PoW Loot

[Cinn]

discussion originally started in http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=12115.0
Made its own thread to avod hijacking

Maybe there is an issue with pow loot being overpowered for its level?

I think this might also be the case. I'd have to stare at alot of loot for a long period of time to get some finalization but i'll try and list some examples.

That being said if you have a reason the adjudicator loot is overpowered other than that I would have no problem considering changing it. Just keep in mind its the final boss of the zone and is above arbitor of air. Its loot reflects that.

While he may be statistically harder then AoA, 1 person not paying attention on arbiter can wipe the entire raid. The level of attention and skill required for AoA is, in my opinion, way higher then the level of attention and skill required to complete the Abjudicator encounter. AoA also must be won in a set ammount of time due to the unavoidable mana drain. The clear to AoA is also WAY more of a pain in the ass then the clear to Adjudicator, and while Abdujicator may be in actuality a longer clear, it's a clear rampant with boss encounters and sellable loot dropping trash mobs. The frequency of the trash drops in PoW is also far higher from what experiance I have with the zone then its Air counterpart.

As for a "to get things started" loot comparison. Here is the progression of tank breastplate stats in order of obtainability, going from Tortured Plate (PoT trash) -> King Rymaz -> Abjudicator -> and Ending at Mirror Golems.

--

Tortured Plate Bulwark
45ac
5str, 15sta, 5agi, 5dex, 8wis, 8int, 75hp,
10sv pr, 10sv dr

Dropped from random trash in Plane of Torment
Rarity: Uncommon.
Accessability: Zone in. Kill the torhogs.

--

Stormbreaker Plate
58ac
10str, 25sta, 5wis, 5int, 100hp, 50mana,
10sv all.

Dropped from King Rymaz Sunbane, entry level raid encounter
Rarity: Super Short-Bus Retard-Crew Rare. Can easily go 10+ kills without ever seeing it. The BP is on a seperate loottable that the king only drops on occasions, also when he DOES drop a BP, it has the possiblity of being Leather Chain or Plate
Accessability: 30 Minute clear tops to him from zone in.

--

Combine Platemail Breastplate
60ac
Effect: Blessing of the Combine
15str, 15sta, 8agi, 10wis, 10int, 8chr, 160hp, 140mana,
15sv mr fr cr, 5sv pr dr

Quested from Prison
Rarity: Need Ally Giant/Dragon Faction (long timesink), Need Normal Gems, Get First set of armor (Aged Runic BP another huge Timesink). Then you need NDHK/Storms Eye Gems (more timesink), Get second armor. Farm gems in OP (really rare). or farm gems in IP (common, but you're already passed mirror golems). Turn in the Prison Gems with your Ornate Draconic or Stormforged Armor and BLAMO combine.
Accessability: holy mother of god timesink

--

Plate of Judgement
60ac
Effect: Freezing Blast
20str, 25sta, 20agi, 20dex, 145hp, 90mana
30sv cr
Damage reduction +3
Aggression +3

Dropped from Abjudicator of the Depths. End boss of Plane of Water, Debatably 1/2 to 1 tier above Plane of Air.
Rarity: Saw one drop on the third kill. No idea on the percentage of this drop. I would HOPE it would be pretty rare.
Accessibility: End boss of Plane of Water, Takes about as long to clear as air. Alot more worthwhile bosses to hit along the way.

--

Reflective Plate of Confoundment
65ac
Effect: Mirror Shield
30str, 30sta, 20agi, 20dex, 15wis, 15int, 165hp, 100mana
35mr
Damage Reduction: +8

Dropped from Mirror Golems, the second to last boss in Outer Prison. Mirror Golems in comparison to Abjudicator are infinatly harder and complex. There is no comparison.
Rarity: Super Rare. Steel has killed them tons of times and only seen two.
Accessibility: 15 minute clearish to get to them.

--

The Differance between Mirror BP and Plate of Confoundment?
5ac, 5sta, 20hp, 5 damage reduction
35mr instead of 30cr
self Rune proc instead of a 110dd stun proc
you also LOSE +3 aggression going to mirror bp.

There are other points to be made about the comparison between the PoW bp and the combine BP, along with the rest, but I'll leave that to others to discuss.

This isn't just about one item though.

I would have to look at more loot tables, but from what ive seen thus far from both zones, I am failing to see any reason whatsoever that a guild would want to progress and gear inside the Sepulcher of Darkness, other then to get keyed for CoD. The zone is infinatly harder than its wet counterpart and the loot pales in comparison. At this very moment in time water is squelching out the former methods of advancment by offering better loot in ALL CATEGORIES for players to obtain. There is absolutly no reason to raid any other zone at that teir besides water. The ammount of upgrades on all slots is staggering. The difficulity is not as hard as it has been made out to be.

 

[Jun]

Bulwark of Malice (Ritualist in CoD)
30ac
Healing Inc 6
FT1
12sta 25wis 20cha 135hp 165m
12FR / 12DR

vs.

Robe of the Prophet (Jud in PoWater)
35ac
Dmg Inc 5
FT1
Meditate +5
10sta 15int 15wis 20cha 100hp 130m

 

[Rurho]

PoW
Deep Water Mantle
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: SHOULDERS
AC: 15
Effect: Flowing Thought I (Worn)
Focus Effect: Companion Health VI
STA: +15 WIS: +18 INT: +18 CHA: +15 HP: +130 MANA: +135
Stun Resist: +1%
WT: 2.3 Size: MEDIUM
Class: CLR DRU SHM WIZ NEC MAG ENC
Race: ALL
Slot 1; Type: 5

Thaz Tower
Flowing Crimson Shawl
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: SHOULDERS
AC: 18
Effect: Flowing Thought I (Worn)
STA: +14 INT: +17 CHA: +22 HP: +125 MANA: +185
WT: 1.8 Size: SMALL
Class: WIZ NEC MAG ENC
Race: ALL
Slot 1; Type: 5

 

[Jun]

Earring of the Bound Heavens (Taeshlin in OP)
Casting Speed Inc 6
Clicky Heavenstorm (4500ishDD every 12 hours or so)
25sta 15cha 120mana
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

vs

Tear of Tarhansar (PoWater)
Ear or Range
5ac
Mana Con 6
10wis 10int 15cha 100hp 115m
20cr
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

 

[Llanoldar Lluindar]

While he may be statistically harder then AoA, 1 person not paying attention on arbiter can wipe the entire raid. The level of attention and skill required for AoA is, in my opinion, way higher then the level of attention and skill required to complete the Abjudicator encounter. AoA also must be won in a set ammount of time due to the unavoidable mana drain. The clear to AoA is also WAY more of a pain in the ass then the clear to Adjudicator, and while Abdujicator may be in actuality a longer clear, it's a clear rampant with boss encounters and sellable loot dropping trash mobs. The frequency of the trash drops in PoW is also far higher from what experiance I have with the zone then its Air counterpart.

1. Arbiter has no adds that you need to manage.
2. Arbiter doesn't require group healing.
3. Arbiter isn't underwater.
4. Clear to arbiter is much easier.
5. Water loot isn't sellable anymore.
6. Trash drops more in PoW, but Air trash is good whereas Water trash is not. There's 1 good trash item from water so far, and its only for int casters. Air: Beads, CDV, pants are ok, Battle Bands, etc. Air trash good, water trash not TIA.
7. Air trash drops more money loot, water drops more spells. BALANCE.
8. One person not healing or not getting the adds on Adjudicator can wipe the raid just as easily as someone porting a key class on Arbiter.

 

[Jun]

Water Dragon Breeches
Focus Effect: Focus of Frost (Apparently 8% Fire?)
FT1
5sta 5agi 5cha 115hp 115m
5fr 5cr 5mr
Mind Sheild 1%


MoTG Ruby is 5% Fire, Globe of Lava (THAZ) is 8% Fire, if it is meant to be Cold Farg Boots in IP are 8% Cold. The Focus effect on these makes them better than Versikol Pants easily IMO. (Fomelo Tomil for them.)

 

[Thinkmeats]

:monocle:

 

[Ginam]

Kelp Sewn Cloak


[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: SHOULDERS BACK
Instrument Modifier: Singing (2.0)
AC: +26
STR: +5 STA: +10 DEX: +5 AGI: +10 HP: +90 MANA: +90
CR: +15
Critical Strike: +1%
WT: 0.6 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD MNK BRD ROG BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1; Type: 5

Singing mod is by far the most useful mod, zorez'ad is only 1.8.
Seraphic voice is 1.8, but its binding you to a weapon. The proc on the weapon lowers bard dps a fair amount, due to
A) Dieing
B) having to sing song of dawn

Ginam

 

[Jun]

1. Arbiter has no adds that you need to manage.
2. Arbiter doesn't require group healing.
3. Arbiter isn't underwater.
4. Clear to arbiter is much easier.
5. Water loot isn't sellable anymore.
6. Trash drops more in PoW, but Air trash is good whereas Water trash is not. There's 1 good trash item from water so far, and its only for int casters. Air: Beads, CDV, pants are ok, Battle Bands, etc. Air trash good, water trash not TIA.
7. Air trash drops more money loot, water drops more spells. BALANCE.
8. One person not healing or not getting the adds on Adjudicator can wipe the raid just as easily as someone porting a key class on Arbiter.

This doesn't even address the main issue.

 

[Waldoff]

The pants are 2% cold. Where the hell are you getting your information.

Big post inc

 

[Ginam]

No, they're type 2% which is fire focus

 

[Waldoff]

they are 2% fire until the next patch when the spell is being fixed.

Then it will be 2% cold.


Edit- Let me rephrase. They are MEANT to be 2% cold. if they arent 2% please let me know as something went wrong with the spell. The fire-cold thing is being changed next patch.

 

[iaeolan]

Kelp Sewn Cloak


[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: SHOULDERS BACK
Instrument Modifier: Singing (2.0)
AC: +26
STR: +5 STA: +10 DEX: +5 AGI: +10 HP: +90 MANA: +90
CR: +15
Critical Strike: +1%
WT: 0.6 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD MNK BRD ROG BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1; Type: 5

Singing mod is by far the most useful mod, zorez'ad is only 1.8.
Seraphic voice is 1.8, but its binding you to a weapon. The proc on the weapon lowers bard dps a fair amount, due to
A) Dieing
B) having to sing song of dawn

Ginam

Lets remind everyone pot4 is singing

This also is 2 slot, so you can choose which slot you will get gimped less on because you would be essentially bound to this item (like all inst weapons, seraphic voice, ect)

 

[Cinn]

1. Arbiter has no adds that you need to manage.

You're right, they also have minimal HP. In return for the adds you have an unavoidable mana drain making the fight a set duration and a debuff that will port you and whoever you're around completely out of the encounter. Not really a fair trade imo

2. Arbiter doesn't require group healing.

You're right, because the arbiter does so much DPS for that teir that you need everyone focused on your main taink.

3. Arbiter isn't underwater.

you cast one buff before the encounter that dosnt get dispelled. You would cast this buff anyway. It's called EOTW. this isnt really a valid point

4. Clear to arbiter is much easier.

This is debatable. The 4 mephit pull is a pain in the ass for most guilds. While it is shorter you also dont get to hit every boss in the entire zone directly in your path before you get to him, as you do in PoW.

5. Water loot isn't sellable anymore.

Ok.

6. Trash drops more in PoW, but Air trash is good whereas Water trash is not. There's 1 good trash item from water so far, and its only for int casters. Air: Beads, CDV, pants are ok, Battle Bands, etc. Air trash good, water trash not TIA.

The coral tipped wand is a very good trash drop. I'll have to pull up some items to compare it to in a few. (was informed coral tipped wand isnt a trash drop, will leave the original text here for the sake of flaming me on it though)


7. Air trash drops more money loot, water drops more spells. BALANCE.

That's fine, the issue isnt with money loot or spells. It's from the nodrop named encounter items. Balance is good

8. One person not healing or not getting the adds on Adjudicator can wipe the raid just as easily as someone porting a key class on Arbiter.

And one person not healing on arbiter can wipe the raid also. One person not healing in an exp group can wipe the exp group. This point isnt even really a point, It's more of a common sense thing. Ok, thanks, we now know that people not playing there class will be very hazerdous to the encounter.

 

[Valero]

Earring of the Bound Heavens (Taeshlin in OP)
Casting Speed Inc 6
Clicky Heavenstorm (4500ishDD every 12 hours or so)
25sta 15cha 120mana
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

vs

Tear of Tarhansar (PoWater)
Ear or Range
5ac
Mana Con 6
10wis 10int 15cha 100hp 115m
20cr
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

Also compare to:

DREAMSTONE TRINKET (Versikol, CoD Boss)
Ear
8wis 8sta 8int 12cha 75hp 120mana
5pr 5mr 5dr
Effect: Channeling Focus.
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

Also first MCVI item you can get I think (iirc) are CoD shoulders which drops from a mob that is at the end of the area (Ritualist).

 

[Gaerek]

If anything makes SoD more trivial then before it is 2.0.

That being said here are my personal opinions on water.

1. None of you have raided water, except to test one mob, therefore you have no idea what it takes to clear the zone or how hard any of the mobs are. Granted Cinn has boxed our MT for the boss but that in itself gives no real clue as to how hard the fight really is.

2. Master of the Gates is easier then the Guardian of the Caverns and Adjudicator. His loots are better than both of the previous mentioned bosses. ( Exluding the pants: Which we know are broken and are waiting to be fixed. )

3. Arbiter of Airs earing is still used by guilds in Thaz, his pants were used by Junius - Monk useable pants drop in CoD and I know Junius has passed on them, so please nerf AoA pants too! Since Adjudicator is harder then AoA his loots should be better.

4. Prophet Robe - Which has only dropped once out of six kills, is a very nice robe. The mob who has a comparable unwallable mana drain to the AoA. And who COMPLETELY drains your mana at 10%. ( Not to mention Steel wiped to Prophet 3x when testing him and he hasn't been changed. )

I think we have been doing water for 2.5 weeks, our first attempts at Adjudicator failed, when we first started doing Guardian we had to use CoTB to win, now after 16 Raids on various planes/supulcher/op we can do Guardian without CotB. And we have to use CoTB on Adjudicator to win.

Sultan who drops the best primary for a priest UNTIL Thaz, I end the fight at 95 mana. Arbiter of Air I end the fight at 10-15m. Seductress I end the fight at 40m. None of waters loots are more powerful then any of these mobs, Yet all these mobs are much easier to beat. So maybe Wiz can work up some sort of raid force that resembled Dandys 2.5 weeks ago, and you guys can give it a go and see how you do.

The bottom line is, there is lots of new content coming out, and there are going to be loots that are better because they can't not put upgrades or else no one will do the content. Get. Over. It.

Edit: If we could find OP up, I think we could clear ALL of it.

 

[Valero]

1. None of you have raided water, except to test one mob, therefore you have no idea what it takes to clear the zone or how hard any of the mobs are. Granted Cinn has boxed our MT for the boss but that in itself gives no real clue as to how hard the fight really is.

Well, you neither know how is about clearing all Sepulcher (including the 6 pull) and killing the boss mob and then clearing all CoD to get to Versikol and killing him (which it is not an easy fight) to get an earring that is on par with the Tarhansar one (I would even choose Tarhansar one over Versikol one)

 

[Gaerek]

Yeah because I havn't cleared all of Sepulcher when I was guilded with Steel, botting Sadira/Lufia. Or CoD, or IP, or Mirrors, Or Taeshlin, Or the Earth mini, or the water mini, you are right, I have not done any of that content!!

 

[Jun]

If anything makes SoD more trivial then before it is 2.0.

That being said here are my personal opinions on water.

1. None of you have raided water, except to test one mob, therefore you have no idea what it takes to clear the zone or how hard any of the mobs are. Granted Cinn has boxed our MT for the boss but that in itself gives no real clue as to how hard the fight really is.

2. Master of the Gates is easier then the Guardian of the Caverns and Adjudicator. His loots are better than both of the previous mentioned bosses. ( Exluding the pants: Which we know are broken and are waiting to be fixed. )

3. Arbiter of Airs earing is still used by guilds in Thaz, his pants were used by Junius - Monk useable pants drop in CoD and I know Junius has passed on them, so please nerf AoA pants too! Since Adjudicator is harder then AoA his loots should be better.

4. Prophet Robe - Which has only dropped once out of six kills, is a very nice robe. The mob who has a comparable unwallable mana drain to the AoA. And who COMPLETELY drains your mana at 10%. ( Not to mention Steel wiped to Prophet 3x when testing him and he hasn't been changed. )

I think we have been doing water for 2.5 weeks, our first attempts at Adjudicator failed, when we first started doing Guardian we had to use CoTB to win, now after 16 Raids on various planes/supulcher/op we can do Guardian without CotB. And we have to use CoTB on Adjudicator to win.

Sultan who drops the best primary for a priest UNTIL Thaz, I end the fight at 95 mana. Arbiter of Air I end the fight at 10-15m. Seductress I end the fight at 40m. None of waters loots are more powerful then any of these mobs, Yet all these mobs are much easier to beat. So maybe Wiz can work up some sort of raid force that resembled Dandys 2.5 weeks ago, and you guys can give it a go and see how you do.

The bottom line is, there is lots of new content coming out, and there are going to be loots that are better because they can't not put upgrades or else no one will do the content. Get. Over. It.

1. So because we haven't done PoWater, we should assume it is harder than Sepulcher and closer to CoD difficulty?
2. MoTG loot has been stated as overpowered intentionally many times. You should know this by now.
3. I passed on the legs in CoD due to the AoA legs being my only haste item :dumb: Either way this point doesn't argue PoWater at all and just seems spiteful.
4. You can't argue drop rate really on only 6 kills (Not to mention how many Ritualist kills did it take for Steel to get one?)

Good point on the Sultan Wand though, it should probably be nerfed.

Yeah because I havn't cleared all of Sepulcher when I was guilded with Steel, botting Sadira/Lufia. Or CoD, or IP, or Mirrors, Or Taeshlin, Or the Earth mini, or the water mini, you are right, I have not done any of that content!!

Yea, so you should know better, and quit making senseless arguments.

 

[Waldoff]

**First off I would like to say that I welcome all opinions on any of the loot I do. It is incredibly hard to add new content and different forms of encounters and balance the loot and I do appreciate comments whether negative or positive.**

Going to respond to each of these in turn. Further comments/suggestions are welcome though.

For those who have not been to water think of it like starting at Windrider and ending at Blissfull/OP

First the adjudicator ones. Keep in mind this is an OP lvl encounter equivilant to just below blissfull in air.

PoW
Deep Water Mantle
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: SHOULDERS
AC: 15
Effect: Flowing Thought I (Worn)
Focus Effect: Companion Health VI
STA: +15 WIS: +18 INT: +18 CHA: +15 HP: +130 MANA: +135
Stun Resist: +1%
WT: 2.3 Size: MEDIUM
Class: CLR DRU SHM WIZ NEC MAG ENC
Race: ALL
Slot 1; Type: 5

Thaz Tower
Flowing Crimson Shawl
[MAGIC ITEM][LORE ITEM][NO DROP]
Slot: SHOULDERS
AC: 18
Effect: Flowing Thought I (Worn)
STA: +14 INT: +17 CHA: +22 HP: +125 MANA: +185
WT: 1.8 Size: SMALL
Class: WIZ NEC MAG ENC
Race: ALL
Slot 1; Type: 5


This one is an issue with mantles in general. You not only have to look up but look down the hierarchy as well. Originally the deep water mantle was 20 mana less and had less stats. This made people angry because it was almost a clone of the WR mantle which is much much much easier to get. With the thaz mantle you fain a shitload of stats and mana and although pet classes may want the deep water mantle more I think that is an issue with pet focuses lacking in the high end in general (something the devs are trying to fix). If this one is to be changed I think it would be more of a tweaking of all mantles after the corpse eater one.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Earring of the Bound Heavens (Taeshlin in OP)
Casting Speed Inc 6
Clicky Heavenstorm (4500ishDD every 12 hours or so)
25sta 15cha 120mana
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

vs

Tear of Tarhansar (PoWater)
Ear or Range
5ac
Mana Con 6
10wis 10int 15cha 100hp 115m
20cr
CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC

Although this one has some merit the earing off taeshlin is basically tuned way way down because of the clicky it gives access to. Having a taeshlin clicky on all those who can use it ups raid DPS substantially. Lets take a look at an earing on a tier below (or equiv) to adjud and 2 tiers below adjud.

This is from a mob in DHK that is extremely easy and 1 groupable.

Gashalla's Fang

MAGIC LORE NO DROP

Mana: +125
Str: +15
Sta: +15
Agi: +15
Sv Fire: +10
Sv Disease: +10
Sv Cold: +10
Sv Magic: +10
Sv Poison: +10
Slot: EAR
Ac: 20
Weight: 0.5
Race List: ALL
Class List: ALL
Size: Tiny

and here is one from Sepulcher that is near the same tier as adjud although I would say adjud is harder in general.

Fasal's Tear

MAGIC LORE NO DROP

Hp: +90
Mana: +100
Str: +9
Agi: +9
Wis: +12
Intel: +12
Sv Fire: +4
Sv Disease: +4
Sv Cold: +4
Sv Magic: +4
Sv Poison: +4
Slot: EAR
Weight: 0.1
Size: Tiny
Race List: ALL
Class List: ALL
Ac: 8

Any substantial nerf to the earring off Adjud would basically put it identicle to either of these lesser raided earings. And if you want to look at a ranged perspective take a gander at blissfulls ranged. Adjudicator has nice look because it is the final encounter, is hard as hell (comparable to blissfull as I have said who has better loot in general) and takes 10 hours of clearing to get to. Those who have actually done the encounter and have done encounters in the OP range have approved of her loot for the most part because of the difficulty to get to and kill the mob.

EDIT- And comparing it to the Versikol or DOTO earing is equal to the Taeshlin earing. Items that substantially increase caster DPS like those three earings are rare as hell and are treated as such stat wise.

___________________________
On to adjudicators bp!

Now this one took some thinking! Ok. So like you printed you have the Stormkeep BP then Combine then MIrror. Combine is best because of its clicky. Combine is a requirment for a warrior no matter what the BP he wears is. Mirrors are only marginally harder than adjudicator (I would say adjud is about manis range) and the you will find the adjud BP to be similiarily rare.

___________________________

Bulwark of Malice (Ritualist in CoD)
30ac
Healing Inc 6
FT1
12sta 25wis 20cha 135hp 165m
12FR / 12DR

vs.

Robe of the Prophet (Jud in PoWater)
35ac
Dmg Inc 5
FT1
Meditate +5
10sta 15int 15wis 20cha 100hp 130m

This one actually has a lot of merit. The robe is rare but I will take this into consideration and might change it. The bulwark does have a more useful effect and mana/stats tho. See the funny part of itemizing new content that is supposed to fit between zones is that there are items on both sides that are better and worse than each other. Take for example -

Elder Dragon Hide Tunic

MAGIC LORE NO DROP

Hp: +120
Mana: +120
Str: +20
Dex: +12
Sta: +20
Agi: +12
Cha: +25
Wis: +25
Intel: +25
Ac: 40
Weight: 4.8
Size: Large
Race List: ALL
Slot: CHEST
Class List: CLE DRU SHM

Now a lot of people wouldnt even upgrade from this BP to the PoWater robe and this comes from an encounter 2 tiers below prophet. Anyway on this one I will think on it.

______________________________________________________________________________




Going to continue in a second post...