New to SoD

stealth93rt

Dalayan Beginner
Hi everyone.

I am new to SoD and would like to do a box team. From what I have read, warriors sound really fun to play. Do other melee have the capabilities like the stamina the warrior has to make it more fun than turning on Auto Attack?

Also what are some really good box duo comps for a brand new player with zero gear/money?

My brother may be joining me as well for a trio.

Thanks in advance!
 
Warrior is a great class to have when leveling up, esp with the stamina system. I believe that monks now have a similar system, however I dont play monk, so i cant say for sure. If your plan is to get into the raid game, tanks can be hard to do as a 1st char, they are very gear reliant and often there are so many dead tanks that someone will just box one of those in.
A good class while leveling is also druid, they have heals/ports and some nukes, making them good all around, however because of this, there are a good number of alt druids out there, and they tend to be less desirable in the raid game.

There are two schools of thought here. 1) play what you enjoy and dont worry about a 'raid required' class, 2) play a cleric/chanter/bard(/ranger/wiz), they seem to be the most desired classes for higher end raids. personally I think (1) is better, less burnout, but its really about how much of a power gamer you are.
I should note i box a Cleric/SK, but thats b/c I enjoy tanking.
 
It sort of depends on what your goals are for the game?

How much/often do you play?

Are you a raider type that wants to eventually team up with 10-17 other people and slay dragons together?

Are you more casual, and like grouping with others, but not on any schedule or for the time usually required to raid?

Do you just kind of want to do your own thing, duo your characters and see how far/strong you can make them, without worrying about other people?

If you like/want to raid, I would definitely say to play Cleric as one of your boxes. Clerics are the premier healer in this game, and more of them are wanted in each raid than any other class. Clerics are the most commonly desired class by raiding guilds.

As the above poster pointed out, tanks are probably the hardest class to get into the raid game with, as your first character. If you are into the idea of eventually raiding, I would play a cleric + (mage/necro/monk/ranger/rogue). The cleric will make you very desirable to raid guilds (although keep in mind they may want you to main your cleric and not give much loot to the other toon), but another dps box isn't too hard to get into raids, and is something that can fill in any random open raid spot and be useful. An alt tank that isn't main tanking for the raid contributes very little.

If you are more into the grouping/solo aspects of the game, you can play almost anything you like and there are a lot of interesting class combinations that can be effective. The traditional healer/tank is always strong, and definitely the easiest way to progress through the game solo, since caster dps classes tend to have trouble with any mobs they cant kite. Druids are really cool healers in a duo, because they can port, cast runspeed buffs, give damage shields, track mobs, and still remain solid healers. A true tank is probably strongest if you aren't too worried about raiding with it. All are strong, paladins have extra healing, good AE agro, good undead dps, warriors take the least damage, deal decent dps, and have a lot of cool attacks/abilities, SKs are arguably the strongest duo tank, they have good dps with spells, can lifetap to supplement heals, and can feign death, with is super useful.

You can also do any other meele dps + healer combo you happen to like. Rangers have great tracking, good dps. Bards have tons of utility, spell buffs/healing/manaregen, solid dps, decent tanking. Monks have feign death, and good tanking and dps (probably the strongest meele dps duo class). Beastlords are a bit weak at the moment, but still a neat class, they have a decent pet. Rogues aren't ideal with a healer because they want to attack from behind, but you can still get by, and they are amazing dps in a group/raid setting.

Caster dps classes are the least viable for duoing. A mage or necro can group with a healer, and use their pet to tank, but the pet won't be as strong as a real player. Wizards or enchanters just aren't great duo classes. They duo alright with a SK or paladin that has a lot of gear, because it can tank and heal itself, but with no gear that doesn't work well. You can also do an int caster with a druid, and it will work very well against any mobs you can kite.

This ended up a lot longer than I intended, but I hope it helps, if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
 
Ideal duos for getting into raiding and still being useful beforehand are like Monk/Cleric or Ranger/Cleric.

Its important to play a class you like though. For instance, enchanters might have the most trouble leveling of any class, but they are amazingly strong at 65, interesting to play, and very desired in raids.

Leveling up isn't too bad in this game, and when you find a raid guild, you can easily get access to pretty much any class to help your character progress.

If you really want to progress two characters, picking a good duo makes sense, but if you really want to just get into the raid game, I would play class(es) that you most like.
 
Enchanter / Beastlord
Superlative utility.

Necromancer / Ranger
Superlative dps.

Cleric / Enchanter
Always in demand.

Bard / Bard
Clearly the best duo.

Rogue / Rogue
Clearly the worst duo.
 
Beastlord
Superlative utility.
Are we playing the same game?

Anyways, in regards to the original post. Im gonna assume that you simply want to be the best you can be with this duo and would reccomend you roll a cleric as one of the characters. I would also reccomend your duo be melee/healerClerics are desirable for 6 man, raids, duoing, soloing, watching youtube videos, getting loot, high fiving the pope etc etc because they are the best healer by a large margin and have pretty good mana free DPS which is nice for duoing. If cleric isnt your thing for whatever reason and you still want a healer I would roll a shaman.

Shamans are great in 6 man, great in raids, are pretty solid DPS when duoing and have pretty much unlimited mana. You cant kill things as hard as if you had a cleric, but you do smaller mobs for an extended period of time. After some EXP, shamans can do some pretty bangin DPS, to the point where at high tiers they can out DPS beastlords (Alkesh did this pre verdict).

Druids are more convenient for ports and track but both of those things you can camp one of your toons for, load a druid, port/track, then load a more useful character instead of the druid. To be honest, I find it hard to find a reason to give a druid a raid slot over a heal-mode paladin, or a 2nd shaman, or pretty much any non-beastlord class(However, when it comes to doing quest, druids are kind of helpful until you complete the quest and go back to playing better things). Almost every druid I've played with has said, "I wish I made a cleric instead", but I've never heard the reverse from a cleric, or shaman. Druids do get a kind of cool AoE nuke at endgame, but thats the only real redeeming factor that I personally see in the class.

As for the 2nd character, i'd probably roll a melee DPS class. Tanks are very difficult to gear and kind of suck without gear. If for whatever reason you are determined to play a tank though, I'd rank them SK>PAL>WAR, however they are all so close and each have their uses that I'd just play whatever one is the most appealing.

Don't roll a beastlord. I could write pages about what is wrong with that class, but if you like having worse DPS than a bard, tanking worse than a bard, having worse/less utility than a bard, have your character scale poorly with gear and experience, get made fun of by literally everyone, have your wife leave you etc etc, then roll a beastlord.

Bards are pretty good, and Bard/CLR is a strong duo. They solo pretty good as well. Bards are always wanted for literally everything, they have crazy utility and can do some pretty solid DPS as well, bottom of the real dps classes, but above beastlords/healers/tanks. They can tank okay, but are probably the squishiest of the melee classes (110% justifiable balance wise, but thematically is odd), however i mentioned them tanking better than beastlords because they have insane aggro. Bards only get turned down because people have too many of them already.

Ranger would also be a good choice with a healer, or playing solo if you get lazy and dont want to box. When they can bow, they can do top tier DPS from range while being fully mobile, they scale incredibly well with EXP/gear. They are tied with monks as the best non-WAR/PAL/SK tank class, but when they use /s 4 (Lose offhand attacks, gain parry bonus) they become the best non-WAR/PAL/SK class at tanking. In a duo they will most likely be meleeing, but from some parsing a few people have concluded that even if a ranger is in melee range they can still outparse a beastlord. Rangers are a high priority class for raid/6 man, they stack incredibly well (bringing more than 1) and benefit greatly from getting support (Bards songs, enchanter 4 tic overhaste called boon). PS they are boring as fuck unless you get a bunch of clickies and enough mana to not run oom after like 5 spells.

Monks are pretty rockin now. They do some bangin DPS with barefist and tank pretty well and are great to duo with a healer. They scale pretty well with gear until you hit the very endgame and get very few upgrades do to some wonky itemization (bw gloves cough rujik wrist cough go look at my post pls slaariel cough). In a 6 man they are cool for pulling/offtanking and provide solid DPS, in raids they do essentially the same, but less offtanking because raid mobs typically hit much harder. Im kind of biased towards monks because i play one but a lot of other people do too. Also they have a stamina bar that empowers all their special punches and kicks, its kind of like warrior stamina system but a bit different.

Rogues arent super great duo, they are relatively squishy melees and obviously do less DPS from the front which is 99% of the time when you are duoing melee/healer. However, SK/Rogue or PAL/Rogue is a pretty okay duo if the knight is super geared, but that is true for literally every class. They are one of the best DPS class at almost every point in the game if they play and gear properly. Certain very endgame fights punish them slightly due to movement mechanics, but they still do pretty well on those too. Not a lot of guilds have rogues because not many people play them, to be honest most people find them quite boring, as well as less than ideal duo partners.

Caster classes arent super effecient for duoing as they can solo pretty well and most of them excel in a Knight(Pal/SK) and Int caster duo. MAG/CLR works pretty well, so does ENC/CLR or ENC/DRU, but unless you enjoy being awful in everything but raid/6man then I would advise against rolling enchanter. I'm partially biased towards the class, but most people agree (Grinkles too!) that enchanter is the worst questing/duo class in the game, but arguably the strongest class in a raid/6man. Enchanters are also the highest DPS class in the game by a sizable margin when in a raid, and that doesnt even factor in all of their utility and damage boost they provide to everyone else.

Personally my top picks for a duo would be BRD+CLR, RNG+CLR, then BRD/RNG + SHM.

Writing this post has kind of inspired me to make a 2015 edition of Cinn's class tier thread from many years ago, maybe I will do that. I'd also advise taking some of my opinions with a grain of salt, as I'm just one nerd, but a lot of people would agree I know a thing or two about this game. This is also assuming a lot of things, like that you want to play a melee/healer duo, that class preference isn't a large factor (Realistically speaking, it is). If their is a class you really want to play then I would play that class (unless its a beastlord or druid people will make fun of you as long as you play those classes)
 
holy shit my post was long let me highlight the TL;DR edition
Personally my top picks for a duo would be BRD+CLR, RNG+CLR, then BRD/RNG + SHM.

I'd also advise taking some of my opinions with a grain of salt, as I'm just one nerd, but a lot of people would agree I know a thing or two about this game. This is also assuming a lot of things, like that you want to play a melee/healer duo, that class preference isn't a large factor (Realistically speaking, it is). If their is a class you really want to play then I would play that class (unless its a beastlord or druid people will make fun of you as long as you play those classes)
 
I will add to my above post, my first box was ranger/shammy. I still play the ranger, however once you hit 65 it can be somewhat hard to kill stuff unless you can get some raid gear, I ended up kiting and having to run backwards shooting arrows at mobs. Obviously with raid gear this is different, but without twink items, you are a bit squishy.

I have always wanted to box 2 rangers and play ping-pong with mobs, you have nukes and jolts (-agro spells) so it could be fun to stand far apart, snare and then balance agro so the mob never gets to either char!
 
Druids do get a kind of cool AoE nuke at endgame, but thats the only real redeeming factor that I personally see in the class.

Yeah,who wants *6* ticks Hots which *stack* or the best damageshield or hp/sta regen buff.
If one classs is *required* on raids/harder stuff it is Druid for the *stacking* HoTs.

Also look at the relic Shm and Druid dots,now tell me which is better:
4 ticks a 550 + initial 275 for 500 mana (Shammy) or 9 ticks a 380 for 525 mana (Druid) ?
And why does the rain line of DD spells stop at 54 for Shammies while Druids happily keep getting updates at higher levels ?
Also succor is fantastic in some cases,clear the zone/area,succor to entrance and do it again instead of running back through possible repops hereby messing the spawn cycle up.

Shamans ... have pretty much unlimited mana.
Now that is one of my all time favorites,either you cast or you cannibalize.
Even if that myth would be true,what use is unlimited mana if your heals suck *badly* compared to the other 2 priest classes.
 
Yeah,who wants *6* ticks Hots which *stack* or the best damageshield or hp/sta regen buff.
If one classs is *required* on raids/harder stuff it is Druid for the *stacking* HoTs.

Also look at the relic Shm and Druid dots,now tell me which is better:
4 ticks a 550 + initial 275 for 500 mana (Shammy) or 9 ticks a 380 for 525 mana (Druid) ?
And why does the rain line of DD spells stop at 54 for Shammies while Druids happily keep getting updates at higher levels ?
Also succor is fantastic in some cases,clear the zone/area,succor to entrance and do it again instead of running back through possible repops hereby messing the spawn cycle up.


Now that is one of my all time favorites,either you cast or you cannibalize.
Even if that myth would be true,what use is unlimited mana if your heals suck *badly* compared to the other 2 priest classes.

Shaman rule, druids suck!!! Who wants to be a tree when you can be a BEAR!!!! Frogs give warts!!!

Jokes aside:
Goons have been raiding with 1 shaman, 2 druids, and 1-2 clerics. My perception is that there seem to be a lot fewer mained shaman out there, but really you only need 1 a raid. Shaman have fuckall for group healing which is a big deal. I would still never trade my shaman for a druid, though I played many expansions of live as a shaman main so I am very bias...
 
Yeah,who wants *6* ticks Hots which *stack* or the best damageshield or hp/sta regen buff.
If one classs is *required* on raids/harder stuff it is Druid for the *stacking* HoTs.

Also look at the relic Shm and Druid dots,now tell me which is better:
4 ticks a 550 + initial 275 for 500 mana (Shammy) or 9 ticks a 380 for 525 mana (Druid) ?
And why does the rain line of DD spells stop at 54 for Shammies while Druids happily keep getting updates at higher levels ?
Also succor is fantastic in some cases,clear the zone/area,succor to entrance and do it again instead of running back through possible repops hereby messing the spawn cycle up.


Now that is one of my all time favorites,either you cast or you cannibalize.
Even if that myth would be true,what use is unlimited mana if your heals suck *badly* compared to the other 2 priest classes.
im done
 
Yeah,who wants *6* ticks Hots which *stack* or the best damageshield or hp/sta regen buff.
If one classs is *required* on raids/harder stuff it is Druid for the *stacking* HoTs.

Also look at the relic Shm and Druid dots,now tell me which is better:
4 ticks a 550 + initial 275 for 500 mana (Shammy) or 9 ticks a 380 for 525 mana (Druid) ?
And why does the rain line of DD spells stop at 54 for Shammies while Druids happily keep getting updates at higher levels ?
Also succor is fantastic in some cases,clear the zone/area,succor to entrance and do it again instead of running back through possible repops hereby messing the spawn cycle up.


Now that is one of my all time favorites,either you cast or you cannibalize.
Even if that myth would be true,what use is unlimited mana if your heals suck *badly* compared to the other 2 priest classes.
The druid hot will stack on harder fights but as Solosolki and many other people have pointed out before druid hots on the tank just end up overhealing a majority of the time. Also, relic HoT is only 3 tics. Not to mention, a paladin runic HoT outclasses the druid hot in most situations where you need a group HoT (taking spell damage). The one druid dot might be more effecient yes but that is the only dot that a druid can cast. You do realize that shamans have 2 good poison dots they can cast on the mob, right? On top of those dots, they can nuke inbetween if they are really feeling hardcore. Not to mention, once you can get the bearform spell then your melee DPS is better than a cleric w/ a hammer without having to give up mainhand stats and being completely mana free.

Cannibalizing and Healing are not mutually exclusive. AA cannibalize on cooldown and can be done immediately after a cast, CMal BP in between cast when necessary. On top of this woundbane is incredibly low mana cost. Woundbane does not heal for as much as other healers yes but it heals for enough to where a shaman can keep a tank alive pretty well

In regards to DS and Regen, if you idea of a redeeming factor is casting a buff in town then I really dont know what to say. I mean, I guess druids are nice when you cant find any clerics because they can cast group heal, but if being that guy people bring when they cant find a cleric is your idea of a good class, then more power to you.
 
Don't roll a beastlord. I could write pages about what is wrong with that class...

enchanter is the worst questing/duo class in the game, but arguably the strongest class in a raid/6man.

I agree with these two, but have to disagree on the druid stuff. Druids have problems, but they are still a really solid class. They are by far the most useful healer in a duo, they can port, runspeed, evac, snare/root, track, they cast 2-3 of the 6-7 main buffs tanks/meeles want. They are also great healers in duo/group situations, with approximately equal efficiency to a cleric, and more potent healing than a shaman. The only time druids really fall off and seem lackluster is 18 man raids. Their super efficient hots only heal once per 6 seconds, so if they end up 'ticcing' when the tank or group is already full health, it makes them inefficient. In a duo/group situation, damage is more predictable, and lower overall, so a druid can better ensure their HOTs are efficient.

Once you get to the raid game, a shaman or cleric is stronger (although I personally like a 2nd druid just as much as a 2nd shaman in a raid, especially if you don't have 3 clerics), but for everything before then, and completing quests, druids are amazing. They are also totally viable for exp, 6 man content, and duoing.

At the end of the day you should really just play what you think you will enjoy though. If you want to be a raider, you will likely end up only 'maining' one character, so having a nicely efficient duo isn't as important if that's your end goal. If you want to play a caster, and join a raid guild, someone can give you access to a higher end knight to duo with. Hell, you can use *my* higher end paladin if you want, just PM me here or message solosolki/grupo in game.
 
At the end of the day you should really just play what you think you will enjoy though. If you want to be a raider, you will likely end up only 'maining' one character, so having a nicely efficient duo isn't as important if that's your end goal. If you want to play a caster, and join a raid guild, someone can give you access to a higher end knight to duo with. Hell, you can use *my* higher end paladin if you want, just PM me here or message solosolki/grupo in game.
This, enjoyment factor is probably the 2nd most important thing in choosing what to play, 2nd only to the golden rule of "Don't Roll a Beastlord"
 
Or just buff their relic pet, DOTs, and/or meele dps/tanking. Its a cool class thematically, with lore, a role, and everything. The only problem with beastlords is their total lack of scaling compared to everyone else. Were getting way off topic though. This guy might want to play a beastlord, who knows, its not the worst idea ever considering Devs have said they should get some love next after monks, and I think monks are done now?
 
When I started this server I leveled a monk/shm to 55, then a druid/sk to 55 and finally I made a war/clr duo that are currently my mains.

My opinions of the tanking classes:

Tanking Classes:
SK: Everyone's standard choice, I did not like them. I personally did not like having to med more for the tank than I did for the healer and without casting their spells they don't really do damage. The pro to an SK is that you are probably the least gear dependent of the 3 tanks. You can lag behind in gear a little as an SK and still be able to perform your job and even a little DPS successfully. SKs also get some fun utility, invis, lev, EB, FD and I have seen that fear stance save more than a few groups. TL;DR: Great single target aggro, fair 2-5 target aggro, weak 6+, second best tank mitigation and HP. Don't have to be as diligent about gear but if you aint casting spells, you aint doing damage.

Paladin: The worst or maybe the best, probably the most gear dependent. Leveling a paladin to 30 for me was an ordeal and about as close to not having any fun as I have gotten in this game. As I jumped up in levels on my warrior I saw paladin peers getting rocked by mobs I had no problem with and though "heh, thank god I picked a warrior". At higher levels I have to say I am a little jealous of Paladins, I still tank better but those heals! A really well geared paladin is practically a group onto themselves. With their very powerful self heals and very good group heals, a high tier paladin can take a group to a number of areas without a healer and not have to worry. I have seen a Paladin/Ench box do pretty much all the red trash in Ember and only need a healer for bosses. TL;DR: The strongest of the AoE aggro generators, weakest of the tanks but has utility outside of tanking. Have to be very diligent about gear or you will run oom before those heals do their job.

Warrior: My favorite. Warriors are 100% gear/weapon dependent and as a result you will find times when your progression is held back by the fact that your gear is no longer up to par or more specifically how your weapons are lagging behind. Both of the knight classes have the benefit of a solid portion of their aggro generation coming from spells which allows them to stay competitive in aggro generation even when they lag behind in gear but warriors need to do damage. Weapons are not all that hard to come by for a warrior. There are a number of decent low level quests but if you can scrounge up 50-100p (or contact any of the characters in my signature) for a mithril weapon you will be gold till the mid 40's. After that there are a number of fairly easy quests that I could duo with my cleric in the upper 40's early 50's to get pretty solid weapons till I could farm the cash for some of the better BoEs. Keep in mind with only a handful of exceptions, most BoE weapons are going to ratio cap in the .675 to .75 area. TL;DR: Warriors will need to stay on top of weapon upgrades but they are the best at mitigating damage and dishing it out.


Ultimately, the class you like to play is far and away the best class to pick. There are obviously "good" choices if you had specific goals but if you don't like playing the class, no amount of raiding is going to make you like it. While every guild wants clerics and when asked everyone tells you a mained enchanter is the most desired class, a lot of that is wishful thinking. No guild wants to be short on clerics, but there is nothing wrong with having too many clerics. Guilds want 3 clerics on at raid time, that might mean having 7 active clerics. The reason people want a "Mained" enchanter is because everyone and their mom has an enchanter alt or access to someone's old mained enchanter. Mained enchanters do not stick around. It is hard to quest or solo on an enchanter, they pair well with a few classes for duos but the real fun and action for an enchanter is 6mans/raiding. Personally, I love my enchanter but if you dont have a good Bonds/AoD target groups can be pretty boring if your tank is too good/geared.

My opinion of beastlords is if they can make them feel at 65 how they felt from 9-55, it will be one of the most popular classes.

My personal play-style is to duo everything so a tank/healer was the perfect fit for me. Once you get comfortable with the duo, there are not a lot of things that cannot be accomplished by a determined cleric and warrior team.

I would probably still pick War/Clr if I had to start over from scratch, maybe ranger/cleric. With no money I think a monk/sham will probably be the easiest.
 
Paladin: The worst or maybe the best, probably the most gear dependent. Leveling a paladin to 30 for me was an ordeal and about as close to not having any fun as I have gotten in this game. As I jumped up in levels on my warrior I saw paladin peers getting rocked by mobs I had no problem with and though "heh, thank god I picked a warrior". At higher levels I have to say I am a little jealous of Paladins, I still tank better but those heals! A really well geared paladin is practically a group onto themselves. With their very powerful self heals and very good group heals, a high tier paladin can take a group to a number of areas without a healer and not have to worry. I have seen a Paladin/Ench box do pretty much all the red trash in Ember and only need a healer for bosses. TL;DR: The strongest of the AoE aggro generators, weakest of the tanks but has utility outside of tanking. Have to be very diligent about gear or you will run oom before those heals do their job.

To be fair, enchanter charm DPS in emberflow is unreal good. I don't know who the tank was, but top tier tanks of any class can self heal much of the emberflow trash.
 
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