Question about Turuj

Silosobi

Dalayan Pious Diety
I'm wondering if a Dev or someone can clarify whether it is okay to farm turuj trash just for tomes? Similar things happen through lots of other raid zones, prison gems, thaz aug/essences, any archaic dropping zone come to mind as other raid trash that gets farmed by often less than full raids. The difference with turuj is that the trash respawns if it is not killed within a timer, or gets reset at the alcove.

Opuses, unfortunately, have become a core part of player progression, and with their entirely random drops it is not uncommon in FWF to see people who have consistently raided the zone for over a year that are still missing core class opi. Farming trash just for this purpose would be a tedious task since there are no sure-fire mobs, and bosses in turuj are mostly easy, so the low opus chance combined with boss loot from each tribe makes for a balance of risk/reward. Just killing trash has generally seemed like a very poor time investment in the past to us, but since recently we have been running out of content to do in our ~12 hours a week of raiding, I was thinking that if we could clear a tribe's trash a few extra times when we have nothing left to do that week it would give us something to do and slightly reduce the issue that is we will be farming this zone indefinitely because of opuses - long after everything rots, i guarentee every guild will still compete for the zone due to how powerful opuses are and they are so random that no amount of time means you get what you want/need.

Something I have been in favor of for a while now, which is related to above issue, would be implimenting a rare, difficult to obtain method for gaining an opus of your choice. Maybe if Rujik had a 100% droprate, sharnree had a 50%, and all other turuj bosses had a 20% chance to drop a token that can be turned in for any opus 1, or two can be turned in for any opus 2. That would add only a small number of opuses in total, and the overall distribution would remain random, but it would allow players/guilds to fill in the core tomes that are missed due to bad luck.

These are really two separate issues, and I think the first is a lot more likely since its really just a policy clarification. The second idea I think is something direly needed, but I don't really expect to see it anytime soon. We might have to wait until new guilds are trying to do turuj, but fwf/cw/exo all have it locked hard just for tomes.
 
I agree.

Forever killing Tur'ruj for that Random Opus II that never drops is no fun at all. Add some way to exchange drops for an Opus of choice. There is already means to exchange unused class tomes for needed ones.
 
Also, could someone add loot to the rujik trash so they have a chance at dropping tomes too?

You are too new to know anything about why Tur'Ruj is the way it is, the rujik trash does not drop anything because it does not actually do anything
 
I'm wondering if a Dev or someone can clarify whether it is okay to farm turuj trash just for tomes? Similar things happen through lots of other raid zones, prison gems, thaz aug/essences, any archaic dropping zone come to mind as other raid trash that gets farmed by often less than full raids. The difference with turuj is that the trash respawns if it is not killed within a timer, or gets reset at the alcove.

Are you seriously asking if you think it is okay to respawn a tribe via alcove just to farm it for Opii? This is far from okay, was determined on day 1 when Cyzaine told us what the Alcove was for, and you should honestly know better.

Now on to reading the rest of your post.
 
Opuses, unfortunately, have become a core part of player progression, and with their entirely random drops it is not uncommon in FWF to see people who have consistently raided the zone for over a year that are still missing core class opi. Farming trash just for this purpose would be a tedious task since there are no sure-fire mobs, and bosses in turuj are mostly easy, so the low opus chance combined with boss loot from each tribe makes for a balance of risk/reward. Just killing trash has generally seemed like a very poor time investment in the past to us, but since recently we have been running out of content to do in our ~12 hours a week of raiding, I was thinking that if we could clear a tribe's trash a few extra times when we have nothing left to do that week it would give us something to do and slightly reduce the issue that is we will be farming this zone indefinitely because of opuses - long after everything rots, i guarentee every guild will still compete for the zone due to how powerful opuses are and they are so random that no amount of time means you get what you want/need.

Something I have been in favor of for a while now, which is related to above issue, would be implimenting a rare, difficult to obtain method for gaining an opus of your choice. Maybe if Rujik had a 100% droprate, sharnree had a 50%, and all other turuj bosses had a 20% chance to drop a token that can be turned in for any opus 1, or two can be turned in for any opus 2. That would add only a small number of opuses in total, and the overall distribution would remain random, but it would allow players/guilds to fill in the core tomes that are missed due to bad luck.

These are really two separate issues, and I think the first is a lot more likely since its really just a policy clarification. The second idea I think is something direly needed, but I don't really expect to see it anytime soon. We might have to wait until new guilds are trying to do turuj, but fwf/cw/exo all have it locked hard just for tomes.

I don't think it is expected that everyone gets their Opiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii XYZ.. they are just icing on the cake -- and I don't think this should be catered to either. Class tomes, however, were intended in the model to be regular upgrades to your character, hence why they drop from bosses and not from trash. Because of the very specific class restrictions and randomness involved with these class tomes dropping off of bosses a system was introduced to redistribute those at a cost of 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 and so on.

I think the staff already regrets adding as many tomes as they added, making them even easier to obtain is probably the opposite direction that they would like to take. Sure, we love to see these drop. Are they required? Absolutely not. Should they be required and should content be tuned with the expectation of ~60 tomes on the average raider? I sure as hell hope not. There is already a steep curve that exists for players entering Ikisith, whether it is an imagined curve or reality doesn't make a difference.. as more tomes circulate and as time goes on requirements for guilds are artificially inflated. This creates a nearly insurmountable expectation for what the average joe needs to do in order to be amazing joe.
 
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[aside]

Opuses, or opera. Not all Latin words in "-us" is pluralized with"-ii" (I'm looking at you, "virii"!)

[/aside]
 
I can't believe you even asked this. I'd say its a definate no. However the token idea is a great idea. I agree with Bango on the tomes not being "needed" however if there was another way to get them or farm them i would not be against it at all!
 
I don't think it is expected that everyone gets their Opiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii XYZ.. they are just icing on the cake -- and I don't think this should be catered to either. Class tomes, however, were intended in the model to be regular upgrades to your character, hence why they drop from bosses and not from trash. Because of the very specific class restrictions and randomness involved with these class tomes dropping off of bosses a system was introduced to redistribute those at a cost of 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 and so on.

I think the staff already regrets adding as many tomes as they added, making them even easier to obtain is probably the opposite direction that they would like to take. Sure, we love to see these drop. Are they required? Absolutely not. Should they be required and should content be tuned with the expectation of ~60 tomes on the average raider? I sure as hell hope not. There is already a steep curve that exists for players entering Ikisith, whether it is an imagined curve or reality doesn't make a difference.. as more tomes circulate and as time goes on requirements for guilds are artificially inflated. This creates a nearly insurmountable expectation for what the average joe needs to do in order to be amazing joe.

This x10000000000000000

<3 Bango
 
I don't think it is expected that everyone gets their Opiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii XYZ.. they are just icing on the cake -- and I don't think this should be catered to either. Class tomes, however, were intended in the model to be regular upgrades to your character, hence why they drop from bosses and not from trash. Because of the very specific class restrictions and randomness involved with these class tomes dropping off of bosses a system was introduced to redistribute those at a cost of 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 and so on.

When tomes first dropped, class tomes were randomly off trash and the random ones were off bosses.

Opuses are super powerful, yet also hugely random. I don't like the idea that my character can miss a huge chunk of progression simply because I have bad luck. Regardless of whether they are "needed" or not, guilds will endlessly farm them for the above reason.

For the same reason, I don't like that the redistribution system costs exponentially more - it punishes guilds for having bad luck with drops. Guild A gets 5 tomes to drop for each of 18 characters, and farms an extra 36 random ones to fill in holes. Guild B kills the same number of bosses, but gets 6 tomes for 15 members and 0 for each of the other 3, they must farm an additional 114 tomes because their luck was worse. Obviously that's an extreme example, but it will always take longer to farm random tomes over just having the right ones drop. What about when a guild is progressed past turuj and a new member joins? You would have to farm 38 tomes every time someone new joins a guild to get them class tomes, unless you get lucky with drops.

From what I understand, Cyazine added a bunch of this stuff and then quit, and nobody else really wants to deal with the tedium of implementing/balancing/etc tomes. I don't expect someone to suddenly fix it, but I'd honestly heard no official answer to these concerns.

As far as a token system, I don't want or think tomes should be easier to obtain, I just wish players had some degree of control so luck didn't play such a huge role. I'd be in favor of halving the drop rate from all of spires/turuj in exchange for 1 guaranteed, chosen tome per turuj clear.
 
Are you seriously asking if you think it is okay to respawn a tribe via alcove just to farm it for Opii? This is far from okay, was determined on day 1 when Cyzaine told us what the Alcove was for, and you should honestly know better.

Now on to reading the rest of your post.

I wasn't there when TU first did Turuj. I had never heard anything about when this was okay other than tarutao saying it seems like a bad idea, and we discussed it in vent numerous times and nobody ever mentioned it being a rule, just something we guessed/expected - at the time we had plenty of content and needed more loot/class tomes, so it was totally undesirable to just kill trash.

For a guild to just kill trash for opi and respawn before bosses doesn't even seem like a very good time investment, but it would be something to do if you are out of other content, or just really want books.

I never expected it would be okay, but its worth asking.
 
Yeah, I doubt any sane guild would actually just constantly spawn trash for opus chances. We have gotten around 2 opus(opi[opii]{opiiiiii}]) in our last 5-6 tribe clears. It seems like you would only do that if you are 100% out of content to do (only FWF) and it still seems awful. However, because it was never intended to be used this way, it will never (maybe someday) be legal to do.
 
I still dont know of any official response other than cyazine heresay, but like you said it probably would not be ok because killing respawnable mobs for any sort of benefit even if time/reward is terrible seems kinda weird.
 
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