Patch Notes - August 10th, 2021

HEADLINES
  • Shadowknight and Paladin Discipline system rework.
  • Top end dungeon tweaks.
QUALITY OF LIFE - BUFFS
Now that a lot of the foundational systems have been implemented, we have been discussing ways to re-add the quality of life benefits that players enjoy, but within these new systems.

Players have expressed concerns with how variables to raid recovery times clash with the new buff system, the following change is designed to smooth this out.

Currently, buffs do not expire when a player is safe inside a city (eg. Athica while not in combat or PVP); this was a past quality of life addition. We have extended the "safe in city" rule to include areas that allow binding. An iconic example would be the bind location known as "tables" (or table if you're a purist).

DISCIPLINES
A six second lockout timer has been added to disciplines after a player swaps weapons.

TANK REBALANCE
As we move forward, we would like to explain where we see each tank ranked in different categories:

MITIGATION
Warriors would continue to be the best at physical mitigation with Paladins the worst. The caveat being, Paladins will now specialize further in spell mitigation to differentiate them.​
  • Physical Mitigation: Warrior (13%+) Shadow Knight (7%) Paladin (5%)
  • Spell Mitigation: Paladin (7%+)
AGGRO
Currently, the tank single target aggro order is not correct. Warriors are too low due to our weapon balance and Paladins are too high due to Zealous Might aggro multipliers.​
  • Single Target Aggro:
    • Shadow Knight: Single target aggro should be easy and efficient. Other raid members should be jolting rarely.
    • Paladin: Single target aggro should be the lowest of the three tanks. Other raid members should be jolting often.
    • Warrior: Warriors should be between Paladin and Shadowknight aggro, being closer to Paladins. Other raid members should be jolting sometimes.
  • Area of Effect Aggro:
    • Paladin: High aggro on 6+ targets. Easy and efficient to generate.
    • Warrior: Moderate aggro on current target and decent aggro on 2 to 3 other targets. Targets beyond this should produce noticeable aggro loss.
    • Shadowknight: Unbreakable aggro on a single target. Aggro on a second target should be moderate but need to be worked for. Targets beyond this should produce noticeable aggro loss.
SINGLE TARGET DPS WHILE TANKING
Warriors should always provide the largest DPS while tanking. Shadowknights should be second, closely followed by Paladins. Currently Paladins are doing too much single target tanking DPS due to Zealous Might multipliers.​

KNIGHT SHIELDING MASTERY
  • This AA has not been working, it was not adding its bonus to shields for knights (for at least 10 years). It now properly applies its bonus.
BASH
  • The bash damage formula now applies diminishing returns to bonus damage from shoulder and shield armor class as it increases.
  • Using bash currently applies a bonus aggro value that is equal to shield AC; knights receive a multiplier to this bonus value. For this patch, we have increased this multiplier. We feel that bash is an appropriate source for aggro for knights; it scales with level, gear and accuracy. By buffing this source we can spread out aggro generated by more absurd sources. This is one adjustment that will assist with the low level paladin aggro issues we have received from feedback.
WARRIOR
The aggro multiplier of bloodlust has been increased to put warriors in a more appropriate spot for aggro generation. This is an interim fix until warriors receive a full discipline rework.

PALADIN
All Paladin stances have been removed (including aggressive and defensive), and reworked or replaced with Disciplines. We see the Paladin as a hybrid between Warriors and Clerics. Clerics tend to be a bit more melee oriented in design, so Disciplines were also designed to accentuate this. Paladin will be the top healer of the three tanks both while tanking and as a raid utility. To differentiate the Paladin from the Shadowknight when it comes to mitigation, we have further advanced their Spell Mitigation theme. Paladin single target aggro was nerfed, while also increasing their area aggro generation. We have given the Paladin three tools to help with emergencies that arise from aggro:
  • A single target aggro information skill, similar to Jayla's Insight.
  • Fast casting target of target healing spells.
  • A unique taunt skill.
PALADIN DISCIPLINE ABILITIES
Paladins may purchase the following disciplines from the Paladin Guild. Be sure to explore for additional ranks!​
  • Pious Strike - Ranks I to VI. Strike an undead target, banishing their existence from this plane. Has a chance to weaken your target. Has a very rare chance to deal massive damage to your target.
  • Lady's Strike- Ranks I to VI. Bash your target with your shield, dealing physical damage and generating aggro to those around you. Deals additional damage to stunned targets. Requires a shield. This ability should bring low level paladin aggro to values that feel better while leveling. Because this ability is bash damage, it inherits the properties of bash.
    • It interrupts spells.
    • The damage can never crit.
    • Bonus aggro is generated against your primary target using the above BASH rule.
  • Cleansing Strike - Ranks I to VII. Channel a purifying flame into your weapon, striking your target with fire damage. Additional chance to deal a critical strike against Undead. Requires a two handed weapon. Consumes both stamina and mana.
  • Holy Inspiration - Read the tide of battle, gauging how close another player is to pulling aggression off you. Only works if you are the primary aggro to an enemy.
  • Moment of Truth - Ranks I to II. Force your enemy to focus its rage toward you. Only usable in combat. Must be in melee range.
PALADIN DISCIPLINE BUFFS
  • Bastion of Faith - Ranks I to III. The defense of the faithful, granting 3/4/5% melee mitigation and 3/5/7% spell mitigation.
  • Althuna's Fury - Ranks I to III. Faith exudes might! Your zeal carries you into battle, increasing melee damage but decreasing mitigation and aggro. Increases melee damage by 10/15/20%, increases melee damage taken by 5/7/10%, and reduces aggro generated by 5/10/15%.
ZEALOUS/RIGHTEOUS MIGHT REWORK
Due to Zealous and Righteous Might's impact on single target DPS and tanking aggro, these spells have been reworked. Althuna's Fury is intended to provide measured Paladin melee damage, while dissuading from use while tanking. Aggro loss has been distributed to Bash, healing, and Lady's Strike. These new healing spells accentuate the Paladin's healing and spell mitigation strengths.​
Inspire your target's target with the power of faith, healing them and mitigating spell damage for a duration. This buff will also heal them again on their next successful block.
  • Inspire Belief- Target's Target, 287 Base Heal, 1.5s cast, zero recast time, 3.5s recovery, 12s duration, 2% spell mitigation. (Reworked from Righteous Might)
    • Bestow Light - Fade on block, 95 Base Heal.
  • Runic: Inspire Faith- Target's Target, 691 Base Heal, 1.5s cast, zero recast time, 3.5s recovery, 12s duration, 3% spell mitigation. (Reworked from Zealous Might)
    • Bestow Faith - Fade on block, 399 Base Heal.
BLINDS
Blind spells can no longer be overwritten; freeing up a spell slot for some who used two. Paladin blind spells now lower dexterity instead of attack. The dexterity debuff value increases with spell rank. Additional lower level blinds have been added to assist the leveling paladin. Searing light gets a balance nerf as it was out of bounds numerically.​
  • Flash of Light - Decreases dexterity by 5.
  • Glint of Light - A new magic-resist blind purchasable at level 18. Decreases dexterity by 8. Has a magic-resist adjust.
  • Gleam of Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 5.
  • Fervid Light - A new fire-resist blind purchasable at level 45. Decreases dexterity by 12.
  • Blinding Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 16.
  • Wave of Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 10.
  • Searing Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 20. Mana cost increased to 120. Resist adjust lowered to 75. Direct Damage component removed.
STUNS
  • Words of the Righteous is a new single target stun available to Paladins to purchase in late game areas.
  • Descending Judgement has been reworked into Word of the Templar, an upgrade to Word of the Crusader. Descending Judgement provided a lot of a Paladin's aggro while also being predominantly hated by a large portion of developers and players.
HAND OF PIETY
The cooldown of Hand of Piety has been reduced to 20 minutes.​
HEALING AGGRO
Healing aggro generated by a Paladin using single target, self, or target's target healing spells has been slightly increased, outpacing other healer classes.​
DIVINE REFUSAL
The base healing has been increased to 17% (from 13%). Ranks of Divine Radiance further increase this amount. 20, 25, 33, 50%, (from 14, 17, 20, 25%). The AA description has been updated.​
Focuses your fighting spirit, increasing the chance to flurry against undead. Paladins will refuse to die from undead once every 24 hours. Ranks of this AA reduce the cooldown and increase the heal amount of this innate skill.
DIVINE STUN
The AA description has been updated to inform players that this spell generates aggro:​
Training in this ability gives you a new, fast-casting low-resist stun that work even on creatures immune to stun spells. Always generates a medium amount of aggro.
UNDEAD NUKE
Paladins may now learn Banish Undead at level 64. Literally the best buff, so I saved it for last. Nuke on.​
SHADOWKNIGHT
All Shadowknight stances have been removed (including aggressive and defensive), and reworked or replaced with Disciplines. We see Shadowknights as a hybrid between the Warrior and Necromancer classes. Because Necromancers are more spell oriented, Shadowknight Disciplines are not themed around weapon use. Damage Over Time spells were adjusted to play a core role in Shadowknight gameplay. Leech stance has been converted to a short cooldown ability, setting self-healing below Paladins, and above Warriors. A few tools were given to a Shadowknight to address mana sustain, being the cousin of a Necromancer. The mechanics of pet sacrificing should feel better:
  • Instant triggering
  • Failure messages describing when the ability requirements are not met
  • Introduced at lower levels
  • Pet clickies no longer allow for pet sacrificing, being replaced with a class skill
Lastly, a Shadowknight is the undisputed champion of Single Target aggro. Veil spells have been replaced, shifting aggro to new single target aggro tools.

INNATE DOT AGGRO
Shadowknights now have an innate bonus to aggro generated from damage over time sources. Spell casting subtlety for Shadowknights will now also apply to DoT aggro.​
VEXATION OF BLIGHTS
Each rank of this new AA further increases the aggro generated from damage over time sources. This AA also applies a multiplier to the Shadowknight's contribution to DoT Weakening. Excerpt from our forums detailing this mechanic:​
DOT WEAKENING
Weakening effect works by adding up all the damage done to a mob by DoTs in a single tick. For the remainder of that tick, the mob directly deals less damage in melee based on how much DoT damage it is taking in proportion to its HP.
LOW LEVEL DOTS
Low level DoT levels have been lowered to increase usability. New low level DoTs have been added to their repertoire. Adjacent spells shuffled to maintain 1 spell per level.​
  • Disease Cloud - Level 3 (from 5)
    • Locate Corpse - Level 5 (from 3)
  • Clinging Darkness - Level 9 (from 11)
    • Fear - Level 11 (from 12)
  • Fever - New, Level 12
  • Engulfing Darkness - Level 18 (from 20)
  • Heart Flutter - Level 21 (from 36)
  • Virulence - New, Level 30
  • Dooming Darkness - Level 33 (from 44)
  • Searing Blood - New, Level 42
  • Scourge - New, Level 45
  • Boil Blood - Level 48 (from 53)
  • Inflame Blood - New, Level 53
  • Asystole - Level 56 (from 60)
  • Cascading Darkness - Level 58 (from 59)
DISEASE DOT/DEBUFF REWORK
The following spell line has been adjusted and added to. Three of these spells replace the Shadowknight veil line.​
  • Heart Flutter - Duration lowered to 30s, mana cost reduced.
  • Arrhythmia - New, Level 34, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration. (Reworked from Veil of Dis)
  • Heart Panic - New, Level 44, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration. (Reworked from Veil of Marlow)
  • Asystole - Cast time reduced to 4.1s, duration lowered to 30s, mana cost reduced.
  • Cardiac Arrest - New, Level 65, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration.
  • Runic: Heart Possession - New, Runic Two, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration. (Reworked from Veil of Kaezul)
SCORCH BLOOD
A new fire DoT available to Shadowknights to purchase in late game areas.​

TERRORS
The cooldown has been removed from all terrors; freeing up a spell slot for some who used two.​
  • Terror of Gradalsh is a new terror available to Shadowknights to purchase in late game areas.
SHADOWKNIGHT DISCIPLINE ABILITIES
Shadowknights may purchase the following disciplines from the Shadowknight Guild. Be sure to explore for additional ranks!​
  • Meld Bone - Reap undeath from the fading of life, summoning your highest level pet from your spell book. If used on a target that is close to death, the cooldown of this ability will be lowered. Requires melee range.
  • Touch of Hatred - Ranks I to VII. Instill deep hatred upon your enemy, greatly increasing their aggro towards you. Requires melee range.
  • Festering Harvest - Ranks I to VII. Harvest the life of another through a festering touch. The life healed increases with the number of your afflictions on the target. Requires melee range.
  • Deceitful Doubt - Instill powerful doubt upon your enemy, dispelling a beneficial buff with a chance to interrupt spell casting. Requires melee range.
  • Pet: Edict of Pain- Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, imparting its strength to you for a duration.
  • Edict of Pain- A buff granting the Shadowknight a 500/1000 Delay Death life value, 15/25 Disease Resist and 1/2% physical mitigation.
    • Delay Death is most commonly known as "Purple Club", a negative life value that must be exhausted before a player dies.
  • Pet: Grave Pact - Ranks I and II. Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, restoring mana through it's undeath.
The following Discipline skills require ranks in Servant Training to use:​
  • Pet: Noxious Blast - Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, causing disease damage to nearby foes.
  • Pet: Reaper's Touch - Commands your Pet to sacrifice itself, Draining HP from its target and giving it to your group
  • Pet: Ritual of Gore - Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, mesmerizing nearby foes in a spectacle of gore.
  • Pet: Withering Curse - Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, infecting its target with an incremental damage over time spell. This ability counts towards Festering Harvest's heal.
Meld Bone and each sacrifice skill have their own cooldown timer.​

SHADOWKNIGHT DISCIPLINE BUFFS
  • Shadow of Marlow - Ranks I to III. You fade slightly into the realm of dreams, granting 5/6/7% melee mitigation.
  • Putrid Aura - Ranks I to III. You are wreathed in a caustic aura, increasing the damage of all your damage over time spells by 25/50/100% but decreasing melee mitigation by 5/7/10% and aggro by 10/25/50%.
  • Spirit Anchor - Merge your energies with the spirits of the dead, guarding yourself from detrimental mana drains. Mitigates mana drains with a value less than one fourth your maximum mana.
  • Terror Guard - Wreathe yourself in nightmares, enthralling all those who strike you in combat.
FLAYING STRIKES
This AA now increases damage dealt to Ancient and Young races in addition to Humanoid Monsters.​
SHROUD OF THE LICH
Weapon proc moved to slot 5 to allow for more usability.​
UTILITY BENEFICIAL: CONVERSION
Deathly Temptation mana regen increased to 12, health decay increased to 12.​
NECROMANCER
  • Deathly Temptation is now available to purchase at level 40 as a nice step between Call of Bones and Lich.
DRUID
  • Cataclysm mana cost increased.
ROGUE
  • LOIO and Refuge discipline vendor costs have been lowered.
  • A poison vendor has been added to Kelethin, and the poison vendor in The Mountain Crags of Tarhyl has been updated.
  • Nimble Dance duration extended to 10s.
  • Crippling Point now has a vendor cost.
  • Fixed a bug that prevented Concealed Blades AA from working.
  • Gutsy Gambol movement speeds increased slightly. Stamina costs decreased slightly.
  • Wisterol has been re-added to Poison Merchant to allow continued crafting of Savage Frenzy for Marlow quest.
ENCHANTER
  • The duration of the Misdirection line of spells has been doubled.
SPELLS
  • Cleric symbols, Savagery, and Reagent conservation descriptions corrected.
  • Razadian Conservation has been corrected, setting its value at 25%.
  • Flash Powder Ranks I to III correctly state which reagent they require.
  • Flash Powder Rank III now correctly requires a "Flash Powder" reagent.
  • Suffocate, Gasping Embrace, Torment of Gnyrt, Asphyxiate, Chokehold, and Misery of the Swamp spell descriptions updated.
  • Critical Precision spell description updated.
TOP END DUNGEONS

GLOBAL CHARM CREDITS
Initially we only allowed charm credits to drop from enemies with a respawn timer greater than 30 minutes. Based on feedback and additional data, the following changes have been made. A linear drop adjustment has been added because we want to reward more difficult play.​
  • Respawn limit has been lowered to 20 minutes, and lesser charm credit drop chance lowered by 20%. (More zones, less chance)
  • Greater charm credit drop chance increased by 100%.
  • A linear drop adjustment based on enemy level has been added:
    • 20% drop penalty at 55, 33% drop bonus at 65
CITADEL OF THE CLAW
  • Rust Code added for all named.
  • Experience slightly increased.
  • Visiting nobles have a higher chance to rust code named and drop Commander's Orders.
ELDENAL'S MANSION
  • Hybrid-type Rust Code and accelerated respawn feature added.
  • A new visitor awaits your arrival.
BLOOD QUARRY (ROCK SIDE)
  • An additional Rebel Acquisition token quest has been added that involves this area.
  • Rust code added for named.
  • Trash in this wing now drop Yclistinite Bits.
EMBERFLOW
  • The spawn delay on cash named has been lowered to 5 minutes (from 30min)
WEAPON BALANCE
  • Ortananoch's combat innate, Legacy of the Dragonkin, has been altered. Proc rate has been increased, but will fade after five procs. Proc damage lowered to account for a higher proc rate.
  • Entropy's Spine damage proc, Withering Wave, has been changed to a flat damage value instead of a scaling value.
SUNKEN CATHEDRAL
  • Fixed bugs with named mobs spawning - should work normally henceforth.
  • Improved Quest NPC behavior.
  • Wax Fruit increased from snack to meal.
  • Unfeeling alkahest behavior improved.
  • Improved encounter flagging (Thanks Rymy, Marthog, Wuuc, Paxit).
  • Aggregate fungi should no longer fall under the world.
  • Zone quest reward received a bug fix.
  • Tunnel mushroom add spawning frequency reduced.
  • QoL improvements with respect to the amount of items.
  • Revisions were made in the spiral room.
  • Main quest line lengthened a bit - a new bonus awaits for those going all the way.
  • Quest encounter receives rebalancing and items brought in line with the difficulty.
QUESTS
  • A short little quest in Sundered Mountains offered by Freya the Blacksmith that was broken and could not be completed is fixed.
  • Ryzan's Dagger quest which was broken and could not be completed has been fully redone, now accessible by rogues level 60 and above.
  • Previously, killing 6 of 7 required types of stonemites & elementals for the quest "Things that go bump in the mines" incorrectly gave text implying the quest was complete when it was not actually complete. This has been fixed.
  • Gleaming Steel Sword has been added to the Well-Illustrated Treasure Map loot table.
  • Forest of the Fallen:
    • Vaton has listened to reason and will now allow all animal trappings to be done at the same time.
    • Guorth is allowing multiple defenders at once during the Yiv invasion of the Kromtor fort.
    • Gravedigging with Gumdor should work better.
MISC
  • The command system transition is complete. Commands using /cm will no longer work and will display an error
  • Yclistinite Credits can now be purchased in Lake of Ill Omen. Credits are tradable and can be redeemed for their full value.
  • Increased Heart Panic (Previously Veil of Marlow) and Taraztu's Healing Flames drop rates.
  • The Lug Worm has been fixed.
  • The Silent Halls: Soul Hunters of Rajzaa spawns changed to be more dynamic.
  • Cryospine bodytype has been adjusted to 'animal' to allow druid charm.
  • Lifedraw spell proc added to Ghostmetal Shield.
  • Max health of "a faerie trickster" lowered slightly.
  • Rotten Core(s) are no longer stackable.
  • Axe of Continuous Attraction was fixed to prevent a rare but serious malfunction. Thanks Stever for reporting the issue.
  • The Fletching combine to create Quiver of Scornwood Arrows is now up-to-date with the Fletching revamp in a previous patch.

KNOWN ISSUES
  • Archaic: Tarhyl's Raging Curse is currently not functioning correctly. (Fixed)
  • Some disciplines have occasionally been failing to land successfully with an "out of combat" message
  • The new Paladin target of target spells are not landing on Allies. (Fixed)
  • Edict of Pain I is not working. (Fixed)
  • Paladins can target themselves with their damaging discipline abilities
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Woot

Dalayan Adventurer
According to the wiki, its 102 hate (rank I) vs 375 (rank VII) but regardless the aggro on tanks is tuned too low. The question is, can you actually keep aggro on your pack of 6 mobs when others of similar gear are attacking full out in a raid setting? It hasn't worked out well for me since the untested strikes were released.

I recently fought Digger O'Uct in Bloodstorm and the new AoE aggro was pretty frail.

Area of Effect Aggro:
  • Paladin: High aggro on 6+ targets. Easy and efficient to generate.
I guess rank 1 vs rank 7 are both tuned too low it doesn't make much of a difference / didn't notice the difference. Anything above rank 3 drains way too much stamina to keep up with, and even rank 3 drains too much if you're looking to keep up any level of bastion or althuna's fury along with it.
 
Last edited:

Romulox

Dalayan Adventurer
I guess rank 1 vs rank 7 are both tuned too low it doesn't make much of a difference / didn't notice the difference. Anything above rank 3 drains way too much stamina to keep up with, and even rank 3 drains too much if you're looking to keep up bastion or althuna's fury along with it.
Tank aggro in general needs to be boosted aside from all these new "abilities." The mitigation percentages per tank class make great sense and the patch is great overall, the underlying issue here is that aggro is too low. Aggro needs to be boosted on tanks innately. What exactly is wrong with a tank class easily holding aggro... especially when raid geared? "The vision" is getting pretty clouded lately as you can see every time a patch is released the response isn't exactly positive. I understand that the patch introduced a lot of new changes, and frankly the changes aren't at all -that- bad. What is bad is that underneath it all the creators can't just set their pride aside and please the playerbase by just making aggro work like it should.

Please, just crank up innate aggro on the three tank classes and let your new changes really shine.

Thank you.
 

odizzido2

Dalayan Elder
Someone on here mentioned the knockback on stuns as being pretty offputting. I have to agree. Knocking mobs out of melee range for people is not ideal for me. This is especially a problem when boxing as people need to move their boxes back into melee range. It ends up being that stunning mobs for agro is anti-DPS which doesn't feel good.
 

Romulox

Dalayan Adventurer
Someone on here mentioned the knockback on stuns as being pretty offputting. I have to agree. Knocking mobs out of melee range for people is not ideal for me. This is especially a problem when boxing as people need to move their boxes back into melee range. It ends up being that stunning mobs for agro is anti-DPS which doesn't feel good.
Stuns are too diminished anyway. Did you see our new LOIO stun?

(Spell data in the link above)

Try seeing if this actually lasts on the mob after you've used any other stun.
This is basically a 400 pt nuke with minor aggro on a 32 second cooldown timer.

What do you think of this spell odizzido2?
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
the paladin AoE stuns are pretty huge if you can land them w/ no DR, but after the first stun they get real bad real fast
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
I'd like to chime in on the paladin side of the change.
I think the ideas are actually pretty neat but require some adjustments.

Disclaimer: I have not really looked into the disciplines yet! On the other hand I rarely used /styles before the change either.

I box two paladins that are a several tiers above Luas (Khandra and Gonobn). After the change I have to very closely manage aggro with only using Murkspell + Spellsurge on Luas. This is with using 1hander + Shield. I've done some VE Maps and initiate aggro with AE Blind + AE Stun, following up with Runic GHeal. Murk -> Spellsurge -> Murk will safely steal aggro from Khandra or Gonobn. I observed the sames while XP'ing a bit in Elds.

When I focus on single mobs and add single blinds to maintain aggro I seem to have less problems, even if I go all-out with Luas. Again this is without really looking into disciplines, so this may (or may not) shift the entire situation a bit but I feel it's safe to assume that this will remain somewhat of an issue.

Question for my understanding: Is there any reason left for knights to get a Jyre at all? You take a blow to your deity bonus, had a nerf of the item itself and now will create considerably less aggro if tanking with Jyre. Before the patch I always tanked with Jyre. Tried afterwards, bagged it after two rounds and went with 1hander + shield. Worked way better.
jyre hasn't been worth equipping since it was initially nerfed, unless you wanted to count niche cases like it being better at autoattacking trivial mobs to death without using any spells or abilities.
 

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
According to the wiki, its 102 hate (rank I) vs 375 (rank VII) but regardless the aggro on tanks is tuned too low. The question is, can you actually keep aggro on your pack of 6 mobs when others of similar gear are attacking full out in a raid setting? It hasn't worked out well for me since the untested strikes were released.

I recently fought Digger O'Uct in Bloodstorm and the new AoE aggro was pretty frail.
I would need a lot more information:
What weapon/shield, what stance, what other classes were in the group.

You are listing lady's strike damage, not the recourse threat.
Try seeing if this actually lasts on the mob after you've used any other stun.
This is basically a 400 pt nuke with minor aggro on a 32 second cooldown timer.
A stun will generate the same amount of threat if the stun lands, or the target is immune to the stun. This is not minor aggro, nor is it 32 seconds of cooldown. If you are casting it once every 32 seconds, then yes, your aggro will be bad.

1- Stun immune mobs generate no / barely any threat on aoe stuns
A stun generates the same threat when the mob is immune to the stun portion of this effect. ie, not the threat portion
1629946023518.png

A resist will not generate threat.

Next patch/restart/hotfix?:
Lady's Strike stamina cost reduced by 40% at all ranks.
Lady's Strike is now usable with 2 handed weapons but shares a cooldown with Cleansing Strike.
Shadowknight Pet Sacrifice spell are now self target (no longer auto swaps your target)

I am exploring different ideas to buff paladin AoE threat, but it needs to be a good idea rather than cranking all the knobs to 11. I also suspect everyone is still learning the new playstyle, so I want to let these changes settle into everyone's playstyle before we make any kneejerk changes.

Hope this helps. Please be respectful of everyone's time and remember to respond with the same tone you would like to be treated with.
 

Romulox

Dalayan Adventurer
Thanks for the update Cole. Hopefully more good things are in store.

Please be respectful of everyone's time and remember to respond with the same tone you would like to be treated with.

Indeed. Hopefully your CSR members can live up to this standard as well.

Cheers!
 

odizzido2

Dalayan Elder
I am not sure what to think yet about the new stun spell and agro changes in general. The recast on stun is long, but there are a lot of factors. If you ask me again in a month or two I might be able to give you a real answer.

The only thing I can say for sure is that I do not like the knockback. It can mess with other people in your group/raid's range. Having to inconvenience everyone around you because you need to generate agro, or worse yet just be second on agro just incase, does not feel good to me.

What I can say I like quite a lot is that paladins are getting closer to being heal/tanks again instead of things turning into DPS as you progress. The razadian spell Final Judgement is still a damage focused spell which I am personally not a fan of but I really do like the rework overall.
 

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
I am not sure what to think yet about the new stun spell and agro changes in general. The recast on stun is long, but there are a lot of factors. If you ask me again in a month or two I might be able to give you a real answer.

The only thing I can say for sure is that I do not like the knockback. It can mess with other people in your group/raid's range. Having to inconvenience everyone around you because you need to generate agro, or worse yet just be second on agro just incase, does not feel good to me.

What I can say I like quite a lot is that paladins are getting closer to being heal/tanks again instead of things turning into DPS as you progress. The razadian spell Final Judgement is still a damage focused spell which I am personally not a fan of but I really do like the rework overall.
Good feedback. There are a few developers that were not sure about Final Judgement. At some point there needs to be a cut-off point or your reworking everything the Paladin has.
 

Romulox

Dalayan Adventurer
Good feedback. There are a few developers that were not sure about Final Judgement. At some point there needs to be a cut-off point or your reworking everything the Paladin has.
Final Judgment is great when getting XP imo. It is rather risky though cause the potential is there to lose your mana bar. Luckily with the new med changes it is much more viable.
 

Romulox

Dalayan Adventurer
I would need a lot more information:
What weapon/shield, what stance, what other classes were in the group.

You are listing lady's strike damage, not the recourse threat.

A stun will generate the same amount of threat if the stun lands, or the target is immune to the stun. This is not minor aggro, nor is it 32 seconds of cooldown. If you are casting it once every 32 seconds, then yes, your aggro will be bad.


A stun generates the same threat when the mob is immune to the stun portion of this effect. ie, not the threat portion
View attachment 725

A resist will not generate threat.

Next patch/restart/hotfix?:
Lady's Strike stamina cost reduced by 40% at all ranks.
Lady's Strike is now usable with 2 handed weapons but shares a cooldown with Cleansing Strike.
Shadowknight Pet Sacrifice spell are now self target (no longer auto swaps your target)

I am exploring different ideas to buff paladin AoE threat, but it needs to be a good idea rather than cranking all the knobs to 11. I also suspect everyone is still learning the new playstyle, so I want to let these changes settle into everyone's playstyle before we make any kneejerk changes.

Hope this helps. Please be respectful of everyone's time and remember to respond with the same tone you would like to be treated with.

Not gonna Lie, I am super excited / stoked for Jyre to work with Lady's Strike! My sword and board damage is horrid! Feels much better slashing up mobs with a 2 hander as a paladin!

Even pre Jyre, my aggro always seemed stronger single target with a 2hander on.
 
Last edited:

Moghjubar

Dalayan Beginner
Speaking of jank patch stuff, what the heck is with pbaoes requiring a target to work now? A good amount of time I'll get failed casts because the mob dies / poofs as I go to cast things now.

Though I guess thats one way to deal with pbaoe aggro: make it harder to cast the pbaoes.

Hoping the minor paladin fixes at least make them equal to warrior aoe aggro, would love to test things when Rom gets out of jail for having a pet name.
 

Romulox

Dalayan Adventurer
Speaking of jank patch stuff, what the heck is with pbaoes requiring a target to work now? A good amount of time I'll get failed casts because the mob dies / poofs as I go to cast things now.

Though I guess thats one way to deal with pbaoe aggro: make it harder to cast the pbaoes.

Hoping the minor paladin fixes at least make them equal to warrior aoe aggro, would love to test things when Rom gets out of jail for having a pet name.
You know, I haven't messed with my pbaoe's lately, I'll have to try that out and see if I have the issue as well.


----Edit: I found no issues with mine.
 
Last edited:

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
Lady's Strike is now usable with 2 handed weapons but shares a cooldown with Cleansing Strike.
After further testing, this removes all the bash characteristics of lady's strike in both 1 hand and 2 handed cases. We will have to look for another alternative.
 

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
Speaking of jank patch stuff, what the heck is with pbaoes requiring a target to work now? A good amount of time I'll get failed casts because the mob dies / poofs as I go to cast things now.

Though I guess thats one way to deal with pbaoe aggro: make it harder to cast the pbaoes.
Statements like this are vexing. PBAoE spells failing due to your target dying have existed for as long as I can remember (Upper Thaz Water Mini + Group Healing). Perhaps there exists enough echo-chamber-frustration/misinformation that you would accuse developers of purposefully implementing this to balance AoE threat?
 

Kapitol K

Dalayan Elder
After further testing, this removes all the bash characteristics of lady's strike in both 1 hand and 2 handed cases. We will have to look for another alternative.
bummer, its okay though i went out and got myself a tidethresher and now i feel less bad about banking all of my 2handers.
 

Moghjubar

Dalayan Beginner
Statements like this are vexing. PBAoE spells failing due to your target dying have existed for as long as I can remember (Upper Thaz Water Mini + Group Healing). Perhaps there exists enough echo-chamber-frustration/misinformation that you would accuse developers of purposefully implementing this to balance AoE threat?
All I know is I require a target to cast a pbaoe now and I don't remember having to have one (maybe because they are flagged as unable to cast on a friendly target now?).

Edit: apparently its a per-flag spell thing, which I've been noticing more and more lately (since you can still nuke yourself with several low level spells). Example: gelid and jylls wont cast with no target now, but the level 1 pbaoe is still just fine and dandy with its old behavior. Proof
 

Attachments

  • SpellJam.gif
    SpellJam.gif
    926.5 KB · Views: 6
Last edited:

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
All I know is I require a target to cast a pbaoe now and I don't remember having to have one (maybe because they are flagged as unable to cast on a friendly target now?).

Edit: apparently its a per-flag spell thing, which I've been noticing more and more lately (since you can still nuke yourself with several low level spells). Example: gelid and jylls wont cast with no target now, but the level 1 pbaoe is still just fine and dandy with its old behavior. Proof
Ok this is really good feedback that includes information that helps narrow down what you are talking about. Example, Heal spell canceling did not have a message associated with it. This does and allows me to search for that exact message to narrow down locations that could cause it.

There was a change eight months ago to prevent lifeflow clicks from healing the caster (Undying Loyalty). Later someone reported you could still heal yourself by not having a target. Two months ago a block was put in to prevent this. From what it looks like, this is probably blocking wizard PBAoEs because they recourse Arcane Echo (Part of the check looks for a recourse). I would guess you can still cast PBAoE stun/blind without a target?
 
Top Bottom