Mana Regen. annnnnd..... rambling.

H

Hostyle

Dalayan Beginner
I'm a lil upset with the new patch regularing the mana regen rule when engaged with a npc. Now not only have bards been nerfed mana regen of any kind from means of spells, but they also have to go through this cut in half verision of regen even with ft? Seems a little unfair...
I'd also like to mention i've noticed that 16 ppl killed zirvae and i heard that, that had a small roll in why this new mana regen was implemented. Leading me to my next question which is why whenever anyone does something remotely difficult does it get nerfed? Should players strive to not over come the odds and stay at the normal for fear of nerfage? :?
 
So combat mana pool has been reduced by 50% and the illusion ahs been reduced to 10% save. Doesn't this give raids massively less mana now then it did when they were using 5 cleric chains and then only after you basically have a FULL turn out?
 
Clerics with infinate mana equals a nono.
We have nothing nothing against "trying to overcome the odds", as long as it's done within intended limits, i.e. doing Zirvane because of infinate mana isn't intended.
 
But really was a 50% reduc in total raid staying power the answer when some of the illusion save % could have been trimmed off and trialed first?

And from what *I* heard Zirvane was being tanked on atleast a 40 pause due to how wimpy he is now (top hit 900). With a pause that high any cleric could essentially have near infinite mana a MONTH ago with only decent FT and a couple mana buffs.

If these changes went in before our raid last night we would not have killed 2nd watcher simply because our wizards, necros, and magician would not of had the in combatmana to burn all of it's hp as with 24 people we barely won and all the nukers were first OOM when the mob was still about 30%.
 
It seems as though this was a balancing for clerics, but a pretty big downside for any other class.
 
Raherin said:
It seems as though this was a balancing for clerics, but a pretty big downside for any other class.
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Exactly! Now when casters want to group, or god forbid they solo, we will have to med for copious amounts of time inbetween kills....as if downtime wasn't enough before =\ yucko!
 
The reason for this patch on mana seems to be due to the Cleric casting CH and regening mana, please tell me if i'm wrong.

Why cant they just stop any form of mana regeneration in casting or cancel all mana regen bonus' when casting? wouldnt this solve the issue?
 
Cathis said:
The reason for this patch on mana seems to be due to the Cleric casting CH and regening mana, please tell me if i'm wrong.

Why cant they just stop any form of mana regeneration in casting or cancel all mana regen bonus' when casting? wouldnt this solve the issue?
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That fucks over raids harder than you might think.

Maybe only 68+ mob aggro should count towards this.
 
re

Wow this is a HUGE hit for myself being a druid anyways.

Didnt know about the patch this morning and started fighting in DN. I could bearely kill a rat soldier with a 3200mana pool. wow, this REALLY changed the game. Thats with WoN, JB and Mask of hunter up. dam...........

Bormie
 
Re: re

seolblade said:
Wow this is a HUGE hit for myself being a druid anyways.

Didnt know about the patch this morning and started fighting in DN. I could bearely kill a rat soldier with a 3200mana pool. wow, this REALLY changed the game. Thats with WoN, JB and Mask of hunter up. dam...........

Bormie
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So, you couldn't kill a rat soldier because you had 140 less mana per minute of fighting?

Bullshit.

Also, everyone going "why does all accomplishments get nerfed!" or "raids are DEAD" really don't have a shred of the facts. Here are the facts, nicely presented to you:

3 clerics, without even using shape of the channeler, without dumping, with a bard and decent FT, can maintain a CH chain that can be used to tank a quad 1200 mob for 20 minutes.

In essence, this basically means that under pre-patch rules you could do Zirvane with say, 10 people. Probably even less. It's not an "accomplishment" to have endless mana, and trying to spin it like that is just despicable. It's a godmode toggle, plain and simple.

I'm sorry if this strikes against all classes, but first of all please don't do as Bormie or Duma and pretend it cut your mana in combat in two to try and twist the truth into a rally point - we're not in politics here. In a regular fight of two minutes or so you lose an average of around two hundred mana (JB + self buff) - less than ONE spell at level 65. In exchange you gain 250 mana/minute extra in medding between fights, so kiting classes should be benefitted if anything.

Also keep in mind since medding mana was doubled you still gain full medding mana while kiting if you sit down.
 
Unfortunately being 2 kiting classes myself, a wizard and bard it doesn't help, when I try to charm fight mobs i have to zone after i charm a mob so i can actually regen, which totally sucks. also as a wizard i barely have a mana pool to quad kite in eld's and this just totally ruined that, usually i had to go oom then med up to cast another spell now i can't even do that. :(
 
Part 1:

3 clerics, without even using shape of the channeler, without dumping, with a bard and decent FT, can maintain a CH chain that can be used to tank a quad 1200 mob for 20 minutes.
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With a 1500ish proc as well? C'mon..... :brow:

What is zirvanes slowed delay? 1.5? 2?

4800 4800 4800 4800 + ~1500 max damage per 6 second tick at 1.5 second delay. Coltaine has 8500hp, roughly. So from one source I am hearing he was tanking this on a either a 4 or 5 second pause chain infinitely. So by these numbers Coltaine is avoiding and mitigating more then 50% of all damage from level 70ish mobs to achieve a 100% chance of round to round survival rate until next CR hits....

This does not add up. And if the chain was tighter.......
---------------

Part 2:

We had almost the same set up in prison the other night before the regen nerf. 3 clerics 65, 65, 60, 2 with 4500mana pools flowing throught 13 and 10. NO shape, NO bard, 3 THREE necros dumping (after the fight) and our top clerics were finishing single pulls of sentinels on a 22 rotation with 20-30% mana left, the other cleric OOM, after a 90 second fight. The necros were going oom between every fight dumping us back to as close to full as possible. We had to log the druid for the bard because of it and move the pause back to 30 and then AND ONLY then did we finish the fights with more then 60-75% mana each.




So the numbers aren't exactly lining up somewhere because we seem to have two extreme opinions of what the returns of the previous system were.
 
Duma said:
Part 1:

3 clerics, without even using shape of the channeler, without dumping, with a bard and decent FT, can maintain a CH chain that can be used to tank a quad 1200 mob for 20 minutes.
Click to expand...


With a 1500ish proc as well? C'mon..... :brow:

What is zirvanes slowed delay? 1.5? 2?

4800 4800 4800 4800 + ~1500 max damage per 6 second tick at 1.5 second delay. Coltaine has 8500hp, roughly. So from one source I am hearing he was tanking this on a either a 4 or 5 second pause chain infinitely. So by these numbers Coltaine is avoiding and mitigating more then 50% of all damage from level 70ish mobs to achieve a 100% chance of round to round survival rate until next CR hits....

This does not add up. And if the chain was tighter.......
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Coltaine and Alazif avoid + mitigate on average 65-70% of the damage. So there's your answer for that.

Part 2:

We had almost the same set up in prison the other night before the regen nerf. 3 clerics 65, 65, 60, 2 with 4500mana pools flowing throught 13 and 10. NO shape, NO bard, 3 THREE necros dumping (after the fight) and our top clerics were finishing single pulls of sentinels on a 22 rotation with 20-30% mana left, the other cleric OOM, after a 90 second fight. The necros were going oom between every fight dumping us back to as close to full as possible. We had to log the druid for the bard because of it and move the pause back to 30 and then AND ONLY then did we finish the fights with more then 60-75% mana each.

So the numbers aren't exactly lining up somewhere because we seem to have two extreme opinions of what the returns of the previous system were.
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Newsflash: I was watching, and you had a way too fast chain, Alazif never even went below 60%. If you heal too much, you will use too much mana. Amazing, no?
 
re

Wiz, i never said i couldnt kill the rat soldier, i said it was almost impossible now with lowered mana regen while aggro. With JB, WoN and Mask of hunter up. I could take down a rat soldier with root rotting and pet melee and at end of fight barring no resists would be left with around 2 bars mana. I was down to about 3% mana this morning. Thats what i was saying. Thats a HUGE differance
 
Re: re

seolblade said:
Wiz, i never said i couldnt kill the rat soldier, i said it was almost impossible now with lowered mana regen while aggro. With JB, WoN and Mask of hunter up. I could take down a rat soldier with root rotting and pet melee and at end of fight barring no resists would be left with around 2 bars mana. I was down to about 3% mana this morning. Thats what i was saying. Thats a HUGE differance
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How long are your fights?
 
re

At work atm Wiz. when i get off and get a chance to log back in ill time a couple differant fights for ya and report mana at start and finish of each fight along with length of fights. also ill track which spells were used to help with calculations

Bormie
 
question

If your a cleric (or any other casting class) in an exp group pulling mobs your mana regen will be half whenever the group is fighting a mob? or does your mana regen only drop after you've casted your first heal, nuke, slow etc???

I'm guessing this would suck majorly for chain pulling groups LOL
 
Re: question

Mager said:
If your a cleric (or any other casting class) in an exp group pulling mobs your mana regen will be half whenever the group is fighting a mob? or does your mana regen only drop after you've casted your first heal, nuke, slow etc???

I'm guessing this would suck majorly for chain pulling groups LOL
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It's if there is any mob aggro on you. So if you sit back out of aggro range and don't cast your mana regen remains normal.
 
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