I really want to play a Rogue, but...

Grundy923

Dalayan Beginner
I really want to play a Rogue, but they cannot solo for shit. At all. Well, at least untwinked they can't. Everyone tells me to "find a group." Easier said than done. I'm not opposed to two boxing, but honestly, I can't think of any class that would work duo with a Rogue. A rogue would need someone to tank for Backstab opportunities, so that kind of rules out any caster. If the other character is a tank, then there would be no healing.

So I don't know what to do. I really want to play as a Rogue, though. Anyone got any suggestions?
 
Shaman mixes really well. Mobs agro shaman after heals, shaman has ability to haste rogue and slow the mob... Just a thought. Personally I do a cleric / rogue combo as my alts. Never seems to be a shortage of tanks ready to join my group.
 
A beastlord, paladin, or chanter would probly work alright. Also, once you get the backstab from the front stance, tanking as a rogue for duoing isnt that bad
 
well, is Rogue gear has more STA on it... Rogues could tank...
i think i remember this discussion before heh
 
Rogues get a style at level 10 that lets them get in occasional backstabs while tanking. Boxing a healer and tanking with the rogue would work well enough for the times when you can't find someone to tank for you, as long as you're careful! (At least in theory - never played a rogue since that style was put in personally ;p)

Unfortunately, in my experience as a rogue through 100ish aa's, the /s 4 style has not ever been useful...if you wait for the opening and don't spam backstab, then you miss out on that periodic extra attack in exchange for an uncertain chance at a half-damage stab. If you do spam stab everytime it refreshes, odds are youll missthe stab opening.
 
You're right - they don't solo well

You shouldn't have to two box to play your character - and twinks are for the people who don't want to actually PLAY a game, and just want everyone to see their new shiny shoes. Go find a group? Hahaha - maybe when you're lvl 65.

I've always been a rogue, in D&D in EQ Live, anywhere there was a rogue class I would at least try. One thing about the rogue - can't solo crap. It doesn't matter what race you are, while you might not be terrible, other classes can solo better than you.

Yeah I can pick locks, find/disarm traps, and pick pockets but in games like this, theres not much opportunity where that comes in exceptionally helpful.... We're not useless by any means but lets face it... we rogues have been made into the tag-a-long. We're the temps at the office.

At level 20 I got poison. It was excited until I started trying to use it. Aside from having a terrible time making epic treks through cities looking for the ingredients I need (then failing at making the poison) at level 20 my poison only did weak stat damage and had a life tap equivalent effect. My SK friend was using life tap when he was still a noob. It didn't seem to fit my character level.

It's also exceptionally difficult to train any of your rogue specific skills. You can't train Back Stab when you're toe to toe with something. And while you can buy practice ingredients for making poison, by the time your skill is lvl 22 you don't gain anything for using the practice items. Somehow, though you've outgrown the practice items, you'll still fail 4 out of 5 times when you try to make real poison. Make sure you buy your ingredients in bulk.

Picking pockets is FAR more trouble than it's worth...Sooner than later, after a couple of botched attempts you're KOS and NOT just in the one city you were caught in. The guards keep in touch - you'll be KOS everywhere... buy some food and water before you practice, you'll be away for a while... or abuse some green mobs.

Race is a huge factor in how your rogue character pans out....don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It definitely seems like many of a rogues subtle aspects were overlooked. I've always been a scout type rogue: recon for the group, bring back some loot, but with all of the no drop items its impossible. Here it seems like a rogue is only thought of as a thug - go get some guy's eyes or pull out someones fingernails because they betrayed the guild. You work for the Sopranos. This is what you can look forward to with the rogue quests. You're not really a "rogue"... you're an assassin (YES there is a difference). It's tough to RP a sneaky rogue when you're forced to follow low-brow mentality.

If you want to be able to solo - my suggestion is to look elsewhere. My druid friend has been kiting yellow/red mobs since he was lvl 13... and out-leveled me in a day. He's now way out past me, and we're on just as often as each other.

If you're one of those few who want to struggle your way through, not twink or two box, and try to enjoy the RP on the way - welcome to the narrow road. :)
 
Its important to point out that rogue poison is purposefully intended to not allow you to use it to replace anything. So it doesnt debuff more than a necro, or lifetap for more than an sk, or slow for more than a shaman, etc etc. This is how it is intended, because if it started being used to replace classes, then it would be a problem.

It is intended for utility, and/or dps increase. Nothing more. If you are looking for it to replace anything, dont bother with it.

Rogues arent soloers, they arent intended to be; they are a very group dependant class, due to their need to be behind the mob to be most effective, on top of the fact they dont take hits well.

In short, you have two basic options. Either learn to rely on groups, or pick another class. A rogue/cleric duo was workable till around mid 20s, then stuff started hitting too hard to continue to be manageable.
 
what would be the world be like if they replaced shaman slows with rogue poison slows.. /ponder
 
How much damage are they? It is a reduced amount, I thought
In any case, /s4 still isnt as dependable as /s 6

Still wondering about this, if anyone knows...

Also, it really isn't impossible to solo as rogue---just really slow. But if you aren't interested in twinking, and just want to play the game, then finding out solutions for soloing as a rogue should be right up your alley in terms of fun. Hint: clicky mez is your friend, and is obtainable (in fact, must be obtained) @ level 14-17.

As for finding a group...make them yourself. I can count on my hands the number of times I have been picked up through LFG; this number is barely a fraction of a fraction of the number of times I have simply gone out and made the group myself. /who all <min level> <max level>, send tells to people within that range, and VOILA! you have a group.

As for a legitimate boxing partner with a rogue, a correctly geared cleric root tanking would work (going to have to disagree with Ikaa on mobs hitting too hard); I bet a shaman root tanking would be even better, with slow, haste, and other goodies. Paladins can tank and heal as well.
 
Well, the poisons were the primary reason I wanted to be a Rogue. I thought they might actually be done right on this server. But it turns out they're really hard to make and if you are successful they're next to useless. Not sure why. It doesn't have to be terribly weak slow in order to make a Shaman's slow better. Even if it was as good as a Shaman's slow, it still needs to be crafted and used and it has a random chance to trigger.

Definitely not anywhere near as reliable as a Shaman. Nobody would ever say, "Hey look there's a Shaman our level, let's get him in our group." and someone else would say, "No, Shamans are useless we have a Rogue."

The group would still want the Shaman, more people = faster experience, + Shaman means the Rogue would be able to use a different poison (for DPS) and the group would still have someone that can slow, and even more reliable. Plus more buffs, heals, dots, a pet, and haste if the group doesn't have an Enchanter.

Sorry, but I honestly think that's a really bad reason/excuse to make poisons weak.

PLUS even if the Shaman couldn't get a group, they can easily solo. A Rogue cannot. If rogues are meant to be forced to group, then they should add something useful to the group to make them wanted. Not sure if it has changed, but I know a while ago Rangers could easily out damage Rogues. Why is it OK to make other classes more desireable for the Rogues one and only use, but it's not OK to make 1 class *almost* as good as one of the many things a Shaman can do?

Talking about Rogue having utility, but what's the point if that utility is next to useless?
 
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there are already a good number of reasons for rogues to be in a group.
one being pick lock, which bards can do, however it is a reason to get a rogue. also just straight constant dps is always worthwhile. during Tmaps both of which are desired.
 
Rogues are as far as my limited knowledge goes, *The* Best consistant DPS there is..

Wizards have Burst DPS but Mana plays an important roll.
Necros have Good DPS, but need longer fights to substain it (also takes a few moments to get up there)
Rogues have Good if not great DPS as soon as they hit autoattack/backstab no need for Mana, although endurance might be an issue, i dont know.

the point is, the Rogue doesnt care about mana or how long fights last, wether its 5 minutes or 10 seconds, the Rogues Gets his/her DPS from autoattack and backstab, no casting time, nothing.
 
Rogues are as far as my limited knowledge goes, *The* Best consistant DPS there is..

Wizards have Burst DPS but Mana plays an important roll.
Necros have Good DPS, but need longer fights to substain it (also takes a few moments to get up there)
Rogues have Good if not great DPS as soon as they hit autoattack/backstab no need for Mana, although endurance might be an issue, i dont know.

the point is, the Rogue doesnt care about mana or how long fights last, wether its 5 minutes or 10 seconds, the Rogues Gets his/her DPS from autoattack and backstab, no casting time, nothing.

I know they were in eq live. but my brother played on SoD in an extremely high-end guild, according to him it was the best guild on the server, the rangers consistantly and significantly out damaged the rogues.
 
I know they were in eq live. but my brother played on SoD in an extremely high-end guild, according to him it was the best guild on the server, the rangers consistantly and significantly out damaged the rogues.

not anymore.
 
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