Ranger Thaz Legs
- Thread starter shanoma
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I'd like to see 45% haste on rangers as well as the clicky getting fixed. Rangers were already majorly nerfed to be brought under rogue dps, and that 1% haste adds a massive amount to monk and rogue dps. Leaving rangers out of this, especially with the addition of rogue traps, really pushes them out of line with the rest of melee/hybrid dps.
Well, rangers and beastlords really need that extra % of haste to be in-line with other classes, especially dps classes. Tanks get a 46% haste item from ToT, rogues and monks get 45% haste from thaz, but rangers and beastlords are left without a benefit, despite rogues becoming overpowered in their dps role with the combined addition of traps and poisons on top of their ability assassinate, hide/sneak, and MASSIVE backstabs. My max hit on a raid boss with the highest damage bow in the game is about 5300, yet rogues backstab for close to 10k on the same mob, AND they get greater haste built into their class-specific armor.
Yona
Dalayan Beginner
shanoma said:
Traps are currenlty no dps, just a fun factor. Poison skill is a good utility, not good dps yet. I don't know why you include rogue skills in this conversation . Yes we can do massive stabbage, but close to 10k ? I've never hit for 8k even, but I guess u might hit for 8K+ once every decade. That's completely irrelevant anyway.
We usually parse our raid dps in PR, and mind you, Alpargatas (ranger) is above rogues for most encounters.
Now you talk about something which is 1-2 tier above us, so classes DPS might change a bit, I'd like to see parses from your raids, so we have proof of overpowered rogues and shitty ranger dps.
I don't mind if you ask for an increase of ranger haste item, BUT DON'T BRING THE "ROGUES ARE OVERPOWERED" shit into this. Especially with this kind of argumentation.
To sum up : Get some parses done.
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
shanoma said:
Seeing as though rangers actually get upgrades to their DPS (new bows) and rogues have had their DPS capped since they bought that dropable dagger from HHK, I really don't understand how they are becoming overpowered. Poisons are not very powerful, and cost a buff slot and most other skills are cute, but don't add anything to the raid game.
As for rangers getting the 45% haste...
I think they will need to wait for another tier to get that kind of haste, and that Thaz armor should not be the place for it.
Ikaa|LoveYums
Staff Emeritus
Spiritplx said:
Theyre not, but those with little to no exposure to the class look at it and go POISON OMG THATS OVERPOWERING when in reality, as already stated, its a utility that gives an edge. When poison starts proccing moon comet, then you can complain about it being overpowering. Until then, don't bank on hearsay, and do your homework before making any claims about one class being overpowering, lest it throw your whole argument/suggestion out the window as a request based on witchcraft.
And yes.. Once a rogue gets a 17dmg mainhand, theres not a whole lot of going up from there.. shave a point or two from delay, but thats it currently.
Im relatively sure that replacing an item proc/click with 45% haste will throw the balance of the class armor out of whack, but i leave that decision for an item dev.
Also, I dont know where you saw a 10k backstab, or if that number was simply plucked from midair for a wow factor, but i've never myself gone above ~4500 backstab, and thats a max crit, once in a blue moon. Normally its ~2000
I really would like to see some form of 45% haste item added to the game for BST/RNG.I'm definitely against seeing it go on Thaz items especially class armor,I think adding it to an already existing item in late ToT (Farhag/Generals/etc) would be a better idea.I know I was disappointed to be one of the classes capped at 44% haste in that tier (Thaz), getting towards the end of the next and still seeing no haste upgrade was a pretty big letdown.
Everyone wants to see an upgrade, even mild ones, to several aspects of their class, we've seen upgrades in HP/AC/Mana/etc but no haste upgrade.Take into consideration that ATK and crit have a worn cap that can be maxed before ToT,the only dps increases you will see are from weapon upgrades,haste, and some focus effects.
Everyone wants to see an upgrade, even mild ones, to several aspects of their class, we've seen upgrades in HP/AC/Mana/etc but no haste upgrade.Take into consideration that ATK and crit have a worn cap that can be maxed before ToT,the only dps increases you will see are from weapon upgrades,haste, and some focus effects.
Ikaa|LoveYums
Staff Emeritus
soba said:
And right here is the problem, because there is a marked difference between "This should be changed because I want it" and "This should be changed because its broken/unbalancing".
The problem is, is that everyone likes to use the second reason as a smokescreen, when in reality, most of the time, it's the first. This is also why anytime something IS overpowering, and brought into line, it's "Nerfed". As was already pointed out in this thread, the "nerf" to rangers to bring them under rogue DPS was necessary, because thats where they should be. It would seem (atleast, on PR raid parses) it is not so.
Now if you WANT to discuss overpowered, we can bring up you soloing the entire EW orc camp and beating the respawn, or getting 40% of an AA in 10 minutes by mass kiting in plaguelands. Im pretty sure I can't solo ONE EW orc, even with my overpowering traps and poisons, let alone the whole camp.
First, an extra 1% damage (haste) on 400dps is ~4dps.
You're make a big complaint post about 4dps. Wooboy, that'll close HUGE gaps.
How about instead we talk about how a ranger in parry stance while using foresight tanks better than just about every other class in the game.
Seriously. Parse it. That doesn't even take into consideration stun-able mobs when mound works and reduces dps even further.
You do darn near rogue dps with a million other bonuses.
Less QQ please.
You're make a big complaint post about 4dps. Wooboy, that'll close HUGE gaps.
How about instead we talk about how a ranger in parry stance while using foresight tanks better than just about every other class in the game.
Seriously. Parse it. That doesn't even take into consideration stun-able mobs when mound works and reduces dps even further.
You do darn near rogue dps with a million other bonuses.
Less QQ please.
Ikaa/Osimi said:
I would call it a small imbalance when 2 melee classes that derive the majority of their dps from melee have less haste (even 1%) than the rest of those types of classes, this isn't even including tanks which have access to 46% haste at that tier.It would make sense if it were only Rogues who had access to the highest haste as a workaround to giving them more dps while sidestepping the backstab piercer dmg problem, but that isn't the case. EDIT:I don't mean with regards to backstab, I'm aware it's capped with regard to haste, I meant as a dps increase for straight melee in conjunction with the lowering of weapon delay.
Please don't take this as a call to nerf the haste % on other classes, that happens too often with suggestion threads that use comparisons to other classes or class items.I'd rather just leave it as it is than to see another nerf if those are the only two options.
Alton said:
As I said when you're already capped on ATK and crit your upgrade paths are narrowed, there are weapons,haste and some focus effects.It's all pretty much smaller upgrades at this point as the dev's try to slow down mudflation, every little bit counts.
Bah, this got blown way up really fast. I didn't intend for this to be a ranger vs. rogue argument. My point was that ranger thaz legs are broken, there's 45% haste on other melee dps class legs, and maybe it would be easier to just replace that zone-crashing clicky with 45% haste since the clicky apparently can't be repaired, and it would probably be nice to toss 45% haste to beastlords as well. That's it, that's all I'm trying to say.
I've never played a rogue, and I based my assumptions off of what I've seen other rogues do and what they've told me. Now when someone describes a trap as "a weak backstab," naturally, someone who doesn't play a rogue is going to think "wtf OP." When a rogue tells you that his poison does a 10% slow that stacks on top of other slows, that's a "wtf OP." That's why I said BECOMING, as in "getting there" rather than draping them in the frilly chartreuse and violet OP tablecloth. I don't know. What I do know is that everyone has SOME complaints about their class, and you can always toss up another class to compare it with.
Maybe that 1% haste would totally overpower RNG and BL. I don't know. What I can say for sure is that a clicky that does nothing but crash zones is broken and really should be removed and replaced or repaired.
I've never played a rogue, and I based my assumptions off of what I've seen other rogues do and what they've told me. Now when someone describes a trap as "a weak backstab," naturally, someone who doesn't play a rogue is going to think "wtf OP." When a rogue tells you that his poison does a 10% slow that stacks on top of other slows, that's a "wtf OP." That's why I said BECOMING, as in "getting there" rather than draping them in the frilly chartreuse and violet OP tablecloth. I don't know. What I do know is that everyone has SOME complaints about their class, and you can always toss up another class to compare it with.
Maybe that 1% haste would totally overpower RNG and BL. I don't know. What I can say for sure is that a clicky that does nothing but crash zones is broken and really should be removed and replaced or repaired.
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