Force of Body

Dinadass

Dinadass

Dalayan Pious Diety
The second monk class tome, Force of Body, increases damage done by Flying Kick. Prior to the monk combo system, monks spammed Flying Kick every time it refreshed while fighting. With Force of Body 2 (100% increased Flying Kick damage) my kicks typically parsed at around 30 DPS with full raid buffs. This means each Flying Kick tome was worth around 7.5 DPS, although it varies based on haste, my target, stance, etc. It is also worth a bit more while tanking multiple mobs thanks to the chance to Flying Kick when you riposte (Return Kick AA).

Now that the combo system is a thing, Flying Kick is not spammed every 4-5 seconds like it was previously. Some combos use Flying Kick once out of every three attacks, and other combos don’t incorporate Flying Kick at all. Since I frequently require 2 or more Round Kicks to initiate a combo, I end up using Flying Kick less than a third as often as I previously did. In raid and group settings where I am DPSing a target from behind, my Flying Kick now averages approximately 10 DPS. Each Force of Body tome is giving me 2.5 DPS total. I thought Force of Body was pretty lackluster before the combo system, and now it is flat out awful.
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So, here are some ideas to improve this tome directly or indirectly:
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1. Allow Flying Kick to initiate combos so higher level monks can substitute it for the first Round Kick of each combo. This still leaves Force of Body at ~5 DPS per tome which is pretty bad.
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2. Rather than increasing damage done by Flying Kick, have Force of Body give all Flying Kicks a chance to trigger an additional Flying Kick. Have the percentages line up so that Force2 still gives about double base Flying Kick damage and Force4 around triple base damage. This would give additional boot procs which are not generally substantial DPS but would make the tomes contribute a bit more damage than they do now.
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3. Change Force of Body to affect all monk special attacks. Unfortunately, none of the other special attacks do anywhere near Flying Kick damage, so this would still mean Force of Body would be much weaker than it was previously while spamming Flying Kick. Perhaps the tome could add a flat damage value or give your special attacks a proc instead of a percentage increase or have it make every monk special attack also trigger a Flying Kick.
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4. Change Force of Body into something completely different. There have been many ideas kicked around in threads over the past couple years either regarding Force of Body or the currently missing Monk Third Tome. Making Mend do something new, letting us triple attack more or crippling strike higher level targets, increasing the damage or other effects of our combos, improving our stances somehow, etc.
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If anyone else has ideas or thoughts/comments please share!
 
I don't think that's possible, although I could be wrong. That would be a really cool change though if someone pulls it off.
 
To make force of body more balanced i would recommend each rank could increase the damage of all monk specials (dramatically not a measily 50%) or increase damage/effect of combos, perhaps both to a lesser extent.

To add some fun flavor force of body could increase allowed time to complete combos or increase accuracy of specials as these are quite insignificant in power.
 
Im lookin at my recent gongo parse wasnt boxing just max dpsing:
466 crushing dps (Shadowstaff w/4 bane dragon)
330 nonmelee dps (procs and combos)
17 kick/strike dps (monk kicks and strikes)

So if upping damage on monk kicks/strikes they need like a factor of 10x. If those were doing 170 dps with force of body two would feel about right.
 
Thats about the dps increase thats needed to make monks close to equal geared rogs / rangers imo. It could be added anywhere I suppose though not just our crappy class tome.
 
Raxton you should post raid dps parses in the combo thread. I don't think Force of Body should be that extreme of a DPS increase, and if monks show that we're still lagging several hundred DPS behind other classes then tweaking the combo system is probably the most likely solution.

But Force should definitely be worth more than it is currently (~3 dps per tome in Raxton's parse for example), hence this thread.
 
What if the tome was changed to focus more on tankability, since monks shouldn't be close to Rogues or Rangers in the first place.
 
Obscenitor said:
What if the tome was changed to focus more on tankability, since monks shouldn't be close to Rogues or Rangers in the first place.
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why shouldn't they be? I'm not saying they should be the same but why should they be nearly half the dps when that is all a we do at the high end.
 
since force cant decrease the reuse timer on abilities what if it it increased the duration of the combos effects (dps, tank, slow time, and mez).
 
Yeah it seems like everyone has a different opinion on where monks should fall in regards to both DPS and tanking. I think the DPS combo is a pretty cool idea because theoretically we can't tank with it active so doing real DPS numbers would seem appropriate IMO.
 
Raxton said:
Thats about the dps increase thats needed to make monks close to equal geared rogs / rangers imo. It could be added anywhere I suppose though not just our crappy class tome.
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Look, rogues have one thing and one thing only: DPS. The only class that should ever worry about comparing with rogue dps is wizard. If you want to be closer to rogue dps you should have played a rogue. Instead you wanted to be able to tank a bit and split as well. "But we can't tank in raids!" But you can easily tank in a duo. Guess how well a rogue tanks in a duo? Poorly. I usually let the healer tank.

If you want to compare yourself DPS wise, I don't see any reason you should be comparing yourself to rogues. Beastlords? Sure. Rangers? Maybe. Mages? Why not? Rogues? No. Just stop.

Edit: And actually I remember monk offtanks in raids through ToT on occasion. A rogue can off tank in a raid exactly as long as his dodge stance lasts.
 
JDJersey said:
Look, rogues have one thing and one thing only: DPS. The only class that should ever worry about comparing with rogue dps is wizard. If you want to be closer to rogue dps you should have played a rogue. Instead you wanted to be able to tank a bit and split as well. "But we can't tank in raids!" But you can easily tank in a duo. Guess how well a rogue tanks in a duo? Poorly. I usually let the healer tank.

If you want to compare yourself DPS wise, I don't see any reason you should be comparing yourself to rogues. Beastlords? Sure. Rangers? Maybe. Mages? Why not? Rogues? No. Just stop.

Edit: And actually I remember monk offtanks in raids through ToT on occasion. A rogue can off tank in a raid exactly as long as his dodge stance lasts.
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Rogues at the high tiers aren't clearcut top single target dps though, if they were you'd be absolutely right. The difference between rogue and wiz/rng/mage/nec is so small that it doesn't even really matter. If the custo sword hadn't been nerfed and with the new rogue BS opening system rogues might have pulled away but even then, high tier fight mechanics tend to favor ranged dps anyway so they'd still probably parse pretty close on most fights.

It all depends really heavily on which specific endgame items each person has too. A monk with a shadowstick in a tier11 guild probably parses pretty well compared to other t11 dps. But then the other dps classes get pretty substantial dps increases from other things in the next two tiers and monks get weapons that are dps downgrades.
 
Dinadass said:
Rogues at the high tiers aren't clearcut top single target dps though, if they were you'd be absolutely right. The difference between rogue and wiz/rng/mage/nec is so small that it doesn't even really matter. If the custo sword hadn't been nerfed and with the new rogue BS opening system rogues might have pulled away but even then, high tier fight mechanics tend to favor ranged dps anyway so they'd still probably parse pretty close on most fights.

It all depends really heavily on which specific endgame items each person has too. A monk with a shadowstick in a tier11 guild probably parses pretty well compared to other t11 dps. But then the other dps classes get pretty substantial dps increases from other things in the next two tiers and monks get weapons that are dps downgrades.
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So you're basically saying that since Rogues aren't clearly the top DPS, then you guys should be as good at it as they are? Something is messed up, and you wan't to fix it by not fixing it at all?
 
No, I'm saying that I don't think monks should be drastically lower DPS than rangers, mages, necros, or possibly even wizards, especially if monks doing DPS have to sacrifice a ton of avoidance to do so via the new combo system. Increasing monk dps to levels similar to "second tier" DPS classes is the simplest fix for this issue, rebalancing every other class instead is not. Likewise, rogue DPS in my opinion should be higher than it is currently, but that is not really at all what this thread is about.
 
With the DPS combo and Tanking combo swapping attack chains lately, Flying Kick is no longer used at all for DPSing in groups or raids, which means the Force of Body tomes do nothing whatsoever (barring circumstances like offtanking and getting a flying kick via riposte) except in solo/box situations where you might use the lifetap combo and get 3-5 DPS from the tomes.

Having two class tomes and one of them doing essentially nothing sucks.
 
Can the Tomes be reworked to add bonuses to the Combo effects?
Since because of combos Flying kick is no longer spammed

Each tome adds 5,10, and 15% effectiveness of all combo effects?

Eagle base/15%
Slot 1: Stun (6.00 seconds) / 6.9 seconds
Slot 2: Decrease Hitpoints by 200 / 230

Seven Sided stomp
Slot 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 500 / 575

Though I'm not 100% sure on where monk's dps comes from.
 
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