Making The Vah a little more accessible

null1fy

Dalayan Elder
Let me preface this by stating that I don't have the oversights or experience of watching the game develop like many of the developers, GMs and players have from years of playing and improving this game. I've only been a part of Dalaya from 2009 however, since that time I have noticed the paradigm of the game change and I think one of which we can agree on is the tenacity to which players are working on The Vah.

I'm a firm believer that questing in games should be an enriching experience to add additional incentive to a players experience - to explore new zones they would have not otherwise gone to, to strengthen the community by requiring groups to achieve a common goal - these sorts of things.

There are many thing which The Vah does right, in my perspective - difficult quest drops from zones like Shir Blades, Eyes, Keys, Sextant et cetera. These difficult drops set constraints in the quest which pace it out and require a player to visit zones multiple times. It promotes experience groups and also allows for other players the potential to work on other quests while in the zone.

With that said, I believe that The Vah is currently reducing player accessibility to content and promoting unhealthy competition. This is mostly in the fact that there are monsters on 5 day timers which are crucial to Vah progression - Summoner, Assassination targets, Parcelain, the list goes on. There is, however, one exception in the quest: Mielech the Reanimated can be knifed while his quest version is up, *Mielech the Reanimated. This sparked an idea in my head - why do not other monsters in the quest series have quest versions? With the difficulty and rigor to The Vah surely having these quest version mobs up, essentially, 100% of the time cannot 'open the floodgates' so-to-speak for Vah completion.

I suppose that you can have two perspectives on this; Either that some quests, like the Vah, should require players to be both capable of killing their targets and also capable of tracking them (realistically, camping them), or that merely your ability is limited to how far you can progress in the quest. I think that traditional EverQuest in the first few expansions of the game held on strongly to the former belief, for example, having epic quests which required players to camp for hours or days. If The Vah is to be regarded in this way perhaps making quest versions of mobs might reduce the 'epic' factor. However, if Dalaya is intended to be more accessible than traditional EverQuest and allow casual gamers a more equal opportunity, then The Vah is practically a train-wreck for this intention.

Personally, I believe that having quest versions of monsters added would reduce stress on zones intended for lower-tier player content and altogether be an improvement to the game. Forgive me if my insights are short-sighted, and I'd love a healthy discussion as to why perhaps I may be incorrect as to how I believe that this would improve the quest series and the game.

Also, cian, I'd prefer healthy discussion. "If I had to do it this way, so should you" is a terrible, warped, sour perspective and has no place in this thread. Thank you.
 
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Probably 50+ people have Vah now and had to do it the hard way, what makes you so special that it should be made easier?
 
Probably 50+ people have Vah now and had to do it the hard way, what makes you so special that it should be made easier?

It's not about making it different just for him because he's special, it's about making it reasonably more accessible to everyone who wishes to progress.

I view it as just a bad idea in general to promote an environment where players will deliberately halt the progress of other players by killing quest mobs. I also view it as a bad idea to put drops that would encourage people who are not currently on the quest to kill the mob, especially when it is on a 5+ day timer.
 
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Along the same lines, "it's too hard" is often not a good argument for changing content

Are you suggesting that tier 4 is running out of targets for legit guilds to raid because high tier people kill Earth Terror, Eurikos, and some Earth bosses? Come on. The only mob that I don't like being part of Vah is cmal 3.2, because that's a key dropper and essentially the only 6 man at that tier
 
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Eisley, stop it dude. You're a good guy but you're just trolling this thread. You know that the quest is probably one of the worst in the game right now in terms of difficulty and unhealthy competition. Go to the Happyland forum and troll there.


VVV Mikaruge, you are. Take any sarcastic or off-beat comment and shrug it off. I expected there would be a lot of people who have already completed the quest to bitterly post in response. You'll know a constructive reply when you see one. Don't give them the satisfaction of validating their immaturity.
 
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Along the same lines, "it's too hard" is often not a good argument for changing content

There's a point where something becomes unreasonably "too hard"

If a mob requires your group/guild to be T12 and they're only T5, that is perfectly fine.

If a mob has a hilariously long spawn timer and a small group has it on lockdown because it happens to drop an Ancient or whatever other petty item they want, then there's a problem.

I hope I'm not unknowingly being trolled here!
 
You have to either give up the time it takes to complete the quest (these bottlenecks were there for everyone who's completed this) or give up on the reward.

If we're making things more accessible for progression purposes, I'd like to see quests for ancients/relics/archaics that don't involve raiding (cuz I'm a casual player that can't raid).

Edit: this may have come off a little trollish, but it's mostly serious.
 
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If we're making things more accessible for progression purposes, I'd like to see quests for ancients/relics/archaics that don't involve raiding (cuz I'm a casual player that can't raid).

I'm a casual player as well but can we stick to the topic of the Vah specifically, here? Just so this thread doesn't become sidetracked.

If you create a thread specifically for that idea I'll gladly chime in there.
 
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make it trolling. Adding * versions of Vah mobs would trivialize the quest. There's already more people with it than was intended originally. People killing Vah related mobs does not hurt the people on tier, there are many, many other raid bosses up in that tier right now. It is intended to a time consuming, prestigious item that no one is entitled to.
 
It is intended to [be] a time consuming, prestigious item that no one is entitled to.

If a developer comes in to post that, then I will have no response for them other than that, okay, I will continue on with the quest as it is intended. I can't argue with a subjective statement like that. But if that is the stance of the dev community, so be it.

Forgive me however, for thinking that is a terrible way to design a video game: "I want to make content that no one should be able to see".
 
What do you think tier 13 is, or the endgame of any MMO? If everything is easy and you don't have to work for anything, the game will not be very fun.
 
I feel like some quests and some mobs out there should be exactly the way the vah is now. however i wouldnt be against making * versions of mobs particulary the assassinations. i know DOZENS of people who have given up on vah at this point because they just simply cananot find the mobs up EVER. i've literally seen mobs like melwin pop (like wasnt on track a min ago and now it is) and then see a group of people that come in and kill it within 15 mins.

With vah being the longest and hardest quest currently implimented i don't see any serious issues wiht making * quest mobs. however if someone asked for loot drop chances to be upped i'd say hell no. Hell maybe even make * versions and decrease drop rates on certain items to to compensate.

Just my thoughts
 
Afaik the vah is supposed to be a super long hard pita quest because it gives some of the best clickys in the game and trivializing it sounds like a bad idea to me. Maybe i see it differently because im a slacker and the reward isnt really super enticing to me as an enchanter so i have an outside viewpoint
 
vah is just a luxury and not required for any fight in the game. In fact the current final vah back was changed recently because marza was being pressured to make fights balanced around such a retarded cooldown that could be used once an hour. if you don't/can't put in the time to complete it then that's all there is to it. People feeling like they NEED this item just because the other person has it idk what to tell you.
 
I think a lot of people aren't reading my post. I'm not trying to make the final item any easier to get. I'm not saying "Change the final event to T4 so that everyone can run around with a Vah Back" or "Make the sextant a 20% drop rate". Merely, I'm suggesting there are 5 day timer mobs right now, intended for lower tiers, never seen up because people who lock down timers keep them in check.

That doesn't feel right to me, sorry.
 
I think a lot of people aren't reading my post. I'm not trying to make the final item any easier to get. I'm not saying "Change the final event to T4 so that everyone can run around with a Vah Back" or "Make the sextant a 20% drop rate". Merely, I'm suggesting there are 5 day timer mobs right now, intended for lower tiers, never seen up because people who lock down timers keep them in check.

That doesn't feel right to me, sorry.

What are you suggesting be done about this? Making the mobs have * versions is just simply not an option as doing so would in fact make the final item MUCH easier to get. Assassinations and the raid mobs are the major bottlenecks in the quest and they are needed in order for the quest to retain some difficulty. On top of this, like Eisley said, aside from Cmal 3.2 which is 6man and a key dropper, none of the other mobs are needed for any sort of progression and there is certainly not a lack of content around those tiers.

You're saying, I don't think this is right but you aren't giving any realistic suggestions on how to fix the so called "problem" that you see exists.
 
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make it trolling. Adding * versions of Vah mobs would trivialize the quest. There's already more people with it than was intended originally. People killing Vah related mobs does not hurt the people on tier, there are many, many other raid bosses up in that tier right now. It is intended to a time consuming, prestigious item that no one is entitled to.

There a dev just told you thats how it is.
 
aside from Cmal 3.2 which is 6man and a key dropper, none of the other mobs are needed for any sort of progression and there is certainly not a lack of content around those tiers.

Even if it were only this changed, to come from my post, I would consider it a victory.
 
Eisley, stop it dude. You're a good guy but you're just trolling this thread. You know that the quest is probably one of the worst in the game right now in terms of difficulty and unhealthy competition. Go to the Happyland forum and troll there.

You asked for input from Staff and you got it.

I only really read through the OP so there are probably several responses similar to the one that I am about to give but here goes..

There are several aspects of SoD that Are Not Required for any raider at any tier, but are definitely beneficial and add to your character's effectiveness. Do you need a Supreme Charm? No. Do you need 30+ tomes? No. Do you need a Vah back? No. But having these things certainly provides a cushion to your margin for error.

These are all luxury items. Sure, FWF is full of Supremes / Vah Backs / dudes with 60+ tomes but FWF is also full of some of the most dedicated players on the server, hence why they are in the top guild. If you want to be the best, then you usually seek out these things because they distinguish you from others. If you are more worried about experiencing content and having fun with your guild, by no means do you need any of this. People play this game for different reasons. The Vah is a quest for Min/Max style players, and as such, it should be a bitch to complete.
 
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