Mage Dot line + Summoned Items

Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
Currently mages have a line of spells that starts in thier 40s and then abrutly ends mid 50s.
Mages also seem slightly behind here and thier on DPS compared to other DPS classes.

Suggestion:

Reduce the Casting time on Elemental Maelstrom and Wrathe of Elements to 3.5 sec. , maybe even 3 sec. (current 7 secs).
Increase Recast time, prehaps 12 secs.
Add in a Small MR adjustment around -25 to help round out mages options for High MR resistant Mobs and to help offset longer recast time.

Mana may or may not need adjustment

What this would give mages is a quick cast DPS spell to throw inbetween Rains/nukes. This spell would not be multi target friendly Due to its recast time(thats what thier rains are for). But it would slightly increase mages DPS vs Single targets that last long enough for the spells 5 ticks.

Along with this, Add in another of spell of this line around level 63. Following the pattern already set by the first 2 spells.

Currently:
EM hits for 250 and ticks for 100 (240 mana)
WoE hits for 350 and ticks for 120 (265 mana)

New Spell
??? hits for 450 and ticks for 150 (285 mana?)

*as it currently stands this line of spells is basicly useless to the mage. Some use when you first get them, but quickly gets replaced and never contiunes.


part 2

Everyone argees one problem mages have in the later game is AoEs destroying thier pet. Also do to Relic pets mages have lost some of the customization for encounters that they once had.

Suggestion:

Add 2 new Summon weapon spells.

Spell 1

Summon: Sceptre of Power (Level 65 spell)
Basicly same stats as current weapons of Power (save for being blunt).
However in place of the current Runeguard, this weapon would proc a Rune Vs Magic/AoE (same strenght as Runeguard is vs melee).

This would help pets weather AoE encounters.

Spell 2

Another roll that mages had from Live, that I think could work here is just pure DPS additions to pets. For those times when your pet doesn't need runeguard and you just want a bit of extra DPS.

Summon: Spear of Lightning

Spell summons a Spear with similar stats as current Rune Blade. However instead of Runeguard proc, the spear has a simple 50 DD magic Proc (could add a bit of Negative MR check here -25?)

Its not a lot of extra DPS, but does give the mage the option of outfiting thier (or others) pet with extra DPS at the cost of Runeguard.

Suggested Level 49 (current weapons of choice are 29 Swords, 39 Daggers, and 65 for Powers).

This would also help mages in thier 50s, as I found mage's pet damage was erratic with the pet spells being split up over several levels of spells.

Thoughts? *please be nice*
 
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Salarus

Dalayan Master
To be honest, i've never mained, or raided a mage. However, I do know a little bit about them, and I am also under the impression that they are ever so slightly lacking. I do not know the progressions of the DoT spells even though you did a good job of showing them, I don't know how often they are used, and I don't know if a new spell in this line was added that it would greatly, or slightly benefit them, so i'm not going to comment on that. However, I do like this idea here:




Spell 1

Summon: Sceptre of Power (Level 65 spell)
Basicly same stats as current weapons of Power (save for being blunt).
However in place of the current Runeguard, this weapon would proc a Rune Vs Magic/AoE (same strenght as Runeguard is vs melee).


Provided the spell rune isn't too high, I think it would be a good item for low tier raiding, as long as it kept with the same principals as the other weapons of power (long recast iirc)

All in all, good thread, and I hope someone other than me takes interest.
 
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Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
I can answer the Dot line question.

Mages only get 2 of these spells (44 and 55), On live they came out with Velious if I recall and then the spell line was dropped. Even in current live up to level 85?? Mages have nothing that contiunes this line of spells.

Since Rains didn't work worth a dam on live the spell had a bit more usefulness thier. SoD Rains work, so the spell lost its usefulness.

When looking at the DD from those levels you find that the Dot ones don't really do much more damage, have longer cast times, and require 5 ticks to do thier damage over the instant DDs. One could argue Aggro.. since the Dot ones hit smaller and tick however...

From playing my shaman I can tell you in many Xp groups its almost pointless to use my Disease dots (9 ticks) because the mob will never live that long. Even my poision dots (4 ticks) sometimes don't have enough time for the last tick.

So those Dot spells currently on Mages have next to 0 usefulness for a mage. I think the one time I used them was back in my mid 40s when I was aggro kiting Spectres around. Couldn't really use my Rains, but the long cast time on these spells made them strickly a opening attack spell and nothing more.

One of the common problems Mages face during raids is thier Monster Summoning line being almost worthless. Once you get into Tier 5+ thier seem to be a lot more Raid mobs that AoE, and that just destroys your Monster Summoning DPS (and swarm pet DPS).

As to the Spell Rune, Im not 100% sure how Runes work in SoD. On live even a small rune would absorb the blow before poping. (100 pt Rune would still absorb the entire 500 dmg hit and pop).
I think SoD follows the same rules, so what would be important is the proc rate of the weapon. If it proced to much the Pet would be immune to normal AoEs, not enough proc and its not really useful. Current Runeguard procs seems to be pretty good, but I can see were the proc rate on the Spell Rune might need to be lowered vs Runeguards proc rate.
 
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Dzillon

Dalayan Master
I am really fond of the sceptre thingy. Really a great idea, would add diversity to mage summons. Wouldn't be overpowered either since they would stil only get one every 2 hours. I remember a lot of brainstorming about mage pets dying to AEs ; here is a good answer.

Now about the dot...I don't know from scratch why dots exist for mages. If it's supposed to be as useful as druid's (with who they already share some common points) then adding a full line of dots (maybe like a 60 and 64/65 could be interesting, while keeping them poor ratio. But tbh
1) high level mages will bitch at having to take care of another focus effect
2) somehow I think after all the stuff I heard on mages that their job is not doing dots
 

Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
To be honest I have never found Affliction Enchancment to be "uncommon" focus effect. So you certainly wouldn't hear me bitch about needing the focus effects, its rather easy to come by.

(prehaps the best rank of your teir can get tricky... but seeing IV and V for AE at my teir seems pretty generious on Int Caster Gear choices. And its not like this would be the primary Damage mechanic of Mages. Having a focus effect a few ranks out of date isn't going to make a huge impact on the over all DPS of the mage with this dot line. If I recall even Enchanters have a minor dot style attack)


When you think about Rains, thier kinda dots anyways. I hate to see a spell line being wasted from the moment you get the spell as well. Mages already are short in "quick" attacks, granted this dot does its damage over ticks, but thier is a front loaded damage part of it thats much higher then other dots of its level range range. So thats another whole modifying the Casting time on these spells would help fill.
 
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Yona

Dalayan Beginner
I like the magic rune summoned weapon idea.

If the devs don't want to add a new spell for mage, what about changing spear of power or blade of power's proc with this magic rune ?
 

Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
That would works for me, for fluff reasons I would say Spear of Power over blade of Power.

Edit: Thinking more on this... Could turn Dagger of Symbols into the spell rune proc as well as the spear of power. This would give mages 2 lower level weapons (1 Runeguard, 1 Spellguard) and 2 higher level weapons (1 Runeguard, 1 Spellguard).

I personaly would love if the Dagger of Symbols Graphic was changed but thats not really all that imporant LOL.
 
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Crynel

Dalayan Elder
as a person that played a mage to 65 a well; i would agree the new weapons would be really nice to have but dont forget these items are useable by players as well and may need to be balanced for sake of not having Op summoned weapons for players.
i doubt most the effects like the dd or minor spell rune would be a problem though.
 

txwasthereasonn

Dalayan Beginner
I like the spell rune idea, maybe could make the weapon pet usable only. not sure if it's possible to do/summon that

for the dot line.. it would be cool to see an upgrade to this at like 60 or so. i can't see myself using it though tbh.
 

Manluas

Dalayan Elder
I like the spell rune idea, maybe could make the weapon pet usable only. not sure if it's possible to do/summon that

for the dot line.. it would be cool to see an upgrade to this at like 60 or so. i can't see myself using it though tbh.



Guess you could make them like pet weapons from Rust/EF/ToT with Class: None / Rass: None, thus they won't be usable by anyone but pets.
 

Dzillon

Dalayan Master
Last time I was in EF though, any weap with no Class mentioned couldn't be used by a pet. They don't have a race but they do have a class.
 

neonovas

Dalayan Adventurer
Last time I was in EF though, any weap with no Class mentioned couldn't be used by a pet. They don't have a race but they do have a class.

could make it class: all, race:none then?

I also like the idea, i liked how i kept getting new pet weapons up until 39...and then nothing until 64 except like throwing daggers/arrows. The spear would be a nice step around 49-54 between the two.
 

robopirateninja

Staff Emeritus
Part 1:
I agree that the spells don't really go anywhere, but I'm not sure why they need to. If a mage is dpsing on more than one target the recast on their rains already let them refresh two rains before they expire.

For single targets mages can chaincast bladewind as fast as it pops.

To make these spells useful to a mage they would need to be better than rains or single target nukes and I can't think of a single reason a mage needs DoTs, rains, and nukes that are all competitive with each other. Also less of an issue, but mages already need to stack up more focus effects than anybody else and in Ikistih they are already going to need more elemental focuses, if these DoTs became useful at 65+ they would need to gear for affliction enhancement too, that might not be tons of fun for them.

Part 2:
I like the idea, Mage summons have always seemed somewhat lackluster to me in the high end besides peridots and modrods and even though I hate summoning stuff as much as the next guy it would be nice for mage summons to be more attractive in the endgame. Cool idea.

The lightning spear thing is kinda bleh to me, I don't have much to say about it one way or the other.

You guys are starting to scare me.....

56 views... almost a day later and not a single reply/flame/or comment.
Considering its length, the OP was probably the most readable posts I've ever seen from you. :dance:
Read this and you'll keep improving: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They're
 
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vistachiri

Dalayan Master
More weapons would be great. Personally I'd love to see something around the elemental ally proccing petweapon. Runeguard is on most of ours, and I don't really see the need for it to be. I'd definitely like to see more variety in terms of them.

Later on provided you do things correctly with barrier ward ae's are no longer the gigantic problem they once were. They are a pain in the ass, but not insurmountable with the exception of a few fights. I'd rather things geared towards dps, than things geared towards the pet avoiding damage tbh, furthermore I think having multiples of any of the procs is very redundant, and would much rather see making tactical decisions on procs other than do I want a few hp or a few resists. With a greater variety of procs we could make better, and far more interesting decisions.

As for dots, the only way I would consider them to be the slightest bit useful on a mage is if they were very long duration, decent damage over the course of their usage, and had the weakening component that every other dot under the sun has (but which rains and dds lack). Right now they are less than worthless, and the only real reason to load them under any circumstance whatsoever is if you want to give someone debt in pvp. As it stands scars of sigil is a good choice for a quick toss in spell.
 
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Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
Thats why I suggested knocking the cast time down to like 3 secs. I have noticed for me, casting rains with SCI 4, thiers a delay between the 2 rains. Not enough to get a full nuke cast between without slowing down the chain raining. Maybe with SCI 7 theirs enough time for a full nuke *shrug* I can't comment on that yet.

A quick cast dot, would fill that rotation gap rather nicely, and give a purpose to a spell line. In its current form, might as well not even be on the mages spell list.

Idealy for procing summon weapons I would love to see most of the Live ones come here. (Cold Proc, Magid Proc, and Fire Proc weapons). Since they havn't already, I am guessing thiers a reason behind it.

They are already None/None so thiers no player balance issues.


robopirateninja:

Ummm... thanks... I think. :)
 

vistachiri

Dalayan Master
Thats why I suggested knocking the cast time down to like 3 secs. I have noticed for me, casting rains with SCI 4, thiers a delay between the 2 rains. Not enough to get a full nuke cast between without slowing down the chain raining. Maybe with SCI 7 theirs enough time for a full nuke *shrug* I can't comment on that yet.

A quick cast dot, would fill that rotation gap rather nicely, and give a purpose to a spell line. In its current form, might as well not even be on the mages spell list.

Idealy for procing summon weapons I would love to see most of the Live ones come here. (Cold Proc, Magid Proc, and Fire Proc weapons). Since they havn't already, I am guessing thiers a reason behind it.

They are already None/None so thiers no player balance issues.


robopirateninja:

Ummm... thanks... I think. :)

We already do have something to toss in there. Though the dot being somewhat useful in any situation whatsoever (a line to throw on when one cannot rain for example due to proximity to mezzed mobs, or the mobs proximity to you) would be nice. Or something one could toss on intermittently throughout the chainrain.

Scars of sigil fills the raingap at a cool 1.7 cast. More than sufficient to fill the gap without delay, and more useful than bladewind as a result tbh. More to the point, I'm not particularly disagreeing with you. I just see a vastly different usage as far more viable due to already possessing a spell to huck in there without needing yet another focus effect.
 

txwasthereasonn

Dalayan Beginner
Part 1:
I agree that the spells don't really go anywhere, but I'm not sure why they need to. If a mage is dpsing on more than one target the recast on their rains already let them refresh two rains before they expire.

For single targets mages can chaincast bladewind as fast as it pops.

Agreed on the multiple mobs, two rains will refresh in time and that is sufficient. But for single mobs, chain casting bladewind will get you killed very swiftly. So an upgraded dot shows some purpose, it's just a matter of how good they would make it without people yelling OP or vice versa.
 

Kirin Folken

Dalayan Elder
We already do have something to toss in there. Though the dot being somewhat useful in any situation whatsoever (a line to throw on when one cannot rain for example due to proximity to mezzed mobs, or the mobs proximity to you) would be nice. Or something one could toss on intermittently throughout the chainrain.

Scars of sigil fills the raingap at a cool 1.7 cast. More than sufficient to fill the gap without delay, and more useful than bladewind as a result tbh. More to the point, I'm not particularly disagreeing with you. I just see a vastly different usage as far more viable due to already possessing a spell to huck in there without needing yet another focus effect.

Aye, Scars is a nice spell.

The quick cast dot was just a nice way to give a option along with Scars and slightly increaseing mage DPS. Instead of the first cast of Scars you could cast the dot, and then the 2nd time would be scars alternating between them.

Honestly even if their wasn't a need at higher level of adding a quick cast 63 level dot, I would still love to see the 2 lower level dots turned into quick cast. Since at those levels not only are mages lacking Quick Cast spells, but we don't have 2 large Rains to chain cast together.

Just noticed Robots mention of Rains for multi targets, notice the 12 sec recast on the Dot Suggestion. No were in my OP did I claim this dot would be used on Multi targets (even mention thats what rains were for). I argee with the above as well that Chain Casting Bladewind is a good way to get killed.
 
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