Making pets Scalable.

S

speakeroo

Dalayan Elder
Howdy, Jeanval the mage.

I double checked through my postings, and apparently I have not suggested this idea on the forum yet, so here it goes.

The main complaint you will hear from pet classes is that the pet does not scale well as you progress through the tiers. There are a few pet tomes to help this, there is increased companion health/strength to aid this as well. From what I have read, is it is very much a problem of pets having little to no mitigation of damage so an extra level of companion health doesn't help that much when the mobs hit much more harder. The last major change to pets that I know of, was a fix in the pet hp code, that cost most everyone 1-2k of pet hp, which doesn't particularly help at all.

My suggestion is to give a player's pet a bonus hp mitigation bonus based on the player's hp/mana respectively maybe additional traits. A simple fix would be more health, but that does not give a pet which can scale, which is what is desired. Any additional armor could be done with another tome of pet armor line. A major way to track a player through the tiers is by their fomelo hp/ac/mana, and it would be a good metric to give additional bonuses to pets. I.e., every Y mana gives X Bonus to mitigation. That way when you get a new piece of gear, not only you but your pet gets stronger.

An additional thing that may help would be to let some tomes also effect pets. As far as I know, they do not, and I apologize if I am wrong. But, an example that I can think of is the healing proc from mage and bst pets. If I understand it correctly, the bst healing proc is always originated from the bst himself, so any healing AAs, tomes, and so forth are added on. Whereas, the mage healing proc from the water illusion, it is originated from the pet itself, so healing charms and tomes don't have an effect. Healing increment has an effect in both cases. This is a bias in favor of the bst that seems to be given from the way the code is, not by design. The mage proc is designed to be less than the bst proc in base value, because bst are part shaman. They should heal better.

My previous ideas have been expable items for pets, so a good owner can make their pet stronger.

The main counter-argument against the buffing pets always sound like pets should not get that powerful. I can understand that you don't want to get one spell to get some over-powered pet, but that is not what this is suggestion is for. It is suggesting a way for a pet to get stronger as the owner gets stronger and progresses. If you take an honest look at what some other higher geared pc's can do, it probably does not seem so much out of line.
 
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at higher tier, where pet classes are suppose to be able to be solo classes, their is a lot they cant do that say a equally geared/exp'd tank could do in their sleep.....

i think adding tinkering in and just tossing in a whole crap ton of pet gear would be a solution... or making more monster in the world drop tier appropriate gear for pets...
that iksar guardsman had a cool axe... why cant i steal it for my pet hold it again?
 
what about a mage summon-able item that has a worn mitigation bonus, wouldn't that solve the problem it would be a pet only item of course.
 
speakeroo said:
Howdy, Jeanval the mage.

I double checked through my postings, and apparently I have not suggested this idea on the forum yet, so here it goes.

The main complaint you will hear from pet classes is that the pet does not scale well as you progress through the tiers. There are a few pet tomes to help this, there is increased companion health/strength to aid this as well. From what I have read, is it is very much a problem of pets having little to no mitigation of damage so an extra level of companion health doesn't help that much when the mobs hit much more harder. The last major change to pets that I know of, was a fix in the pet hp code, that cost most everyone 1-2k of pet hp, which doesn't particularly help at all.

My suggestion is to give a player's pet a bonus hp mitigation bonus based on the player's hp/mana respectively maybe additional traits. A simple fix would be more health, but that does not give a pet which can scale, which is what is desired. Any additional armor could be done with another tome of pet armor line. A major way to track a player through the tiers is by their fomelo hp/ac/mana, and it would be a good metric to give additional bonuses to pets. I.e., every Y mana gives X Bonus to mitigation. That way when you get a new piece of gear, not only you but your pet gets stronger.

An additional thing that may help would be to let some tomes also effect pets. As far as I know, they do not, and I apologize if I am wrong. But, an example that I can think of is the healing proc from mage and bst pets. If I understand it correctly, the bst healing proc is always originated from the bst himself, so any healing AAs, tomes, and so forth are added on. Whereas, the mage healing proc from the water illusion, it is originated from the pet itself, so healing charms and tomes don't have an effect. Healing increment has an effect in both cases. This is a bias in favor of the bst that seems to be given from the way the code is, not by design. The mage proc is designed to be less than the bst proc in base value, because bst are part shaman. They should heal better.

My previous ideas have been expable items for pets, so a good owner can make their pet stronger.

The main counter-argument against the buffing pets always sound like pets should not get that powerful. I can understand that you don't want to get one spell to get some over-powered pet, but that is not what this is suggestion is for. It is suggesting a way for a pet to get stronger as the owner gets stronger and progresses. If you take an honest look at what some other higher geared pc's can do, it probably does not seem so much out of line.
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Pets already mimic the style, that their owner uses (or used to).

Since this is regarding higher level/tier pets here comes another suggestion: What about making it so, that your AA's spent into Combat Ferocity/Agility and their respective upgrades have at least some impact on your pet? Or is this already working in some way? This would as well add a reason for casters to spend points into those AA's other then waving their e-peen on max'd out AA's.
 
There is a mage AA called elmental mastery that already does that. As far as I know, tomes of avoidance and/or resilience do not carry over to the mage pet.

The main problem is the pet's do not scale into the later tiers well. At 63, you'll get that pet, then in t3-5 you'll probably get your relic. At t11, you can get the runic2.

An interesting thing I did, was I plotted pet hp vs level of the spell for 4-relic. I used the earth pet because they had the most hp (companion health off). If you do that, you will see it has an exponential growth. But, as you progress through tiers, you'll get companion health, which adds 5 % for every level. This is a linear growth, which does not match an exponential curve. By all means, repeat the experiment for yourself.

It is where those two lines diverge that the problem people notice and complain about. Because you'll see your pet lose chunk of hp from a mob 30-40% from 1 riposte off a mob, because someone turned it an aoe pretty much kills your pets, that type of thing. If you are not paying attention and the pet eats enrage, that is the players fault. Or not summoning your pet out of escapable aoes.

Was I able to address your comment properly Manluas

To Kavassa: At one point I suggested expable gear for pets, that way the better the pet owner at keeping an alive pet, the better the pet would get. I don't know if that is mechanically feasible or not.
 
sk pets are not useless. Can be used for pulling, baby dps, aux for you sometimes, and with class tomes done, exploding! First and foremost sk is a tank, you get a pet because you caster counterpart has a pet.
 
speakeroo said:
There is a mage AA called elmental mastery that already does that. As far as I know, tomes of avoidance and/or resilience do not carry over to the mage pet.

The main problem is the pet's do not scale into the later tiers well. At 63, you'll get that pet, then in t3-5 you'll probably get your relic. At t11, you can get the runic2.

An interesting thing I did, was I plotted pet hp vs level of the spell for 4-relic. I used the earth pet because they had the most hp (companion health off). If you do that, you will see it has an exponential growth. But, as you progress through tiers, you'll get companion health, which adds 5 % for every level. This is a linear growth, which does not match an exponential curve. By all means, repeat the experiment for yourself.

It is where those two lines diverge that the problem people notice and complain about. Because you'll see your pet lose chunk of hp from a mob 30-40% from 1 riposte off a mob, because someone turned it an aoe pretty much kills your pets, that type of thing. If you are not paying attention and the pet eats enrage, that is the players fault. Or not summoning your pet out of escapable aoes.

Was I able to address your comment properly Manluas

To Kavassa: At one point I suggested expable gear for pets, that way the better the pet owner at keeping an alive pet, the better the pet would get. I don't know if that is mechanically feasible or not.
Click to expand...


My point was from an overall view since Necros for example do not get something comparative to Elemental Mastery (we DO get a ton of other nifty stuff) but since our pet is considered a notable part of us I came up with a sort of general suggestion.
Since progression through the raid tiers will automatically result in some sort of XP-gain you'd have the possibility to benefit from more or less useless AA's when they'd impact your pet (just for the sake of a number: 5% of the impact the AA has on you for example). Could be expanded to your Stat AA's (full AGI gives like 2% mitigation or w/e is applicable).

Maybe don't take this as a set suggestion but more as an incentive to think outside the box and come up with something unusual.
 
Oh ya, my bad. I usually think of things from a mage perspective. I was looking at your AAs, you get a few nifty things, and shared power is like a lesser form of elemental mastery. A boost from stats sounds nifty too.
 
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