FT reductions

Mythryn

Mythryn

Dalayan Master
So, quite a few mid-level (now anyway, used to be high end) raid items had the FT amount on them reduced by 1. Such items as Pulsating Bracelet of the Stasis, Wintery Flowsash and Shroud of Darkness are a staple of Clerics in the mid-level raiding game(most clerics still use Shroud of Darkness).
These items don't much effect the higher end raiding scene, as they can get better, and are WELL past killing these targets (or should be). As this really isn't effecting them, it really seems like a direct nerf to guilds who are just now getting to the targets who drop these items. Now, I am not suggesting some insane psudo-conspiracy directed at my guild and its clerics, but it's really unfair to us (aspiring raid guilds) that people before us had these items, and that made it easier for them to move on to those better items. I understand that awhile back, these items were top end (I was there when they were), and now they aren't, but that is NO reason to nerf them. If anything, add more FT upgrades in those slots for higher raid targets. This doesn't seem like "balancing".

Also, Stasis Bracelet is worthless imo.

-Myth
 
To add to what Mythryn said, concerning the Shroud of Darkness there was also a 10 wis/int and I believe 35 mana reduction on it if my memory serves me right, leaving it at a previous 20 int/wis and 60 mana. I would also like seeing this explained as well as the flowing though reductions on the items. The bracer from Stasis was pretty good seeing a negative 5 to all stats and then FT3 to make up for it, but having the stat reduction and only FT2 in a bracer slot makes me think again about why I'm wearing it. As a cleric, having my flowing throught dropped three points from the reductions on the bracer, belt, and shroud seem a bit extreme, along with the mana loss from the stat reductions on the shroud.

As Mythryn stated, this makes it harder for aspiring guilds to get to higher targets if their clerics get dropped down a peg or two.
 
Think in raid terms.

On an average five minute raid fight, 1 FT = 50 mana, meaning that the stasis bracer had an effective +150 mana. That makes it one of the very best caster bracers in the whole game, and it drops off a mob that can almost be trioed. Also, FT3 is practically only found on top end item, except for this item and...

Wintery Flowsash is kind of obvious, because FT3 is, as previously explained, only found on top end mobs, and this drops in Stormkeep off Enforcer. To give you an idea about these items, my cleric Icarium, who is one of Legacy's "main" three clerics, was using both two Stasis Bracers and a Wintery Flowsash despite having access to what should be significantly better items.

The Firkaal sash was also clearly overpowered and needed a general nerf; it was also way out of line with all his other items that practically suck in comparison, as they should given the difficulty of the mob. That most clerics still use Shawl of Darkness is a good indicator in and of itself.

We want to prevent mudflation both short term and long term. Sometimes we make mistakes, and sometimes we correct them entirely too late. That is our fault, but no reason to not nerf them at all.
 
That is actually...a great explaination.

But...

These WERE top end mobs at one point. Just because they are no longer, doesn't mean you should nerf their loots. I understand mudflation, I understand you don't want to see 150 hp/mana on all items and all of that, but, thinking in raid terms, this honestly hurts lower end guilds quite a bit. Legacy isn't going to suffer near as much as Venerate, or PR, Beyond, or Ruin (even they wont suffer that much). Our clerics need that FT, just like GoTW/Ruin clerics needed it back in the day. The only reason FT is such a big deal to Legacy is because most of thier clerics have maxed out Wisdom, so FT or raw mana is the only option, while other guilds really don't have that luxury. Why not add a new wrist item that has at least some positive stats, and 2FT and a better belt item, with say, more INT/WIS but 1 less FT targeted at the 'high end' raid game.

I totally argee with the Shroud. Firkaal is nothing, and the Shroud is very, very good.
 
The bracer has been overpowered for so long, which is why so many people strived to get one. It's still an awesome item.
 
Mythryn said:
These WERE top end mobs at one point. Just because they are no longer, doesn't mean you should nerf their loots. I understand mudflation, I understand you don't want to see 150 hp/mana on all items and all of that, but, thinking in raid terms, this honestly hurts lower end guilds quite a bit. Legacy isn't going to suffer near as much as Venerate, or PR, Beyond, or Ruin (even they wont suffer that much). Our clerics need that FT, just like GoTW/Ruin clerics needed it back in the day. The only reason FT is such a big deal to Legacy is because most of thier clerics have maxed out Wisdom, so FT or raw mana is the only option, while other guilds really don't have that luxury. Why not add a new wrist item that has at least some positive stats, and 2FT and a better belt item, with say, more INT/WIS but 1 less FT targeted at the 'high end' raid game.
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I am entirely unconcerned with who this hurts and extremely concerned with the balance of the items and raid mobs in the game. The fact that we screwed up and people have gotten used to this screwup does not mean we are going to let our screwup continue.
 
I am entirely unconcerned with who this hurts and extremely concerned with the balance of the items and raid mobs in the game. The fact that we screwed up and people have gotten used to this screwup does not mean we are going to let our screwup continue.
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If thats the case, then there is nothing this thread is going to do about it.

tia :sadf:

edit: im done
 
Thanks for actually taking the time to put out an actual response Zodium, rather than just saying there was balancing going on. I could try arguing for hours on end under the theory that it's unfair for newer guilds to need to use a watered down version of these items when older ones had the original version of them to work with to get to higher raid mobs, but I won't.

A) It's kinda pointless if I did that, B) It'd get nowhere, C) I have more important things to waste my time on. Okay, I may be lying with point C, but for the sake of argument, go with me on it. I may not completely agree with it, but it is a reasonable fix so I'll deal and go on with my playing. This is just a game after all. :eek:
 
Newer guilds have access to a much larger item base than the older ones did. While some of the older items did get a hefty nerf there are plenty of newer items that compensate for this (that don't require a raid force to obtain).

Case in point - Blazing Crown
 
As diolas pointed out, it may seem that newer guilds are being punished on a surface level, but in reality they are at a great advantage in that they have access to powerful AAs we never had, five extra levels (the max level was 60 for a long time), tons of more content and quests, a playerbase that is over ten times as large as back then and faster leveling times (though AAs are probably slower now). It took something like a year before the first guild killed Ghanherizoc, a mob that could plausibly be onegrouped now, and they also had to deal with huge lag and stability issues, plus a million other issues. Average player power has gone up MASSIVELY since the "old guilds" (GOTW and Ruin - GOTW is dead, with Phoenix Rising and Legacy being its descendants) were on the rise and a guild like Venerate has entered tiers of raid content in months that it took us years to reach.

All in all, I have to say I am largely unconvinced that you have it as hard as you seem to think, or at all. :)
 
Zodium summed this up perfectly, so I'll just leave this with my assent to what he said.
 
Keep in mind, not all rising raid guilds will have access to a 6.9khp Warrior with all AAs from the get go. That being said, I still feel the nerf was appropriate to some extent.
 
Elysium said:
Keep in mind, not all rising raid guilds will have access to a 6.9khp Warrior with all AAs from the get go. That being said, I still feel the nerf was appropriate to some extent.
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Ahh, this reminds me of my lovely old level 1 warrior on EQLive:
blatant.jpg
 
58 pally tank still wearing wyvernfang quest gear tanking SK AM ftw =P If that's not sexy I don't know what is.
 
Will like to point out that one of the reasons why Wiz nerfed down the FT was doe to more new items with FT on. so yes you may lose 1 point of FT from your wrist but you may get 1 for your shoes(example the boots that drops from sludgebreath) and some other item that drops elsewhere that has not yet been found, maybe a quest or a mob, so at the end you maybe gaining FT instead of dropping, you just have to find whats new in the game before you go ramping.
 
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