I'm really excited about the upcoming additions to SoD, but I wonder what else there

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Avannir said:
I have to say though I'm really disappointed at your lack of openness to ideas.
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Devs are always open to good ideas. But your idea wouldn't just mean making clerics more "impressive" (if client permitted), other classes would also have to be tweaked and raid encounters reworked.. because of one unhappy cleric. And after all that would be done, then someone else wouldn't be happy and they could keep "rebalancing" for all eternity. Cleric hots were already improved to make them more versatile and give them more space to debuff, dispell, melee, root, nuke between casting heals.
 
Avannir said:
I dunno about that. I know about that change, but I always thought that sitting was still better than standing, and that once the fight ends, if you are already sat down, you are likely to get in to a meditative trance quicker. I don't know if that's exactly right or not, but either way, it's pretty clear that Clerics spend most of their time either casting heals or sitting down. If they could recover some mana by hitting stuff or casting something, it could do away with the sitting and >.< medding, unless they really wanted to do that.
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The current system of mana regeneration was implemented to address the issues you are raising here. You apparently are not familiar with how the current mana regeneration system works so I'll explain.

You regenerate mana at the same speed if you are standing or sitting if you are not in a meditative trance. You can only enter a meditative trance if you have not cast a spell in the last 30 seconds (sitting before then doesn't make this happen any faster). If you do enter a meditative trance while in combat you'll regain mana at a fraction of the out-of-combat meditation rate. Engaging in melee combat as a cleric usually doesn't reduce your ability to perform your healing role much if at all. You likely are not selecting equipment that makes you proficient in this role (not suggesting that you should) so your DPS contribution is not going to be huge, but if you are just doing it for fun who cares?
 
Avannir said:
The developers of Vanguard did make EQ. Sigil Games was basically Verant Interactive but with a bigger budget. If you believe EQ was ruined, then blame SoE.
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Verant was always 100% part of SoE, as well as 989 Studios (Hello Playstation games, who makes Playstation again?) I'm sick of people thinking SoE is some big company that came and ate a little game and made it awful. Their plan was to always make it a terrible game, they just didn't put their flagship name on it until they were successful.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
 
Allowing clerics to regen mana at a fater rate while meleeing would make them insanely overpowered. It would be even more overpowered when stacked with FT which is why there was talk of nefing FT( which would screw everybody else ). The easiest solution here is to play a Druid.
 
Avannir said:
Adding /gems to EQ was surely one of the most telling things about the game. It highlighted a major flaw. If the downtime was that long and the game was so fucking boring that they needed to add a Tetris clone for people while they med.... then I question the original design for the game in the first place. Luckily, medding is faster in SoD than it was on old school EQ, but still, just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean it shouldn't be questioned and couldn't be improved.
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I was being sarcastic about playing gems.

My comments about playing another class were right on par though, because what you are asking for is to leave the cleric as the super powered healer it is, and give it more. Or alternatively, give it more and take away from their healing abilities, which would, DING DING, make them something else.

That wont happen.

If clerics are not fulfilling the role we intend for them, then ok, we will, and have, look to improve it. But we arent going to do that by giving them things outside of the role we want for them. Plain and simple. If that answer is "pissy" to you, you'll just have to deal with it.

When you ask for "more" with no clear direction aside from one way beyond what we want clerics to do, you are going to be denied. If you cant handle being told "no, and here are the reasons why" then theres little else anyone can do to help you.

Avannir said:
The developers of Vanguard did make EQ. Sigil Games was basically Verant Interactive but with a bigger budget. If you believe EQ was ruined, then blame SoE.
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I think you mean "bigger budget and absolutely no business sense", which is what led to its spectacularly bad release. Brad is a dreamer, not a businessman, and not a ceo, yet at Sigil, he was all three of those, and was horrible at two. Guess which two.
 
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i played a cleric on live and i have a 25 cleric here, I enjoy playing my cleric i get into groups a lil higher then me and it becomes hard (well not hard FUN is the word i like) to manage mana to keep everyone alive, am sure latter it will become "boring" when i have a full bar of mana and only healing the tank like on live but thats mostly due to the way most group encounters work. not alot of group encounters have AEing mobs every pull, or they don't pull 10mobs at once because it is overwleming and safe not to, now with that said it things would be more intresting if group encounters were set up that way =)
 
Budizzle said:
I'm not going to sugarcoat the truth in Teletubby vernacular to coddle sensitive people. It's not offensive to say that a stupid idea is stupid. Clerics are one of the most balanced classes on SoD, and they already have the option of contributing more to their group than just heals. Either the OP fails to know this, or he's being a high maintenance guido.
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Budrick is back.
 
Avannir said:
Why is that? Because your exp groups are constantly on the verge of wiping? My exp groups are not like that. Everyone is great at their class, and they all have extremely powerful characters. The attention requirement is no more demanding than simply watching the game and not being AFK. I've seen the EQ Cleric described as "Whack-a-mole" and it's hard to refute that really because that's pretty much what it is. If the red bar falls slowly, you click HoT. If the red bar is falling fast, you click an instant heal. If everyone's red bar is falling you do a group heal. It's fun! But it's not exactly amazing when you are single boxing, and all the sitting and medding doesn't really help that. Most other classes have something to do to break it up. Druids throw in some nukes, monks pull between fights, etc. The only reason Clerics don't have more to do, is because of a lack of imagination when the class was created in like 1997. Over a decade on, things have evolved but some of these classes haven't really changed. Sure there is Dawntide on the horizon and I bet that will be fantastic. But wouldn't you like to see more evolution in the game you have so much time already invested in?
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Who is your cleric? If your not a Twilight Underground cleric, and your exp groups are super safe and never near wiping, obviously you aren't playing to any of your characters potentials. Go try Emberflow bosses if your exp groups are boring, try some deep First Ruins named. Rust factory even, at least you have to keep moving for that.

If your playing extremely powerful characters, and then going to get exp in Eldenals, guess what, its going to be boring, because it's like if your a guild that raids Tower of Tarhyl, and decides they want to go raid Ancient Rock Torrent, your going to be bored, because your playing far far under your potential.
 
its ok avanir i like your idea dont be sad =). ok ok...no i dont really like it! but i kind of do =P. some people are just meany heads =(. BUT zaela isnt!!!!! she is the best person in the WHOLE wide world!!! =P
 
If he's not making terrible suggestions he's riding Zae's imaginary balls.

Unlucky gal answered the wrong petition.
 
I always melee in groups, and probably dish out somewhere between 100 and 200 dps depending on procs. I also drop a complete heal slot for a nuke if my mana isn't too taxed. This is in emberflow which is the hardest exp zone out there. Just relating my experiences with doing more than healing.
 
Avannir said:
Nah. FT wouldn't have to change at all. Nothing would need nerfing, and the objective would not be to make the class more powerful and overpowered. If that was the result, then it went wrong and it's not like what I described. The whole point of what I described is that it does things slightly differently but achieves the exact same thing, not does things differently and achieves an overpowered class that throws everything out of balance.

Bullshit. I know my class and how it works perfectly fine. If you don't like the idea it's either your taste, or you don't understand the idea. If the client restricts it, I want to hear it from a dev, not one of you forum lurkers. And I know for a fact that the idea isn't "fucking stupid" because it's been tried and tested in other games, and it's great. Try it some time?

You don't have to sugar coat anything, but you don't have to start getting insulting, ok? I'm happy to discuss this or I wouldn't have started a thread about it. If you can do that, great, if you just want to throw a tantrum then I'll just ignore you. As for what you said, I've already covered that earlier. As far as I'm concerned, I've grouped with some of the top Clerics on the server, and they stand and heal and then sit and med, so what I've said seems to be right. I would like to hear about this "contributing more than heals" because I just don't see it unless you're talking about raego. The only time I've ever seen a Cleric nuke, is when a group is taking it easy and the pressure is off the Cleric, and the same goes for melee.
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I will clarify for you once. If your brain cannot absorb what I offer then you probably have a learning disability, which is not my fault.

There's a pretty well known theory that can be applied here, it's called Newton's Third Law of Motion and it reads, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." You cannot make significant changes without it affecting other elements of the game in a negative way. Despite what your objective may be, the outcome is all the matters. It's the same concept as a criminal blathering about good intentions, albeit a slightly extreme analogy.

You claim that you've only ever seen a cleric nuke and melee when their group is "taking it easy," and yet, by your own admittance, these are the types of groups you're usually part of? Which means you have the option AND the ability to both nuke and melee in your groups yet you would rather whine -- oh my bad, "discuss" -- on the forums in lieu of doing so? These are the kind of flaws in your mentality that make your arguments unfound and, you guessed it, stupid.

Obviously you don't know how your class works, but that's irrelevant -- my statement is still valid. It's apparent that cleric is not the class for you in its current state (which is not likely to be changed, as mentioned), and you have not dabbled in the other classes. How do I know this? Because there are two fucking classes that provide the versatility you're looking for: druid and shaman. And, I promise, main/solo healing a group as a low tier shaman is both exciting and challenging.

Think harder and play a bit more before passing judgement on class roles.
 
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Budizzle said:
I will clarify for you once. If your brain cannot absorb what I offer then you probably have a learning disability, which is not my fault.

These are the kind of flaws in your mentality that make your arguments unfound and, you guessed it, stupid.
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you are one angry little troll. the guy never said "gimme gimme gimme gimme", he was just speaking his mind and sharing ideas. the SoD boards are not only for top end players who have been in all the zones and "done it all". this is a place to share ideas, "discuss" them and to ask questions. if you dont have/want to share anything useful, just stay out of the thread. all trolling is to take place in another section of the boards, not here.
 
Vartenaal said:
you are one angry little troll. the guy never said "gimme gimme gimme gimme", he was just speaking his mind and sharing ideas. the SoD boards are not only for top end players who have been in all the zones and "done it all". this is a place to share ideas, "discuss" them and to ask questions. if you dont have/want to share anything useful, just stay out of the thread. all trolling is to take place in another section of the boards, not here.
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I'm not angry at all. Also, my posts have quite a bit more substance than yours considering they actually address the OP and not just recap what this forum is about. Thanks though, champ -- I was a bit confused.

I never claimed to have "done it all." However, I do possess enough common sense to know that if I don't enjoy playing a clearly balanced class then that class will probably never be fulfilling for me.
 
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