Knights /s 9

K

Kakos

Dalayan Adventurer
Checked under balancing discussion, saw a reference to it but no details.

Tried it, I think I did more dps.. but can anyone give a more precise description of what it does? Is it increased 2hand dps at expense of mitigation etc...

Kak
 
Stance Notpit mentioned will be going to both knights at level 20, if it goes through at all. Atm its a 20% increase to 2h dps with a reasonably slow stamina drain (think we tested it at > 3 minutes to empty the bar depending on endurance amt). Playing with a bigger spike (maybe ~50%) with very rapid stamina drain. In both cases you can switch out when you want too. No guarantee this will be getting out of crashville though. EDIT Essentially this would amount to a choice between which is more useful, increased sustained DPS on fights you aren't tanking on, versus burst-ish DPS when you need it, say during curses etc.
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The post is on page 12, so it is understandable why someone would not want to read through all the BS to find it.

On my Paladin, the drain takes just under five minutes with a stamina regen buff. A friend of mine was on his warrior/druid and I wanted to get some AA's on my Paladin and so I tried to dps with them in Rust (Rustwalker area and undead). By resting between pulls, I was able to keep the stamina up fairly well if I used this stance judiciously. That is, if it was an easy fight I would not use it. If we had more than one or whatever, I would use it for the duration of the fight.

Using a Shadow Wraith (42/54 http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Shadow_Wraith ) I was doing mid 80's damage on /s 2. With the /s 9 I peaked at 161 and 185. Of course my dps was better on the undead. On the mini-named (Sharra) I was at 92.49 Nilaat got 166 dps. I think this stance is nice if a knight is trying to fill a dps only spot in a group. But to keep this in perspective: granted Nilaat is better geared, but a tanking warrior is still out-dps-ing my knight on full dps mode.
 
I don't disagree at all there. Azmat gave me permission to use his toon as a punching bag. Not sure when I will have time though.
 
Take of all his DR gear, and use a weapon that does more than 2 dmg as its minimum.

Remember, hits that get mitigated to a 0 supposedly get counted as misses, and this would skew your results. The same goes for DR, it favors a stance that increases how much you hit for over a stance that increases how fast you hit on a parser, especially with low damage weapons.
 
Well, I was trying to get some numbers for this stance as to what it was supposed to do but, its apparent the dev's would like us to test it before they talk about it more.

So, here are my quick parses that I did on 11/15/09.

stance92and1.png


Here is the sum:
Stance 9: increased my dps by 12.8% over stance 1 (increased my average hit by 13.6%)
Stance 2: increased my dps by 13.8% over stance 1

All parses were done for 5 - 5.5 minutes on Ringo w/ sanguis regina, empower, focus, 45% haste, max attack, max diety spec, max tomes, max crit strike.


Interpretation of the information suggests two things:
1)More parses should be conducted.
2)Stance 2 is more dps than stance 9.
 
This sounds pretty bad :/ Style 2 has a haste component at the expense of defense. I'd say draining offensive stances should start with the 10% haste point and further it with specific stuff (20% 2H in this case if I read correctly) while proly furthering defense decrease.

It might also be why flurry of blows sucks so much for beastlords (maybe monks too) since /s 2 has a haste component and doesn't have the erratic dexterity that /S 5 implies.
 
Looks kinda like a repeat of the old /s 5 vs /s 2 issue (did that ever get fxed?)

Definitely might be useful to see some parse done with other tiered paladins (get on that Notpit :) ) Just to see if its just the same issue poping up again like before that the 5% haste on high tier toons just over shadows the DPS stance.
 
stope21 said:
Well, I was trying to get some numbers for this stance as to what it was supposed to do but, its apparent the dev's would like us to test it before they talk about it more.

So, here are my quick parses that I did on 11/15/09.

stance92and1.png


Here is the sum:
Stance 9: increased my dps by 12.8% over stance 1 (increased my average hit by 13.6%)
Stance 2: increased my dps by 13.8% over stance 1

All parses were done for 5 - 5.5 minutes on Ringo w/ sanguis regina, empower, focus, 45% haste, max attack, max diety spec, max tomes, max crit strike.


Interpretation of the information suggests two things:
1)More parses should be conducted.
2)Stance 2 is more dps than stance 9.
Click to expand...

Judging from the crit percentage and total number of attempts, I'd say some longer duration parses are required here. I wasn't able to get on until it was time to raid last night, but hopefully tonight I'll have time to do some additional parses with lower tier knights and see how they compare.
 
At current stamina drain levels, I don't think you'll be able to use /s 9 for much longer than what Stope did. This 2h stance should be the stance of choice for 2h weapons, so will make some adjustments to it tonight (can be done hot). Will post here when thats done.

/s list should show it now too, assuming the patch went in properly, which I haven't personally verified.
 
Cyzaine said:
At current stamina drain levels, I don't think you'll be able to use /s 9 for much longer than what Stope did. This 2h stance should be the stance of choice for 2h weapons, so will make some adjustments to it tonight (can be done hot). Will post here when thats done.

/s list should show it now too, assuming the patch went in properly, which I haven't personally verified.
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Ah yeah that's a good point, forgot about the stamina drain.

Tomorrow is supposed to be garbage weather and I'm off all afternoon so I'll do multiple full-stamina parses just to get more yummy numbers to post and prove knights are the most underpowered classes etc etc.
 
Cyzaine said:
At current stamina drain levels, I don't think you'll be able to use /s 9 for much longer than what Stope did. This 2h stance should be the stance of choice for 2h weapons, so will make some adjustments to it tonight (can be done hot). Will post here when thats done.

/s list should show it now too, assuming the patch went in properly, which I haven't personally verified.
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Tiight, thanks for keeping us in the know!
 
Well I did not read Cyzaine's post before spending an hour trying to get a good parse. So, I am posting it anyways. Fivof used a Soulfire in 2H form, only buff he had was self-haste. Target was Azmat with all damage reducing gear off, and the darn rune proccing wrist item removed (grrrr) with only HP buffs (raego, sss, rfocus) and JB. With no stamina buffs, stance 9 only lasted 3 1/2 minutes.

FivofvsAzmat2hparse.jpg
 
Cyzaine said:
Not unexpected results. Its at the highest end that haste seems to trump all.
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I had always assumed the haste was +10%, not (60+45)*10%, so it seemed like the higher haste you had, the smaller % increase you would see from using /s 2. So in effect, a 10% damage increase would actually improve your dps 10%, while 10% haste would improve your dps by 4.9% (using above hastes).

Is this not the case?
 
It probably is multiplicative rather than additive. So base attack rate of 1, empower is 60%, item is say 45%, and stance is 10%.

1*1.6*1.45*1.1= 2.552 times higher DPS than attacking at the base attack rate.

1*1(.6 + .45 + .1) = 2.15 times higher DPS than attacking at the base attack rate.

So yeah, the higher the haste percentage of the spell and item you have, the bigger benefit you'll see from /s 2 (Assuming that's how the different hastes are applied, which they do as far as I know).
 
I realize the stance is being changed a bit, but Notpit you might want to try parseing Azmat vs Fivof (get a healer to help keep Fivof up lol).

Would give you 3 parse of differently tiered Paladins to compare how it works out.
 
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