Syalara
Dalayan Beginner
...have kinda jacked progression. There is no real reason to equip most of the class specific wizard loots atm, even the upgraded versions. I dont know if other classes share the same issue but I am gonna wing it and say they do. Personally, I will only talk about Wizard items cause those I am familiar with.
Meat note: Zaela is still in the process of tinkering with loots at this tier, so the stats items currently have are not final!
IP Boots
Azrath, Slippers of Raging Ice
AC 18
Sta 20, Int 15, Cha 20, HP 140, Mana 165
CR 20
Effect Shojars Cruelty
Upgraded Thaz boots
Arcanist Slippers
AC 14
Sta 10, Int 16, Cha 22, HP 125, Mana 165
All resists +4
Effect: Range Increment 7
I would lose 15hp, 10 sta, go nowhere with mana or resists, and lose AC just for taking the time to advance an entire raid tier AND farm the essences for the upgrade. This makes no sense at all, there is no item progression here. RI7 isnt uncommon enough to warrant not gaining any mana or hp or resists over a tier we passed looooong ago. The fights in Thaz are alot damn harder then in IP, the loot should reflect the time and effort put into beating the encounters/farming the encounters.
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IP Wrist
Fedraz, Bracer of Chilling WInds
AC 18
FT1
Wis 11, Int 11, Cha 18, HP 125, Mana 150
CR 18
Spell Ward 2%
Upgraded Thaz Wrist
Arcanist Wristband
AC 11
Effect: Surge of Magic
Sta 8, Int 12, Cha 15, HP 120, Mana 160
All resists +3
Lose overal resists, lose ac, lose 2% spell ward, lose hp, and lose 1FT to gain 10m and a proc that dosent work when compared to an IP wrist. To make matters worse, I could compare this item to a VALOR A wrist (Bracer of Everburning Flame) and there would be only a +10m difference but I would also lose a proc that does work and I would lose -1 agro and get to keep the same total resists all for the low low time investment of raiding 2 more tiers and spending time farming w/ 17 friends to upgrade the wrist from the state in which it drops. (Immaculate Silk Wristband)
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CoD Loot
Ageless Silk Pantaloons
AC 15
Evocation +10
FT1
CSI 6
Cha 22, Int 18, Hp 100, Mana 155
+7 sv/all
Upgraded Thaz loot
Arcanist Trousers
AC 24
CSI 7
Sta 14, Int 20, Cha 25, Hp 145, Mana 165
+6 sv/all
spell ward 3%
Well, a 10m increase in mana but losing FT means I lose mana here and for what? a .1 decrease in my archaic nuke cast time? At least I gain hp and AC by upgrading my Thaz legs, thats something I guess......
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ValorB miniboss loot
Tansas Robe of Mastery
AC 28
Relentless Arcana
Effect: Enthanns Guard
Int 25, Cha 20, HP 150, Mana 200
fr/cr +15
-2 Aggression
Spell ward 1%
Upgraded Thaz loot
Arcanist Robe
AC 28
DI 7
Effect: Arcane Barrier
Sta 15, Int 25, Cha 22, HP 155, Mana 205
+8 sv/all
-3 aggression
DI7 once again isnt rare enough to warrant such a minor increase in stats between these two items. I would gain 5m and 5hp, and some resists for advancing tiers. I would however lose an effect not commonly available for wizards, Relentless Arcana and while gaining overall resists, its minor considering the tier jump, the time invested, oh and the fact that Thaz aoe's are MUCH harder to resist. Also Enthanns Guard may be a usefull proc to have on occasion...a rare occasion but nonetheless better then a clicky on Thaz robe which ADDS to my agro and is never used. Ever.
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And for my final comparison, here we pit an upgraded headpiece from one of the highest raid zones in game with a simple quest head piece from PoT, thats right folks...Plane of Torment.
PoT quest
Mutilated Skull of Torment
AC 25
FT1
Str 5, Sta 5, Agi 5, Dex 5, Int 10, Cha 10, HP 100, Mana 120
Sv/all +6
Upgraded Thaz loot
Arcanist Crown
AC 16
FT1
Sta 10, Int 18, Cha 15, Hp 135, Mana 170
Sv/all +5
Mind shield +5%
I actually lose resists and AC but gain 50m and 35hp. That would be a sought after upgrade if I werent comparing PoT stuff to Thaz loot. If anyone had told me whlle we were raiding PoT that it would take me 2 years to gain 50m in my head slot, I think I mighta hung myself with Cat5 cable on the spot. We are talking about a ludicrous number of hours spent in game raiding between PoT and Thaz.
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Please reconsider the changes you have made to the upgraded Thaz gear and please spend the time fixing items that have been dropping in zone since its inception before nerfing items.
If the changes were in line with progression, I would have much less of a problem with them. But they are outta whack completely. IP items and below were already nerfed once, I am not suggesting they be nerfed again. It would make more sense to just squash the changes to Thaz loot. The encounters in thaz arent getting any easier, in fact they have recently been made more difficult.
Progression was fine before. We still need to farm the hell outta ToT to be able to kill the boss of the zone and anything in Tarhyls wing. We needed the guild HEAVILY equipped in pre nerf Thaz and ToT gear just to get as far as we have come in Farhags. Thats progression. Nobody was in danger of farming thaz and blammo killing Tarhyl.
Even still I think item progression is biased towards IP loot, look at Nevian in its nerfed flavor we see today for example. FT2 and 140m from IP and Iceflow from Thaz w/ 165m and FT1, thats a loss of mana right there for the majority of encounters in Thaz and beyond. I am not saying nerf IP, I am saying boost Thaz loot and above. If that means making some encounters a little more difficult, fine. I would rather face a challenge and see a worthwhile upgrade when its overcome then have to compare my IP loots to Thaz+ loots to even see if its worth a minor upgrade.
WRU wizard backslot thats better then the (nerfed)Reverence?
Sorry for the super long post.
Safiya
Meat note: Zaela is still in the process of tinkering with loots at this tier, so the stats items currently have are not final!
IP Boots
Azrath, Slippers of Raging Ice
AC 18
Sta 20, Int 15, Cha 20, HP 140, Mana 165
CR 20
Effect Shojars Cruelty
Upgraded Thaz boots
Arcanist Slippers
AC 14
Sta 10, Int 16, Cha 22, HP 125, Mana 165
All resists +4
Effect: Range Increment 7
I would lose 15hp, 10 sta, go nowhere with mana or resists, and lose AC just for taking the time to advance an entire raid tier AND farm the essences for the upgrade. This makes no sense at all, there is no item progression here. RI7 isnt uncommon enough to warrant not gaining any mana or hp or resists over a tier we passed looooong ago. The fights in Thaz are alot damn harder then in IP, the loot should reflect the time and effort put into beating the encounters/farming the encounters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
IP Wrist
Fedraz, Bracer of Chilling WInds
AC 18
FT1
Wis 11, Int 11, Cha 18, HP 125, Mana 150
CR 18
Spell Ward 2%
Upgraded Thaz Wrist
Arcanist Wristband
AC 11
Effect: Surge of Magic
Sta 8, Int 12, Cha 15, HP 120, Mana 160
All resists +3
Lose overal resists, lose ac, lose 2% spell ward, lose hp, and lose 1FT to gain 10m and a proc that dosent work when compared to an IP wrist. To make matters worse, I could compare this item to a VALOR A wrist (Bracer of Everburning Flame) and there would be only a +10m difference but I would also lose a proc that does work and I would lose -1 agro and get to keep the same total resists all for the low low time investment of raiding 2 more tiers and spending time farming w/ 17 friends to upgrade the wrist from the state in which it drops. (Immaculate Silk Wristband)
-------------------------------------------------------
CoD Loot
Ageless Silk Pantaloons
AC 15
Evocation +10
FT1
CSI 6
Cha 22, Int 18, Hp 100, Mana 155
+7 sv/all
Upgraded Thaz loot
Arcanist Trousers
AC 24
CSI 7
Sta 14, Int 20, Cha 25, Hp 145, Mana 165
+6 sv/all
spell ward 3%
Well, a 10m increase in mana but losing FT means I lose mana here and for what? a .1 decrease in my archaic nuke cast time? At least I gain hp and AC by upgrading my Thaz legs, thats something I guess......
---------------------------------------------------------------
ValorB miniboss loot
Tansas Robe of Mastery
AC 28
Relentless Arcana
Effect: Enthanns Guard
Int 25, Cha 20, HP 150, Mana 200
fr/cr +15
-2 Aggression
Spell ward 1%
Upgraded Thaz loot
Arcanist Robe
AC 28
DI 7
Effect: Arcane Barrier
Sta 15, Int 25, Cha 22, HP 155, Mana 205
+8 sv/all
-3 aggression
DI7 once again isnt rare enough to warrant such a minor increase in stats between these two items. I would gain 5m and 5hp, and some resists for advancing tiers. I would however lose an effect not commonly available for wizards, Relentless Arcana and while gaining overall resists, its minor considering the tier jump, the time invested, oh and the fact that Thaz aoe's are MUCH harder to resist. Also Enthanns Guard may be a usefull proc to have on occasion...a rare occasion but nonetheless better then a clicky on Thaz robe which ADDS to my agro and is never used. Ever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And for my final comparison, here we pit an upgraded headpiece from one of the highest raid zones in game with a simple quest head piece from PoT, thats right folks...Plane of Torment.
PoT quest
Mutilated Skull of Torment
AC 25
FT1
Str 5, Sta 5, Agi 5, Dex 5, Int 10, Cha 10, HP 100, Mana 120
Sv/all +6
Upgraded Thaz loot
Arcanist Crown
AC 16
FT1
Sta 10, Int 18, Cha 15, Hp 135, Mana 170
Sv/all +5
Mind shield +5%
I actually lose resists and AC but gain 50m and 35hp. That would be a sought after upgrade if I werent comparing PoT stuff to Thaz loot. If anyone had told me whlle we were raiding PoT that it would take me 2 years to gain 50m in my head slot, I think I mighta hung myself with Cat5 cable on the spot. We are talking about a ludicrous number of hours spent in game raiding between PoT and Thaz.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please reconsider the changes you have made to the upgraded Thaz gear and please spend the time fixing items that have been dropping in zone since its inception before nerfing items.
If the changes were in line with progression, I would have much less of a problem with them. But they are outta whack completely. IP items and below were already nerfed once, I am not suggesting they be nerfed again. It would make more sense to just squash the changes to Thaz loot. The encounters in thaz arent getting any easier, in fact they have recently been made more difficult.
Progression was fine before. We still need to farm the hell outta ToT to be able to kill the boss of the zone and anything in Tarhyls wing. We needed the guild HEAVILY equipped in pre nerf Thaz and ToT gear just to get as far as we have come in Farhags. Thats progression. Nobody was in danger of farming thaz and blammo killing Tarhyl.
Even still I think item progression is biased towards IP loot, look at Nevian in its nerfed flavor we see today for example. FT2 and 140m from IP and Iceflow from Thaz w/ 165m and FT1, thats a loss of mana right there for the majority of encounters in Thaz and beyond. I am not saying nerf IP, I am saying boost Thaz loot and above. If that means making some encounters a little more difficult, fine. I would rather face a challenge and see a worthwhile upgrade when its overcome then have to compare my IP loots to Thaz+ loots to even see if its worth a minor upgrade.
WRU wizard backslot thats better then the (nerfed)Reverence?
Sorry for the super long post.
Safiya