Heros and the Path Foward?

M

Mager

Dalayan Beginner
Well i'm going to bring this out and get some reactions but so be it.

I'm curious as to the most recent nerfs. It appears to me that many characters at the high end game are getting knocked down because they have become to good as a result of AA's, gear, and experience in the game. I've played on many self sustained server before where the player population doesn't reach over 100 or more, and on all these servers legends develop... some people play a lot of the time and they become extremely good and well known on the server, they become a....Hero of sorts, I'm sure each of you out there has found some hero to follow after. They are the ones that you saw at lvl 1 or 20 or so on. They are the people you sent that tell to hoping they might bestow upon you some great ubber knowledge or even better yet a sweet ass weapon or gear :) these are the top tier players with all the gear and all the experience. They are the ones that are almost never defeated, they are the guys the lower lvl and the regular high lvl people aspire to be like.

Is this a bad thing? From my observations here on WR, it is a bad thing to become a Hero... your character begins to lose his abilities....his spell no longer work as well... he can't hit as much.... and those hours spent making 100 AA's are wasted in a patch.

Now I know this is done in the name of Balance.......but what about making new content that challenges these Hero... new content that forces them to develop new strategies....sure some of these Heros will just stray from the new content and say its too hard... but eventually those players will be forgotten as they have not conquered the newest foes. They have not moved FOWARD... that should be the direction of things fowards not backwards...

and backwards is the direction that I think these balance and player nerfs take things. THe nerfs require people to do the same tasks they have been doing but now they make them longer and harder for the same reward so what is the purpose of this?

I for one would love to see us continue to move foward with more zone and bigger better challenges. It would be a great day to see the zone of Kunark populated someday... I would love to visit my old stomping grounds of Warslik Woods.

As for the current nerfs and balances I'm not sure if I've been blinded by my old age of 65 in the game but there appears to be a great deal of players and a multitude of classes out there. If certain classes are lacking it might mean the class itself could use an over hauling instead of dampering the rest.

These are my opinions and just that, feel free to rip them up and quote my inaccuracy as I claim never to be too accurate :D

If this sounds disrespectful or such toward the server or toward Wiz I do apologize I love my home here and hope to keep it.... I actually would look forward to some player housing in ShadowHaven : )
 
The problem you are noticing is that the top end is pushing forward into uncharted waters. To maintain a balance for all there needs to be changes done. These sometimes in order to hit their target audience are so broad they affect everyone unequally. This is the nature of the beast. The way to keep these changes in line is to put forth productive critique.
 
You're arguing a non-issue. Please state the recent nerfs done aimed at raids, and you'll find them quite few.
 
I actually have to disagree with you Mager (sorry bro :( ). The one thing that makes WR so much better than live is just because Wiz (and the rest of the GM's) develop the game, they change players powers to balance (nerf??) out the game. They do that instead of makeing mobs hit for quad 2k dmg, then have to make items drop with +5k hp then make new mobs that quad for 4k dmg and so on. That is what happend to live, they just made new mobs hit harder, then to compensate that make loot with higher stats and more +hp and more +mana. To balance out melee that the last issue was about isn't in my eyes wrong, it's a balance to make the game more interesting for us players, how fun is it if you where able to solo any mob in the game. Is that fun ?
I have to agree that I didn't like the sugestion Wiz made the other day about buffs from a person and the efficiensy (spelling) if that player went LD or logged (to prevent buff bots), so instead of whineing (well I did that too :p ) I gave sugestions about it that Wiz liked, BUT Wiz put that idea on the shelf for now on and decieded to balance the game in a other way (melee hit rate) to make the game more interesting for us players.
You have to see that most of the balance (nerfs??) is a way to make the game still interesting for us players, sure some things are nerfs, but that is because when a item is created it looks nice, but then when that item gets dropped and in the hands of a level 65 player with 200+ AA the item didn't look so nice anymore, they notise that it way too overpowered, so they have to nerf it.
Lets take a example (not that this item exists but still), let say they create a item that heals for 50hp, instant clicky. Now when they created that item it looked ok but when in the hands of a player they notise that it's way too overpowered, they thought that a 50hp heal isn't that bad, what they didn't think of is that it can be chained clicked over and over and over and over...
Now, let's think that oh, if a player heal another player like that (on a raid encouter for example) that player would gain insane aggro. Now lets say that that item is in the hands of a warrior (the tank itself), he start of with hitting the mob and taunt it, then he start to hit the heal like "¤#&"¤& to heal HIMSELF, now, the war wouldn't have to even hit the mob anymore, he would gain all the aggro needed just by healing himself, now that item is WAY out of balance. So in that case they HAVE to nerf (??) it.
Remember that above was just an example over a item that doesn't even exist, it was just to say that some items must be changed after they end up in a cunning players hand because the creator of the item didn't think about that it could be (ab)used in that way.
 
sf

I get what you are saying FJ and thanks for the post.. to disagree is no biggie : ) in fact you disagree so damn nicely and calmly, its very cool bro.

I don't disagree to horribly with the DPS thing and I'm not sure I even understand the mechanics of it totally but for the most part I get that, and I know that LIVE went overboard on item abilities etc, but I'm not certain that altering a class like making torpor/slumber a self only cast for the shamans is a benefit to everyone else on the server. I'm not even a person that most of the nerfs will ever effect and I'm not a person with a bunch of AA's but maybe I'm just OVER sensitive or something I just feel that when you take something away from a class or character you should try benefit them somewhere else or at least take the time to post up the change and the reason.

It *appears* to me that when someone or a few people begin to find zones with better exp or situational fights that help them occurr exp at a slightly faster rate either the person or the zone is nerfed. This leaves a player upset because they were doing a great job and it leaves a zone vacant..... I guess it makes the rest of the population feel better as they know that no one will be able to make exp faster then them??? no matter how much work they put into their character and strategies.
 
well...

Only times I've tried torpor tanking with shaman / monk combo, Monk lost aggro and shaman got ganked while canniing. Perhaps this was because of all the DoTing I had done before I started torpor tanking... but whatever. It blows my mind.

I will, however, relay the story of grouping in ToT where a guardian got bugged to pop mob after mob... we killed 5 before the cleric and necro went OOM, at which point Alazif torpor tanked the next 2 before, on the 7th round, two popped and we flat out *died*

Torpor tanking was not situational, as wiz has said. It was useful for any group to be able to keep their MT alive, while melee sits in the corner, and the cleric meds up. With a tank who can keep aggro without attacking, it was hella overpowered, as the shaman could keep the MT alive long enough for the cleric to med between heals, and melees could keep on chunking off tasty bits of mob.

The idea that a shaman + meleex could duo anything that didn't do more DPS than torpor's Heal per second is disgusting.

Anyway. Mager: I think that the new line of nerfs / balancing has come because characters are growing to levels they haven't in the past. Hell, Breaker is a bigger tank than Coltaine now. The AA advantage is shrinking continuously, and Alazif now has a gear advantage, and is still climbing. Alot of items are dropping that simply haven't been on the SERVER before, and as such, tweaks need to happen. The new gear should open up new mobs, without horribly trivializing the old ones.
 
Anadin is pretty directly on the spot. I'm content with balance in the raiding game asides from some minor things that needed fixing like assault of shadows and cmal gloves for endless aggro.

The exp game is what these tweaks have been punching.
 
I dont have a high enough level charactor to argue anyones side in this, but i would just like to point out as a reference from live:

I played a mage, lvl 66 when i left and i never even got into time. I did some raids in the planes and lots of stuff into deeper zones in the newer omens of war expansion, so i ended up having almost 6k hp being a casual player/familly(mega casual weekend sometime) raider. Now this doesn't seem crazy when you are looking at the tanks who i was with in those ubber zones with like 12k hp, but when i wasn't raiding or doing hard content i would be in casual groups in lower lvl zones, and here is where you can see the imballance. Having max avoidance and hp aa's and almost 6k hp raid buffed meant that i was a better tank than some of the lower lvl melee charactors I grouped with. Dont let that happen to WR lol. of course i couldn't tank Gods, but heck, you can see where i am going. having lots of aa's and amazing gear should give you an edge. And i think that here on WR it does, but it should never make 2k hitting mobs necessary =D
 
heh.

but with 6k hp, a fast CH chain, and aggro capabilities... you could have tanked alot of Velious raid mobs.
 
thanks for your thoughts an opinions everyone. Honestly I appreciate the responses and opinions they have helped me learn and understand these changes.

I really want to thank those of you for posting and talking not just flaming and tearing apart. While I don't agree or like some of the changes made I better understand them and that helps a great deal.

Thanks all and long LIVE WR !!!!
 
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