Pure Melee -- Monk/Rogue

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episom

Dalayan Beginner
I'm about to start a pure melee and undecided between Monk and Rogue and would welcome some insightful assessment of both classes. Vistachiri did a good writeup on Bards here: http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146685&postcount=2.

I played both to some extend on live and know the generals. For this world I'd be more interested in things like how wanted both are (pickup groups, guilds, raids), how well they get along alone (monk can solo, what does a rogue do in the lfg time) etc.
 
I'd say there are more monks than rogues on the server. But really, both are really good classes. They both suck at soloing tho, but this is a mmorpg, so soloing doesnt fit well in here. For groups they're both very usefull.
 
starting out both will suck for soloing, rogues more then monks. Seems the server has a lot of monks on it so might be better to play a rogue. Also rogue dps will be sweeter then monk in the long run so that is something to consider.
 
i'd go with a monk, and if you really want to stick out... go human. seems about 70%+ of monks on the server are Iksar. However Rogues are great as well, but as i said. i would choose the Monk.
 
Rogue:
Excellent mellee dps - Will do VERY high consistent dps that is sustainable until you die.
You will find it very hard to solo, and hard to duo. Because of your never ending high dps, groups will be eager to recruit you. That being said, your pretty SoL without a group. Pretty worthless as a tank, and your dps will be bad if you are facing the mob. Once you get a fair number of aa's, you can get the ability "escape" which will allow you to instant drop all agro from any mob. This will allow you to die somewhat less frequently than most classes.

Monk:
Good mellee dps - Will do considerable consistent dps that is sustainable until you die.
You will find it difficult to solo, but decent at duoing. Groups will enjoy having you because of your ability to split tough pulls, good sustainable dps, and the ability to tank/take hits if your gear is decent. It will be in your best interest to group or duo. Furthermore, you can tank/offtank well at the high end. Also because of your ability to feign death, you can escape many deaths.

Difference:
Rogue is the mega mellee dps for raid/groups. Can't beat it. Monk is far more versatile (can take hits/tank), and split, but a bit less dps.
Essentially your trading your ability to take hits and split for more dps by going with a rogue over a monk.


Demand:
Groups/Raids: Rogues/Monks are in equal demand.

When I played, there were more monks then rogues. Thus, the rogues that do play are generally more sought after. However, I would recommend playing whichever you enjoy most.

Another note on raids: You can raid fine without a rogue. But if your raid lacks a puller, it can seriously slow down the raid and/or put it at a higher risk of wiping. Thus, monks are nearly mandatory, whereas a rogue can be replaced by any other dps class (generally at a slight loss of dps).


In your time lfg:
You will be jerking around for the most part on both classes. More so as a rogue than a monk (who has the ability to duo) and will solo far better than a rogue. When farming, a monk will be far superior to a rogue. There are also a few niches where a monk can solo to make decent xp/money.
 
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hmm... it pains me to see Monk < Rogues in DPS category. guess i should finally accept it
 
Monks can pump out decent dps if you have the motivation to hit the end game.

As far as Human vs Iksar goes, play Iksar.

Human monks are a joke.
 
There really is not incentive to be a Human monk end game. XP penalty doesnt matter end game, where as the Human downfalls are there forever. No one wants to be night blind
 
Thank you all for the replies so far. There's two more, maybe minor, points I was wonderning about.

1) Assist Penalty
On Necro I noticed that I get a huge penalty when I FD in fight. I guess it's the same with monk FD? So you have no way to manage agro without penalizing your group?

2) Pick Lock
From what I read treasure hunts require a lock pick. Is that something that'll bring you more invites?
 
episom said:
2) Pick Lock
From what I read treasure hunts require a lock pick. Is that something that'll bring you more invites?
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Not having your lock pick maxed for your level and trying to do tmaps will result in you being yelled at and a huge waste of time for the group (unless someone bashes it heh)

I think you can safely bash up to moderate maps (Middle of the tmap spectrum at 65~) but a rogue who says they will pick a vd map or whatever and doesn't have the skill will quickly end up on everyone's shitlist.

The skill is really easy to raise too, so there is no excuse to not have it done
 
episom said:
Thank you all for the replies so far. There's two more, maybe minor, points
1) Assist Penalty
On Necro I noticed that I get a huge penalty when I FD in fight. I guess it's the same with monk FD? So you have no way to manage agro without penalizing your group?
Click to expand...

you can feign most of the time in groups without a problem. Just stand back up right away. Sometimes you'll get tagged with a small assistance penalty. Something every monk on the server wishes they'd remove again, but they wont.
 
Cinn said:
you can feign most of the time in groups without a problem. Just stand back up right away. Sometimes you'll get tagged with a small assistance penalty. Something every monk on the server wishes they'd remove again, but they wont.
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Someone once said that if you have done the most DPS on a mob overall (after the fight is done) and you FD'd meanwhile XP penalty occurs. Unsure if this is really the truth or not but since this was implemented to counter powerleveling it might be the reason for it. Last info was it won't change so you might encounter it every now and then.
 
The assistance penalty was put in place to keep you from almost killing a mob with an FD class then feigning and letting a low level toon get then kill. I'm not sure how it works specifically, but I never see this happening when a monk stays down for an entire kill or uses FD in a group to manage aggro.
 
Zaela said:
Feigning early is more or less workable from what I've experienced (admittedly not much!). If your tank is half decent and you feign at, say, 70-60% in a group, they should be able to hold aggro against you for the rest of the fight, in normal circumstances.
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Pretty much it.
 
regardless its still a problem for high end monks who generate stupid amounts of agro and have to feign constantly to keep mobs off of them. I normally just let cinn tank because it hurts the group more if I feign, which seems kind of broken imho considering its our only way to manage agro.

Anyway, not a terribly huge issue, but man oh man would it be nice if the staff could remove it and just ban anyone abusing the system to powerlevel characters.

Too bad that will never happen.
 
yeah, no real way to manage that way :(
cant really monitor anyone PLing at all times, would have to mainly depend on player reports and such.
 
Cinn said:
Monks can pump out decent dps if you have the motivation to hit the end game.

As far as Human vs Iksar goes, play Iksar.

Human monks are a joke.
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Sure monks w/ max tomes and the best known weapons in the game can do really good damage. They can also easily tank/off-tank in exp groups. This makes em pretty insane at the high end.

BUT

A rogue at the high end, w/ best known weapons and max tomes is going to be pumping out purely retarded amounts of damage.

The ultra high end rogue will definatly be able to take hits. For example, if arraz pulls agro when we are xping there really isn't a concern of him dying. The concern is more of, we're losing dps and having a less efficient tank.

ALTHOUGH

I will say that the % increase in dps that a rogue has over a monk isn't the same % increase in monk tanking ability. If it were a ratio, the monk would easily come out ahead.
 
guess the real arguement would be "do you want insane DPS end game (if you plan to get there) or a little more versatility for the sacrifice of an amount of DPS?"

Rogues have a small variety of purpose. DPS and Lockpick is usually just about it. Maybe maybe... take a few hits.

Monks may not be the "best" DPS ever, however its still good. Can pull, off tank (depending), split, and more.

honestly, i've never played a rogue past lvl 15 or so... but i have played a monk to 70 or so on Live. So that being said im probably a little biased here.1
 
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