Many questions as a new player (stats, weapons, procs, etc)

Kobex

Dalayan Beginner
So I've been playing on Winter's Roar, and I'm very impressed with all the work that has gone into it. Content-wise I've only scratched the surface, so I imagine I'll be even more impressed as I progress.

I'm a numbers person. I'm always trying to understand the numbers behind the game. I did this through my years of playing EQ-live, where the community had to pretty much do all the testing. The devs would very rarely give real numbers or algorithms for any game mechanics. That said, while I'd like to know the exact workings of the game, I'd be happy with just general knoweldge that allow me to make somewhat intelligent gear decisions without hours of my own parsing.

Being primarily a monk, my questions are melee-centric. Spells are generally (but not always) easier to understand simply based on spell descriptions. I've done a lot of reading trying to figure these out on my own, but I haven't run into many details. If this information can be found, I apoligize, and just ask for a link or two. Now on to the questions!

1) Stats - I get the impression that stats actually play significant role on WR (as opposed to the negligable effect on EQLive). Exactly how much of a role do STR/AGI/DEX play (and, to a lesser extent, the other stats)? More specifically, how much of an impact would be had from, say, +20 in one of these stats?

As a gross example, let's say there was a 10/20 weapon with no stats, and a 9/20 weapon with 20 str and/or dex. Could the stats help enough to offset the raw damage loss? I realize it could be more complicated than this given other variables, but I was just looking for a "generally yes/no/maybe" type of response.

2) Weapons - How do weapon damage/delay values factor into total damage for both primary and secondary slots? Basically, how can I decide if one weapon is better than another (in general, in case it depends on mob level/AC and such)? How important is speed vs. ratio in these slots?

My reference is EQLive, where the primary hand damage bonus played a large role, and fast weapons in primary were important. To compare one fast weapon vs. a slower one with a better ratio, you either used a general formula or did hours of parsing, but a general understanding was reached.
Offhand weapons were easy to calculate due to the lack of damage bonus. You simply put the best ratio in the offhand (in general, and before the sinister strikes AA introduced a scaling offhand damage bonus). I just want a way of determining if one weapon is better than another for a slot without parsing, as I'm always going to be comparing weapons to naked monk fists.

3) Procs - Is proc rate based on weapon speed, or is it a constant like EQLive? Is there a general proc rate for weapons, or do weapon more frequently have their own proc rates than on live?

As is applies to me currently, do the monk proc styles go off more often if faster weapons/attacks are used, or is it gear independent? I'm level 16 and my fights can change drastically based on a couple of procs from these styles so this is a very important question to me. Also, does haste/slow change proc rates?

4) Feign death - I'll be 17 shortly, but I was wondering about the details of how it works here compared to live. I noticed the posts about recent changes to mob resets and such, but regardless of mob behavior while feigned, how does it function? My reference again is EQLive where roamers or mobs that have not yet pathed home were about a 30% memblur, and mobs that have pathed home were basically not going to remember you when you stood.
Pre-feign nerf, mobs always forgot about you enough to not come running at you when you stood, but would re-aggro you if someone else got on their aggro list and died.
What is the WR method for handling feign death when you stand? This will also effect how feign is used as an "evade" in mid-combat.

I'm sure I'll discover most of these details over time, but primarly I was wondering about how to choose the right weapons.

If you actually read through this whole thing, thanks!
 
Look at Melwin's reply in that thread for some specifics on stats and procs. FD is similar to live, in that it is the post-"nerf" version. And recently mob home returns have been tweaked a bit in favor of the monk's pulling.

Can't say much specifically, but that'll get you started. And someone else will likely get to the bones of it for you.

Eredhel

Edit: Forgot to mention...as far as I can tell so far, ratio seems to be king on WR.
 
From what I have noticed, there is no real damage bonus for the main hand. Using a 5/10 is the same as using a 15/30. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Siquros said:
There's no damage bonus, you can hit for 1 at level 65.

There is a damage minimum though, so you can only hit for 1 if you have a 1 damage weapon or post-mitigation.
 
I don't want to start another thread so I just thought I would use this one as it is the same lines of questioning...

What stat(s) are used to determine how fast a weapon skill goes up?

The reason I ask this, last night while playing, my kick, offense, defense were going up 1 or 2 points for every 4 or 5 mobs that I fought, but my piercing and blunt barely or didn't move at all... Even during my 3 hours of game play my piercing only went up 4 points, blunt didn't go up at all. And I've been using fairly fast weapon-speed weapons, quicker than my kick where on average I would be able to attack 3 times with my weapon before my kick was made available again.

But my kick went up 15 points, offense 9, and defense 6 (though this moved the least - hard to get up a skill when your actually getting hit all the time :D )
 
Thanks for the replies!

So weapon ratio is all the matters in terms of damage over time?

Not counting the small things like:
- no delay on first swing, favors higher damage weapons
- damage shields, favors higher delay weapons
- missing swings/bad position - favors lower delay weapons
- predictability of damage over a short time - favors lower delay weapons

That would make weapon selection easy, depending on how procs are tied in (especially the monk proc syles). Any idea on the proc questions?

I had already read about what each stat does, but I was looking for more of how much of an impact they have in various quantities. I know exactly what hitpoints do, but I wouldn't know know how to make gear selections if there is a tradeoff for say hitpoints or AC versus other stats.

I think I only have one or two pieces of gear with any sort of stat increase currently, but I'm looking ahead. :)
 
Rambler said:
From what I have noticed, there is no real damage bonus for the main hand. Using a 5/10 is the same as using a 15/30. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

So for a Rogue...I'd want a 15/30 in primary instead of the 5/10?
 
dwf-rog-lfg said:
Rambler said:
From what I have noticed, there is no real damage bonus for the main hand. Using a 5/10 is the same as using a 15/30. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

So for a Rogue...I'd want a 15/30 in primary instead of the 5/10?



yes, at least i would, 15/30 will offer you a better backstab
 
On my live rogue I *always* went with the highest damage piercer in main-hand. Duh =] Sure, one could make the argument that on a given wep with lower delay you would do more DPS, but for the "wow factor" alone, you gotta do the higher dmg weps, heh.

The only time I swapped for a lower damage / lower delay wep was when I desperately needed the proc on it (i.e. a snare or a slow or a specific poison).
 
Well on live I played a Barbarian Rogue, Dark Elf Rogue, Dwarf Rogue, and Wood Elf Rogue(I love the RP aspect of them) all 65+ on different servers...but I just asked because I'm honestly not sure on WR. I haven't had too man Rogues to talk with and such.
 
OK, some general observations so far. I still don't know anything about the real impact certain quantities of stats have, but I've noticed a few things about weapons and feign death.

I'm a monk (just hit 25) and currently have a 14/42 weapon in primary, and nothing in offhand (bare fist). Since a bare fisted monk has a weapon delay of 30 and under, I would expect my hands to swing at different times if they are truely independent.

This never happened. Every time I hit with primary (42 delay), I also hit with offhand. The punches were always synced. Now, the damage did seem fairly high, so I'm guessing it was treating as if I had two 14/42 weapons, but I can't be sure without parsing.

Now, if I put the 42 delay weapon in my offhand, my primary punches at the faster (~30 delay) rate, while the offhand seemed to stay at the slower rate as it should be. The was easy to see because my hits were offsync as one would expect with two different weapon delays. My hits also looked on average much lower, which was expected with now mainhanding a much lower damage weapon. Without parsing I couldn't tell if both weapons were really using their proper damage ratings in addition to delay. If offhand was using mainhand delay (thus mistakenly lowering my damage), I wouldn't have known in this short experiment

If the behavior when mainhanding the higher delay weapon is a bug and is actually donig what it seemed like it was doing, then fixing it could actually hurt monks. Even so, I'm not going to hide a bug for that reason.

I only had one weapon on me when I finally realized this, so I didn't test configurations that did not use a bare fist.

Feign death:

Now that I have this skill I've had some time to play around with it. At first being able to con a mob and have it scowling while feigned threw me off, but then I realized that it's a way you can know if the mob is memblurred before you stand. That's actually quite nice. I'm still low level and I've only had one mob remember me when I stood (when I was 22 and feigned a level 22 roamer).

I don't yet know if all 20+ mobs will remember, just roamers, or what the memblur percentages are yet. One thing I do miss is the feature on live where staying on the ground for 2 minutes will completely wipe you from all hate lists. This avoided the /q solution to wipe yourself. After 2 minutes you'd get a message that all enemies have forgotten about you. This would be especially helpful as my feign death skill is currently less than stellar, so I fall to the ground a lot. This can easily create trains, which also happened on live.

BTW, having bind wounds be so effective as a downtime reducer (at least at this level) is very much appreciated. I'm glad WR got this skill right where live always seemed to get it wrong.
 
I'm a monk (just hit 25) and currently have a 14/42 weapon in primary, and nothing in offhand (bare fist). Since a bare fisted monk has a weapon delay of 30 and under, I would expect my hands to swing at different times if they are truely independent.

This never happened. Every time I hit with primary (42 delay), I also hit with offhand. The punches were always synced. Now, the damage did seem fairly high, so I'm guessing it was treating as if I had two 14/42 weapons, but I can't be sure without parsing.

This is because certain packets are bundled together before they are sent out, so you recieve those packets triggered in a certain time span at the same time -- the attacks are independent of each other but the small delay between the two means that they are always bundled together.
 
This is because certain packets are bundled together before they are sent out, so you recieve those packets triggered in a certain time span at the same time -- the attacks are independent of each other but the small delay between the two means that they are always bundled together.

That makes sense, but raises another question. Why are the packets bundled together when mainhanding the slower weapon, but when offhanding it they are no longer in sync? I'll admit it wasn't a very scientific test, so I might have just gotten lucky with the timing of the "switch slower weapon to offhand" test.

As long as this is just an issue of incoming data timing and has no effect on in-game damage performance, then it doesn't really matter.
 
Kobex said:
This is because certain packets are bundled together before they are sent out, so you recieve those packets triggered in a certain time span at the same time -- the attacks are independent of each other but the small delay between the two means that they are always bundled together.

That makes sense, but raises another question. Why are the packets bundled together when mainhanding the slower weapon, but when offhanding it they are no longer in sync? I'll admit it wasn't a very scientific test, so I might have just gotten lucky with the timing of the "switch slower weapon to offhand" test.

As long as this is just an issue of incoming data timing and has no effect on in-game damage performance, then it doesn't really matter.

It's all data timing, no worries.
 
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