Quest: Assisting the Centaur / Voice of the Centaur

T

terr281

Dalayan Beginner
(Racial/class based faction issue with the quest for discussion, not an actual problem with the quest)

Quest: Assisting the Centaur (Centaur Hills) / Voice of the Centaur
NPC: Warden Tarval (Surefall Glade protectors or residents faction) / Helleron of the Plains (Centaur)
<For discussion> Class: Warriors (and potentially others)
Problem: It seems all warriors are "dubious" (or worse) with Surefall Glade Protectors/Residents, and as a result, the quest cannot be completed.

Progression:

a. Talk to Warden: No quest text since dubious.
b. Talk to Centaur: Successful due to indifferent faction.
c. <Complete "killing and acquire items portion of quest">
d. Give Items / Talk to Centaur: Successful, receive quest item.
e. Talk to Warden / Give quest item: Cannot be completed due to dubious faction.

I started the quest knowing of a warning that an Ogre warrior had made that he couldn't complete it. I figured "I am a Wood Elf, we are friendly with nature, Surefall Glade should like me better than they do Ogres." Yet, I am dubious as well. (Thus, no quest reward.)

However, the follow-up quest "Voice of the Centaur" can be (apparently, haven't done it since I don't want the quest item...see below) completed (and receive an item/xp) since it runs directly from the centaur themselves.
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Suggestions for the quests:

1. Change the quests to run directly from the centaur so people who help the centaur can be rewarded. (Instead of depending on Surefall Glade to provide the reward.)

2. Add shadowknight as a usable class for the reward (Darkwood Long Bow) for the quest reward for "Assisting the Centaur." (To put the quest in-line with the follow-up quest "Voice of the Centaur" and the reward of a bow with the same name as the quest.) <Note: Shadowknights can apparently use the bow from the second quest...why not the first?>

3. Add the other classes who can use bows to the usable class list for the bows. (Rogue comes to mind.) The centaurs want help dealing with a problem from the city, why do they care who gives it? (As long as you don't bring corruption yourself, etc....)

4. Change the proc on the bow "Voice of the Centaur" to a single target DD instead of the current AoE rain. (To make the second bow usable in most settings.) At present, the bow, in my opinion, is useless except for Rangers who want to AoE kite. (As the AoE has a chance of or does break mezes, roots, etc...all forms of group crowd control.) Further, it cannot be used for pulling in most dungeons due to AoE dmg and the potential to go through walls/dungeon floors.
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Addition:

The obvious answer to fix this quest would be for the character to up their Surefall Glade faction. However, after speaking with various people and doing research on the Wiki myself, it seems this is impossible to do unless one is of a relatively high level.
 
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terr281 said:
Problem: It seems all warriors are "dubious" (or worse) with Surefall Glade Protectors/Residents, and as a result, the quest cannot be completed.
Click to expand...

Maybe more a race issue, since my Human warrior completed this long ago without any problem. Try getting a human illusion from an enchanter.

1. Change the quests to run directly from the centaur so people who help the centaur can be rewarded. (Instead of depending on Surefall Glade to provide the reward.)
Click to expand...

It's really a Surefall quest that involves the Centaurs, not the other way around. Do you see a reason that the quest should be removed from Surefall, other than some people aren't friendly with Surefall (in which case, maybe the quest wasn't designed for them)?

2. Add shadowknight as a usable class for the reward (Darkwood Long Bow) for the quest reward for "Assisting the Centaur." (To put the quest in-line with the follow-up quest "Voice of the Centaur" and the reward of a bow with the same name as the quest.) <Note: Shadowknights can apparently use the bow from the second quest...why not the first?>
Click to expand...

Because Surefall (who gives the Darkwood Long Bow quest) is ethically at odds with SKs, whereas it seems the Centaurs (who give the Voice of the Centaur quest) are more removed and not so concerned with classes.

4. Change the proc on the bow "Voice of the Centaur" to a single target DD instead of the current AoE rain. (To make the second bow usable in most settings.) At present, the bow, in my opinion, is useless except for Rangers who want to AoE kite. (As the AoE has a chance of or does break mezes, roots, etc...all forms of group crowd control.) Further, it cannot be used for pulling in most dungeons due to AoE dmg and the potential to go through walls/dungeon floors.
Click to expand...

My warrior (who was always the puller in the group) used this bow to pull in dungeons from probably lvl 35-40 all the way through 65 and a bunch of AAs, and never had a problem. In fact, the only bow-using class I can see who would have a problem with this is Rangers trying to bow-dps in groups (where mez is being used), and I think they'll do more DPS with weapons until getting a much better bow.

Hopefully the illusion suggestion will help with your problem getting the Darkwood Long Bow, but you don't really give any good reasons for the other changes you suggest.
 
Warriors can get this quest done. Just raise your Surefall faction. I helped Nobart raise his to get his bow (barbarian, no idea on ogre, but if barbs can do it, there is no reason a wood elf shouldn't be able to). What you're proposing is to make it so there is no faction work. That's kind of silly.

I can see adding SK to the Darkwood Bow, since they are on the Voice of the Centaur.

As far as removing the AE component, you're stating yourself that you can get the reward easily. So you get an 18/25 bow that has a chance of making life miserable, and complaining you can't get the 12/30 one?

The higher benefits in stats for a "free" bow versus the AE component don't warrant a change from AE to single target, IMHO.
 
<Note: As a warrior, I only use a bow for pulling/tagging mobs anyway. Thus, this post is more about "why would the quest be this way" than "change it for me." I have already acquired another due to the issues.>

<Guiardo's post replies>

1. I do not see a reason why elves, especially wood elves, would be dubious to Surefall Glade...yet humans seem to not be. (Since Surefall Glade is all about protecting/working with nature.) How eco-friendly is Newport vs. Kelethin again, especially since SoD is based on "all races returning/rebuilding"?

2. Yes, as the Centaurs involved would be just as happy to provide you with a reward for helping them (they give you a symbol of friendship, and their trade is also reopened) as Surefall Glade would be.

3a. For quest logistics (A to B), I see your point and /could/ agree. However, if that were true, why can't all archery equippable classes use the item?

3b. If I go the route of not agreeing, then shadowknights should not be able to use the Voice of the Centaur bow either. Further, both bows should be "Human, Half Elf, etc." races only.

4. Then your SoD experience is much different than my years of Live experience, as well as my friend's experience with AoE casting in Blackburrow, Mielech, and Warrens in SoD. (A wizard in my regular group.) The rule for me has always been "don't use any AoE's except 1 time PBAoE's and AoE mezes in dungeons." Rains and mob targeted (where the mob is against the wall) AoEs may always go through floors and walls.

<lynnettell's post>

1. The surefall faction is the problem, as there doesn't appear to be a low level way to up said faction. (And, this quest is a low level quest.) From discussion in Dalaya's Beginners, to my research on the Wiki, the only way it seems to up Glade faction is to kill one specific npc. (Through several mid-level zones.) All other ways are already dependent on one being apprehensive or better to the Glade already. (I and the people in the guild on that day participating may have missed a way, I'll admit.)

2. <No reply needed.>

3. As stated, I am a warrior looking for the bow. (So, the dmg/delay actually doesn't matter to me.) <It could be 1 /100 for all I care, I want the range.> As for the difference in the bows, uping ones faction to be able to complete the Voice of the Centaur quest would take time...but is "easy" except for the time component. (Especially if you don't have a high level tracker available.)

With the number of other bows available in the 10s/20s/30s for the purposes of pulling (not Ranger damaging in groups), the lack of any stats on the 12/30 is enough of a balance in my opinion. Further, as I stated earlier, my experience has been quite different in regard to AoEs.

4. The bow isn't "free" due to the faction work (time) required to up Centaur faction, as well as having to kill a mob for the actual quest. (If this argument is used, then all quest obtainable items <IE: Not bought with platinum or directly dropped from a mob> should come with penalties as well.)
 
What method did you use to up Surefall Faction Kero? The only one that I am aware that works is berries for Boppit, and you need to start higher than dubious to do said quest, or perhaps have a ambassador's writ...
 
Killing the evil clerics in Underhill is the first one I remember. Also, I *thought* that the gnolls in BB were going to get their Surefall faction back (it got broken about midway through his quest, so went the Underhill route).

Once you get past dubious, then you can do the berries.

Almost every quest, except newbie quests, involve faction of some sort.
 
lynnettell said:
Killing the evil clerics in Underhill is the first one I remember. Also, I *thought* that the gnolls in BB were going to get their Surefall faction back (it got broken about midway through his quest, so went the Underhill route).

Once you get past dubious, then you can do the berries.

Almost every quest, except newbie quests, involve faction of some sort.
Click to expand...


None of those work. Clerics in Underhill do not give Surefall faction (they give Newport Cleric/Pally faction though) and Blackburrow gnolls used to give Centaur faction, but they give no positive faction now afaik.

Rotbringer in SBL used to give +Surefall faction of some sort, but no longer.
 
luciferblack said:
None of those work. Clerics in Underhill do not give Surefall faction (they give Newport Cleric/Pally faction though) and Blackburrow gnolls used to give Centaur faction, but they give no positive faction now afaik.

Rotbringer in SBL used to give +Surefall faction of some sort, but no longer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is what I had found aswell, so this whole quest becomes even harder, as there is no easy way to gain faction with surefall..
 
Exactly my point...

There is practically no way to get a reward for the quest if you do not have Glade apprehensive + faction, despite the ability to do the quest from the Centaurs directly (who are quite happy for you to help them.)

If people think that giving the bow as a quest reward is overpowered (simply because the Glade doesn't like you), a method of turning in the symbol of friendship should be placed with the Centaurs in order to at least get xp/coin.

As it stands, for all intents and purposes, you completed the quest...but get nothing for it.
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
Maybe more a race issue, since my Human warrior completed this long ago without any problem. Try getting a human illusion from an enchanter.....
Click to expand...

Enchanter illusion also does not correct the problem. (Human & Half Elf tried)

Thus, despite being nature friendly as well as "doing all the work for the quest," there is not anyway for someone who starts dubious with Surefall Glade to receive a reward/xp for the first quest. (Since, there is not anyway to up faction with Surefall Glade that currently works.)
 
I tested the "ambassador's writ + berries to boppit" method and this aswell did not work. It appears as though there is currently no way to raise surefall faction.
 
Thats really annoying. In the past there has been disscussion about factions and people just generally accept "if you fucked up your faction sucks to be you."
However when your not KOS to a faction i think there needs to be a way to raise it.
p.s. put faction back on BB gnolls
 
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