Innate criticals

Drotic

Dalayan Adventurer
Clerics/Warriors - make sense that they get them
Wizards who in my opinion are the caster counterpart of rogue class also get criticals.
I am not entirely sure why paladins (against normal mobs) get them but they have them.

Rogues do not receive those even thought I always thought they are experts at mele. I don't know maybe it would make them unbalancing or something making them do more mele dmg than they already are doing but personally I always thought that crits had a flair of cool factor around them adding extra few % of dmg.

BTW this primarily concerns low level rogues not the higher level ones who have access to AAs and items. Keep that in mind
 
Let's not revise class balance because you think it "makes sense".
 
I am pretty sure that Low Level Rogues have access to "Backstab" which is pretty WIN as far as melee dps is concerned. Notice that none of the other classes that you listed have access to this skill.
 
I am just saying that crit usually have the cool factor not the dps factor attached to em. Like ppl in my groups usually congrat wiz who just did lots of dmg or cleric who saved caster with a crit or whatever. That is what I am getting at.
 
Drotic said:
Like ppl in my groups usually congrat wiz who just did lots of dmg or cleric who saved caster with a crit or whatever. That is what I am getting at.

and rogues w/ nice backstabs.......
 
Drotic said:
Wizard crits except for Primals, Crit heals, and rogue backstab usually goes into general spam and get lost there

Fixed. Seriously. If you are ooo'ing, and ah'ing every time a healer crits, or every time a wizzy crits.....wow. Very rarely do you get in situations where gratz is definitely deserved as time goes on. This applies with every class. Not just those. Most crits, heal or nuke go unnoticed the further you go along. Here's the ones noticed

Wizzy's=> primal blast, rarely ultimate blasts noticed, usually on a oneshot if so.
Healers=> CH's. Successful low health game.
Rogues=> ASSASINATE!

To reiterate most things get lost in general spam. Your argument sucks.
 
I have a window for every different filter. Unfortunately rogue backstabs still get spammed away too quickly to see because they are bunched in with "Others damage"
 
Drotic said:
I am just saying that crit usually have the cool factor not the dps factor attached to em. Like ppl in my groups usually congrat wiz who just did lots of dmg or cleric who saved caster with a crit or whatever. That is what I am getting at.

Wiz could you add in a script that pops up rogue backstab damage in an internet explorer window? I think you can do this with activeX controls
 
Would it be nice to have backstabs be under a separate filer? Yeah, but most people don't care what you just backstabbed for....

I've always thought it should have been rogues get innate crits on backstabs.... but they don't, they never have, Wiz won't change that, and I don't exactly blame him. I've also felt that monk special attacks should have a crit chance, but they don't, and won't.

One thing I have wondered though is if rogues in SoD get double backstab like rogues in EQ did, i never bothered to ask anyone as it isnt really game breaking and wouldnt make me any more likely to actually level a rogue.
 
Normally as soon as a get a huge backstab I'm like "Whoah Backstab for XXXX" in vent.

Hard to not notice when I get a big one.
 
By the way is this suggestion forum or flame everyone who has a suggestion you personally don't agree with forum?
I don't expect all my suggestion make it to the changes to the game since it is a developers call. I play and enjoy SoD as much as everyone else. I am making a suggestion. Not a demand.
 
Only when the same person repeatedly makes game balancing or classbreaking suggestions that they haven't thought through, for self-serving reasons, with a two-line post.
 
I see why he would ask that, rangers can crit on melee before AAs right ? why not rogues ?
But yeah at the same time they do a fucking shitton of dmg already, GG backstab, so no go. Question answered.
 
I did not think rangers get innate crits at all, unless it is just to bows. I think the only melee with innate crits are paladins and warriors. I could be wrong here.
 
To give a balanced decision here you really need to look into the reason why a critical hit is just that in RP sense.
A critical hit is dealt when an enemy/opponent is struck into a open position or if the skill of the dueler is able to land a hit in an unprotected/weakly protected spot. This gouge is considered a critical hit and thus deals more damage to the opponent.

Now as for rogues being the "masters of melee combat" They are armed with techniques and skills that allow them to do more damage in combat then the regular "fighter". Such as "Backstab", but does this also make them the master of precision as well? According to history, they have excellent senses and are able to determine when an opponent is open for an a good strike. though years of training. So yes it would make sense technically for them to get some critical strikes, but on the other hand lets look at paladins and warriors.

Paladins and Warriors, both trained in face to face combat, roughened by day to day struggle with opponents. Knowing strategy to leave their opponent open and what will allow them to get at these "critical places".
So does this make them more inclined to be able to get this hits off? Yes it would, practice makes perfect and these classes are trained for just that.

So both make sense to have critical strike, rogues though skill "backstab". Warriors and Paladins though technique "Opening up opponents defenses and exploiting them".

So in conclusion rogues have skill, where the other classes have force. Would it be against RP reason to give rogues crit chance? No, would it be majorly supported? Not really either.

I wouldn't be apposed to rogues getting crit strike, but as Wiz said
Let's not revise class balance because you think it "makes sense".
 
The argument of people oo'ing and ah'ing when a wizard gets a crit but never noticing a rogue backstab is relevant. I've seen it happen many times. As for assassinate it happens way less than wizard crits do and the dmg is way more than what was needed to kill the mob that was almost dead in the first place, so it seems to be a waste.

As for early levels (before 50) evade sucks so bad and is so iffy that half the backstabs that might land are wasted as the mob turns on you. As for backstab...it misses....a LOT. I'm glad base dmg was apparently increased however so as to make dps a bit less spikey.

I have a 64 rogue, a 60 rogue, and a 30 rogue on this server. I have three because they were created at different times to play the game with different friends/guilds. I can safely say that not many people care much about whether a rogue is around unless:

a) They have nobody to bash open a chest on a tmap (and even bards can pick most open, so why bother with a rogue when you can get CC too?)
b) The rogue is 65+
c) The rogue happens to be in the zone and the group has one spot open so "Might as well invite"
d) They can't find a wizard

The class defining abilities of rogues are not very definitive at all. Sense/Disarm Traps and Pick Locks are used once in a while (and rogue pick locks is discarded on most tmaps due to bards and bashers). Hardly ever used really in the course of a normal gaming day. Backstab is the most situational dps method in the entire game.

I don't think it's unfair to ask for rogues to get a notification like crit messages when they land a backstab. I'm not asking for rogues to get innate crits or to change anything with the way the class works, just a little acknowledgment so that people who don't play one or haven't grouped with us much have an idea of some damage we put out.

Is it going to change class balance? No. Rogues just want some recognition is all.
 
In almost ALL exp groups a rogue is strictly better than a wizard. Having constant melee dps compared to a wizard that is burst and then has to med makes a huge difference. Rogues are must haves on raids and in exp groups. Their DPS is insane as is, I really do not think making it better is the way to go.

Not sure what people being excited about big numbers has to do with anything. If you ever get a large backstab give me a tell and I will congratulate you.

Edit: Necros, bards, and shamans all use DoTs as their primary source of DPS. None of these classes get recognized for the amount of DPS we do, but that has never made a difference (cannot see DoTs).
 
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