robe should be brought up to a point where it isnt useless. As it is right now, i could wear a different robe, and the amount of time between a monster hitting me, and a monster hitting the tank again would not change at all.

At high tiers, 50 mana for an int caster is nothing compared to the benefit of the much much better proc. Casters itemize for focus effects, proc, and skill mods. Things that have actual noticeable impacts. 50 hitpoints isnt going to help keep me alive compared to a roughly 8 times more effective negative hate proc.

I feel that the Robe of Melting Memories should actually melt the monsters memory, not make it go "Lol ur dumb im gonna keep punching you". I do not think it is unreasonable tier11 loot should have procs comparable to much easier to acquire items.

TLDR; tier9 loot is still endgame
 
What tevinter said is true the most important think for casters is in order: 1) focus effect 2)skill mods 3) procs (bracer/robe)

Everything else is just extras. If I have to lose 50-100 hp/mana in order to either live through a fight by having fae robe / Ed map robe or maximize dps focus 50-100 mana loses every time. It is a no brainer mainly because a dead toon does 0dps and most fights 50-100 mana will not win/lose but 1-2% more dps could.
 
But the robe with the DPS focus AND the 25 magic damage is the Spires robe. The only thing at all going for the ED map robe is how good the proc is. If the 26% Concussion proc is so good you'd forgo the 7% fire focus and 25 magic damage, then I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.

Also, if you're consistently wearing the ED map robe because you're expecting to get aggro most of the time and just need it to survive, then you're probably doing some wrong. Are you constantly stealing aggro on boss fights, or do you actually prefer the Spires robe for those? Similarly, how would you compare it to 4.3 robe or NZ robe?

Look, I agree with you that if the proc is never helping get the mob off you, it needs a boost. However, arbitrarily making it fully 8 times more powerful to match the otherwise lackluster robe special for its proc is a bit of a reach. Let's first consider how much it takes to get a mob back onto the tank when you overaggro a little, as opposed to just being a get-out-of-aggro-free card.

Unforunately, as Lindstrom noted, it's more likely that the ED map robe proc is just a bit too good, considering when ED maps were introduced and the context expansion since then.

Edited to note: if the Spires robe proc needs to be increased in power by that much to be reasonably effective, then I, of course, totally agree with your argument. I just don't want to be hasty in arbitrary octupling the proc's power.
 
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Animand said:
Also, if you're consistently wearing the ED map robe because you're expecting to get aggro most of the time and just need it to survive, then you're probably doing some wrong. Are you constantly stealing aggro on boss fights, or do you actually prefer the Spires robe for those? Similarly, how would you compare it to 4.3 robe or NZ robe?

Look, I agree with you that if the proc is never helping get the mob off you, it needs a boost. However, arbitrarily making it fully 8 times more powerful to match the otherwise lackluster robe special for its proc is a bit of a reach. Let's first consider how much it takes to get a mob back onto the tank when you overaggro a little, as opposed to just being a get-out-of-aggro-free card.

Unforunately, as Lindstrom noted, it's more likely that the ED map robe proc is just a bit too good, considering when ED maps were introduced and the context expansion since then.

Edited to note: if the Spires robe proc needs to be increased in power by that much to be reasonably effective, then I, of course, totally agree with your argument. I just don't want to be hasty in arbitrary octupling the proc's power.
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I aggro mobs quite a bit on trash pulls because
A. Someone is bad and breaks mez
B. AoD'd people keep hitting the mob after i pull aggro and arent bros who concuss for me
C. Someone breaks mez on purpose because they enjoy killing me.
D. I group with not t9+ tank in exp

I just want the proc to be not useless, because it doesnt help at all in getting mobs off me unless the only aggro i have is proxy aggro.

The 4.3 robe is a pretty decent robe for casters and i would wear it over spires robe. Even with the nerf, the spell absorb is pretty cool, not to mention you get to look like a dark elf and get CSI8.

The Robe of melting memories focus is found on the best caster back for the tier, so the focus isnt really that important.

The green robe from yclist is actually pretty decent because it has 75 magic damage, but thats about it really.

The NZ robe shouldnt even be considered in gear progression because of how rare it is you have like 0 chance of ever getting one (There are maybe 4 or 5 in the game, and NZ has been killed so many times its silly). The NZ robe isnt even worth its rarity though, and is still outclassed by fae robe. The NZ robe isnt really too awful though if you need a cold focus but thats all its really good for. Considering it doesnt have a type 5 aug slot, spell casters miss out on the "good" caster rohk augs. NZ robe also has a lackluster proc and 50 less hit points and even though it has above average mana, its not really worth it. The only reason i would wear NZ robe is if i had taesh ear and a 4.3 ear, and even then i might just use a different cold focus. Oh it has 50 cold damage too, but there are still better, easier to get options.

In general, none of the high tier robes for casters are really super good, and this is why you see them wearing "worse" (lower tier) robes because they have procs and effects that are actually meaningful to their character.

TLDR; Spires robe proc does basically nothing, should be made to actually have an impact

EDIT: The yclist robe is called Robes of the Prime Enchanter, and i noticed it has mana con 8 and 10 divination too, so its pretty baller.
 
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The thing you say about getting aggro you are doing things wrong do not apply for the Ed map robe as it is a reactive proc. it will only go off on melee swings and maybe spells. It's usefulness is not in allowing you to dps more it is so when little aggro has been established the mobs will bounce off you to someone else. Also there are 3 or 4 really good fire focus items so that point is null and void.
 
Tevinter said:
In general, none of the high tier robes for casters are really super good, and this is why you see them wearing "worse" (lower tier) robes because they have procs and effects that are actually meaningful to their character.
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this is actually a problem with most classes at high tier in the post-4.3 robe landscape. there isnt a good high tier robe, there isn't a great healer option either - eclipse is decidedly "meh." most dps simply resort to 4.3 robe because of +2 offense (lol)

and we are left with robes of royalty and runeward linkmail being the best bps for most classes at endgame.
 
Moraelintz said:
The thing you say about getting aggro you are doing things wrong do not apply for the Ed map robe as it is a reactive proc. it will only go off on melee swings and maybe spells. It's usefulness is not in allowing you to dps more it is so when little aggro has been established the mobs will bounce off you to someone else. Also there are 3 or 4 really good fire focus items so that point is null and void.
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That's two replies in a row where I don't think you even read what I wrote. You have credited me with claims and arguments that I haven't put forth, then tore down these straw men with the very arguments I actually used. Finally, your last point is completely insincere, with Fiery Chaos still quite difficult to obtain by tier 11. Please re-read my posts and not just assume I'm putting forth the moronic argument you expected. I expected more from you, Shimone. :dumbsad:

Tevinter said:
I aggro mobs quite a bit on trash pulls because
A. Someone is bad and breaks mez
B. AoD'd people keep hitting the mob after i pull aggro and arent bros who concuss for me
C. Someone breaks mez on purpose because they enjoy killing me.
D. I group with not t9+ tank in exp
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For A, B, and C, they are all enchanter related and don't have nearly as much correlation to the other casters. For the other 3 casters, their only real issues are (1) not managing aggro like they should be i.e. playing badly, and (2) your point D. If you're so much aggro that the tank just can't keep it off you, then Odessi's robe fits the bill amazingly. However, balancing a tier 11 robe around constantly playing (and raiding) with bad players who bring up situations A, B, and C a lot sounds like a terrible premise. Situation D has virtually nothing to do with someone raiding who knows how to manage aggro normally.

Tevinter said:
I just want the proc to be not useless, because it doesnt help at all in getting mobs off me unless the only aggro i have is proxy aggro.
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Honestly, it seems that your real issues are just enchanter-only. Having so much mez aggro that people being bad by breaking mez prematurely or not managing AoD aggro is getting you killed. However, Odessi's robe does such a large amount of aggro reduction that the tank is often able to get the mob(s) off you before you die. If the aggro-reduction rate of Robe of Melting Memories were raised to such a level where having huge mez aggro during a mez break is so quickly lowered and fixed, you give room to the other 3 caster classes for safely and consistently drawing aggro. Why would a wizard concuss so hard when they can just nuke hard and feel confident the tank can get aggro back easily enough? I can already hear Solosolki jizzing his pants over the potential added DPS, and I want one for Tarutao just so I can box him to play with it.

Tevinter said:
The 4.3 robe is a pretty decent robe for casters and i would wear it over spires robe. Even with the nerf, the spell absorb is pretty cool, not to mention you get to look like a dark elf and get CSI8.

The Robe of melting memories focus is found on the best caster back for the tier, so the focus isnt really that important.

The green robe from yclist is actually pretty decent because it has 75 magic damage, but thats about it really.

The NZ robe shouldnt even be considered in gear progression because of how rare it is you have like 0 chance of ever getting one (There are maybe 4 or 5 in the game, and NZ has been killed so many times its silly). The NZ robe isnt even worth its rarity though, and is still outclassed by fae robe. The NZ robe isnt really too awful though if you need a cold focus but thats all its really good for. Considering it doesnt have a type 5 aug slot, spell casters miss out on the "good" caster rohk augs. NZ robe also has a lackluster proc and 50 less hit points and even though it has above average mana, its not really worth it. The only reason i would wear NZ robe is if i had taesh ear and a 4.3 ear, and even then i might just use a different cold focus. Oh it has 50 cold damage too, but there are still better, easier to get options.
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Tevinter said:
TLDR; Spires robe proc does basically nothing, should be made to actually have an impact

EDIT: The yclist robe is called Robes of the Prime Enchanter, and i noticed it has mana con 8 and 10 divination too, so its pretty baller.
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I went ahead and compiled a list of all the tier 9 and higher robes before my previous post, and came to most of the same conclusions (and you included 2 things I missed). We're in agreement here, moving on.

Tevinter said:
In general, none of the high tier robes for casters are really super good, and this is why you see them wearing "worse" (lower tier) robes because they have procs and effects that are actually meaningful to their character.
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But would you wear any of those robes over Odessi's robe? It seems that you wouldn't, as the proc is just so amazing that it overcomes virtually any other possible stats. If you improved the proc on Robe of Melting Memories to this point, you'd only ever wear robes with large aggro-reduction properties. We've been down this road before, and it's not pretty.

Having a proc that help you drop aggro if you accidentally over-aggro a little is nice, but having a proc that can protect you from massive aggro poses some serious problems. If the 12% Melting Memory isn't effectively doing anything, it needs a buff. However, if you consider Odessi's robe best in slot because of the 26% Concussion proc, then re-creating this level of power is too much. The balance has to be somewhere in the middle.

cian2 said:
this is actually a problem with most classes at high tier in the post-4.3 robe landscape. there isnt a good high tier robe, there isn't a great healer option either - eclipse is decidedly "meh." most dps simply resort to 4.3 robe because of +2 offense (lol)

and we are left with robes of royalty and runeward linkmail being the best bps for most classes at endgame.
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Really, this is an itemization issue for tiers 12 to 14 due to the fact there are comparatively fewer encounters at these tiers. If there were as many encounters as in, say, tier 8-10, then there'd be more room for a diverse loot pool like there. I'm also holding out hope that Thaz ends up filling a lot of these gaps.
 
Animand said:
. Finally, your last point is completely insincere, with Fiery Chaos still quite difficult to obtain by tier 11.
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Speaking as a player here:
In fact Fiery Chaos seems to be the easiest-to-find 7% elemental focus for a caster: Between Hellhound belt, Robe of Melting Memorys and Sleeves of Bestowed Intellect, there are 3 easy-to get options from early t11.
 
I actually think there is a case for an enchanter only robe which is set at T11/12 with a high aggro-reduction rapid clickie with say a 5 or 10 minute cool-down, not just because people are bad and break mezzes but mainly for charm pets.

Abyss charm pets are notoriously fickle and can spontaneously break charm and kill Chanter.

On an off-topic point. Which Guild put an Animation weapon on one of the entry mobs to Abyss?
 
Goldfolk said:
I actually think there is a case for an enchanter only robe which is set at T11/12 with a high aggro-reduction rapid clickie with say a 5 or 10 minute cool-down, not just because people are bad and break mezzes but mainly for charm pets.

Abyss charm pets are notoriously fickle and can spontaneously break charm and kill Chanter.

On an off-topic point. Which Guild put an Animation weapon on one of the entry mobs to Abyss?
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This post reminded me, does memblur actually do anything now? The last time i used it even when i got a success message nothing happened and i dont think i ever memmed the spell again.
 
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