Feeling bad about been a mage?

R

Ryei

Dalayan Beginner
to start, im sorry if it wasnt to be posted here, but i tryed to make a post on sod balancing discussion but looks like only wiz can post there, anyways, if its the wrong place, move it for me? Thanks.

Does anyone else feel bad about been a mage? i mean, there is not much a mage can do, we can CoTH every 10 mins (nerfed hard), we can give DS (if its not relic ds, druids DS > Ours, if doesnt need the FR resists).

We are most likely the modrod bitchs on raids, because if you really need any summons, just bot your gimp mage, summon your food/searfire/drinks/dots/hasterings, and log him off, and go play your mains.

We are only usefull when there is another 3 wizards at raid, because since there cant be a 4th wizard, they get a mage, for additional dps... and thats barely dps compareted to wizards, since most mobs rampage/enrage/ae and everything else, so, our pet dps gets killed in no time, most of the times. and pet dps is not that good either.

What im trying to say here is, why wizards get all the good hot stuff, and mages get gimp stuff? on live i remember wizards were not that far best dps then mages... of course wizards has to give more dps, thats what they here for, but i think mages could give a few more dmg... because seen a wizard critc for 13k+ dmg, and you only doing around 4-5kdmg, thats sad IMO. EDIT ADD: if you look into mages AA's , and wizards AA's, you will see a huge diference there too, we get very few good AA's, while wizards... omg... best AA's in game probably.

Well, sorry about all this bitching, but i talked to many mages in game, and they all made a wizard or another altern, and their mage are now mostlikely forgotten. They use it for Summon their stuff, and /q him, and log the main in.

Hope thats not what mages were made for, im still there, hanging around, but im really tempted in creating a wizard right now...

I'd like some coments here, and im sorry if there is another post like that somewhere, i just couldnt find.

PS:. sorry for the bad english, english is not my main language.
 
Ryei said:
if you look into mages AA's , and wizards AA's, you will see a huge diference there too, we get very few good AA's, while wizards... omg... best AA's in game probably.

opinions may vary on this topic.

Well, sorry about all this bitching, but i talked to many mages in game, and they all made a wizard or another altern, and their mage are now mostlikely forgotten. They use it for Summon their stuff, and /q him, and log the main in.
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best AAs in the game? opinions may vary. who are all those mages that are wizards nowadays - i don't know a single one.

increasing mage nuke dps in order to "balance" them against raid mobs might look like a good idea, but how would you justify that dps increase in an exp group situation where your pet and overall mage dps is - imo - perfectly fine - i can already hear the wizard community crying ;)
there will always be classes that can solo better than others, there will always be classes that have an edge on raids over other classes. there can't be a perfect balance in an mmo as long as you want class variety. of course, this is just my opinion.

/wave
Kranich
 
havn't used my 20 mage in a raid yet, but as far as grouping and soloing it owns! I can go into a group and most the time pull very efficiently and quick with my nukes and earth pet. IMO they are good as they are but the AAs may need some changes; i looked at them and they mostly all seem pretty crappy.
 
I have also heard quite some complaining from high level mages, and they said they'd post about it (but didn't!), so I didn't - especially since I now use my mage as you said - as a peridot machine.

Mala, malosini - great, but it probably won't kill a raid without mage, the shaman will do it (malo being even stronger debuff than mala, so they'll probably stick malosini easier on mob).

Pet - ~90 dps: solid unless it dies or no melees are allowed for whatever reason. (with all AAs, buffs and comp str 6+). Another annoying thing is that every time pet dies you'll want it buffed with at least +attack buffs if not aego as well.

Pet heal: healing for 1.5k during day every 20 seconds is really really low. Be it in group or on raid, it's pretty rare to see someone paying attention to a wounded pet. Especially because it's more important to keep the tanks and "real" dps alive.

Mod rods - useful thing, but you can also live without them. Mana potions and mana giving clicky items are pretty handy.

Mage AAs - I'd say most of them are pretty handy. Pet AAs are a must, so are all "usual" caster AAs. That's already ~150 very useful AAs. I'm not sorry for any AA taken on my mage, even thought I'd like to see air elemental form getting rid of levitate since most mages would probably use it for resists (at least on raids) and levitate is disallowed in many raid zones.

Rains - awesome source of damage, but less useful when an encounter summons adds, etc. Not only they wake mesmerized mobs, if you happen to unluckily land a wave of rain on newly spawned mob before anyone else gets aggro on them, you're as good as dead.

Nukes - until archaic nuke, our relic magic nuke is the only really useful one.

I think that's the problem - mages are too strictly specialized in magic damage - at least from my experience the majority of raid mobs (at least till our tier) show as the most resistant to magic (bard jayla's insight). Of course enchanters cast tash, but that and malosini (if you manage to land it over malo) are often still not enough to be good enough dps. Chain casting a nuke without any rain inbetween could cause aggro problems since mages get no aggro reduction spells.
There are a few raid mobs that are probably a nightmare for any mage, especially Gishna in Sepulcher. Pet not advisable, practically immune to magic based spells (could never even land malosini over malo, after tash, also more than half fire nukes got resisted with ~400 charisma = ~330 with hidden str).

Comparing my mage's dps with my druid's (links to fomelos in signature) - the major difference was pet. Using same dmg inc item the druid relic nuke does slightly more damage than mage for only 20 mana more (and there a quite a few items in game, from worn focus effects to clickies from tmap rings that increase fire/cold damage).
Druids also get 3 types of damage (fire, ice, magic - dot and outdoor only nuke/stun plus some lower level rains/AEs).
I find the druid damage ok, since it's less mana efficient and they get no aggro reducing AAs (yes, my druid gets to tank if she nukes), but mages really could use some more focus effects that increase only magic damage or use cold damage as well. Preferrably not only mage-useable since they'd rot soon. Even though I'm more in favor of the above mentioned fire based rain.

What I'd like to see is - a better resist adjustment on our magic nukes/rains (after all wizards get lures and necros have a whole bunch of types of damage to make up for the mobs resisting a few types more than the other - I think a better resist adjust would be in place).
Perhaps add an effect "share aggro" on Elemental mastery AA - it lowers your aggro (for example, at chain nuking) and shares it with pet.
Fire based rain - make it level 65 if need be, pre-archaic nuke (which most mages won't see for a long time) fire damage is minor.
Make pets awesome aux tanks - a special modification to (mage) pet aux tanking, increasing their ac would probably be too powerful for groups.
Better pet heal or add healing increment to one of the already existing AAs - as mentioned before, 1.5k on AEing/whirlwinding/etc mobs every 20 seconds can't keep a pet alive, even if it has 10k hp fully relic buffed /AAd.

Other than that I don't really have any better suggestions since I haven't played the mage in months.

And I agree with Kranich than mages are better in groups than on raids. Simply because of the fact mobs don't resist as much.

Edit: Pre pet-fix the mages sounded way more appealing. The superhero pet made up for less magic damage.
 
I have a 65 mage and our dps isn't all that.(without relic blast /rain/ pet) I would love to see some kind of increment in our dps. (without relics)
 
The balance problem with mages is that they are generally good but are especially good at nothing. When you have 18 slots, you want 18 people that are very good at specific things. You want a warrior main tanking, you want a cleric main healing, you want a shaman slowing etc etc etc.

It is give and take. Mages are good in general, but in the specific it can be a bit rough. (Tink has great ideas there BTW)

**EDIT**
I would add one more idea. What if mages had some nukes etc that only worked if they had no pet? Would that compensate for the fights where they couldnt use a pet perhaps?
 
I've told multiple magicians that if they want their issues addressed, they should post suggestions on how to improve the class, parses on mage vs wizard dps and other relevant data i can work with, not vague stuff like "MAH MAGE SI JUST A MOD ROD".

Apparently noone cares enough to take an hour to parse.

Tink has some good ideas but they should be in an S&R thread, not here.
 
tinkaa said:
I have also heard quite some complaining from high level mages, and they said they'd post about it (but didn't!), so I didn't - especially since I now use my mage as you said - as a peridot machine.

Mala, malosini - great, but it probably won't kill a raid without mage, the shaman will do it (malo being even stronger debuff than mala, so they'll probably stick malosini easier on mob).

Pet - ~90 dps: solid unless it dies or no melees are allowed for whatever reason. (with all AAs, buffs and comp str 6+). Another annoying thing is that every time pet dies you'll want it buffed with at least +attack buffs if not aego as well.

Pet heal: healing for 1.5k during day every 20 seconds is really really low. Be it in group or on raid, it's pretty rare to see someone paying attention to a wounded pet. Especially because it's more important to keep the tanks and "real" dps alive.

Mod rods - useful thing, but you can also live without them. Mana potions and mana giving clicky items are pretty handy.

Mage AAs - I'd say most of them are pretty handy. Pet AAs are a must, so are all "usual" caster AAs. That's already ~150 very useful AAs. I'm not sorry for any AA taken on my mage, even thought I'd like to see air elemental form getting rid of levitate since most mages would probably use it for resists (at least on raids) and levitate is disallowed in many raid zones.

Rains - awesome source of damage, but less useful when an encounter summons adds, etc. Not only they wake mesmerized mobs, if you happen to unluckily land a wave of rain on newly spawned mob before anyone else gets aggro on them, you're as good as dead.

Nukes - until archaic nuke, our relic magic nuke is the only really useful one.

I think that's the problem - mages are too strictly specialized in magic damage - at least from my experience the majority of raid mobs (at least till our tier) show as the most resistant to magic (bard jayla's insight). Of course enchanters cast tash, but that and malosini (if you manage to land it over malo) are often still not enough to be good enough dps. Chain casting a nuke without any rain inbetween could cause aggro problems since mages get no aggro reduction spells.
There are a few raid mobs that are probably a nightmare for any mage, especially Gishna in Sepulcher. Pet not advisable, practically immune to magic based spells (could never even land malosini over malo, after tash, also more than half fire nukes got resisted with ~400 charisma = ~330 with hidden str).

Comparing my mage's dps with my druid's (links to fomelos in signature) - the major difference was pet. Using same dmg inc item the druid relic nuke does slightly more damage than mage for only 20 mana more (and there a quite a few items in game, from worn focus effects to clickies from tmap rings that increase fire/cold damage).
Druids also get 3 types of damage (fire, ice, magic - dot and outdoor only nuke/stun plus some lower level rains/AEs).
I find the druid damage ok, since it's less mana efficient and they get no aggro reducing AAs (yes, my druid gets to tank if she nukes), but mages really could use some more focus effects that increase only magic damage or use cold damage as well. Preferrably not only mage-useable since they'd rot soon. Even though I'm more in favor of the above mentioned fire based rain.

What I'd like to see is - a better resist adjustment on our magic nukes/rains (after all wizards get lures and necros have a whole bunch of types of damage to make up for the mobs resisting a few types more than the other - I think a better resist adjust would be in place).
Perhaps add an effect "share aggro" on Elemental mastery AA - it lowers your aggro (for example, at chain nuking) and shares it with pet.
Fire based rain - make it level 65 if need be, pre-archaic nuke (which most mages won't see for a long time) fire damage is minor.
Make pets awesome aux tanks - a special modification to (mage) pet aux tanking, increasing their ac would probably be too powerful for groups.
Better pet heal or add healing increment to one of the already existing AAs - as mentioned before, 1.5k on AEing/whirlwinding/etc mobs every 20 seconds can't keep a pet alive, even if it has 10k hp fully relic buffed /AAd.

Other than that I don't really have any better suggestions since I haven't played the mage in months.

And I agree with Kranich than mages are better in groups than on raids. Simply because of the fact mobs don't resist as much.

Edit: Pre pet-fix the mages sounded way more appealing. The superhero pet made up for less magic damage.
Click to expand...

Actually still workin on that tink, been kinda busy though and it's been mostly me and a couple of chats w/rurho. Just been kinda swamped by stuff to do lately, that and rl drama
 
Sorry Wiz, as i said, i was just seeing if others agreed with me, that mages are way far behind...

And yes, Mages are ok in solo/group, altho i'd definetly would rather a Wizard/rogue then a mage on a xp group, would be better dps.

About the parsers, well, sorry i have no clue where i can get a parser. i thought 3rd party programs were ban able. thought parsers were one of them.

Its sad to see tinkas statement about druid dps , near to mage dps... lol. shouldnt be.

if anyone know where to get a parser, ou wanna help me test some numbers for wiz, im up for it. As my first post was just to see how everyone felt about the mages, didnt had much info about numbers.

And yes TInkaa, we get damn hell lot resists in raid mobs, even with Malo/Tash and 280+charisma... Wizards get those Lure's... we only get slow casting times DD that takes a year to cast, and then mob resists... (got no relics yet...)

Lets all mage get together, and think about some strategy to tell Wiz, and he can see if its viable.

Thanks for all the answers so far, and thanks Wiz for reading.
 
johnson2420 said:
havn't used my 20 mage in a raid yet, but as far as grouping and soloing it owns! I can go into a group and most the time pull very efficiently and quick with my nukes and earth pet. IMO they are good as they are but the AAs may need some changes; i looked at them and they mostly all seem pretty crappy.
Click to expand...

I think John that mages are one of the best classes to start with, since your pet does most of the job...

And even still today, most of times i let my pet tank the mob, and just heal him, because most of times i try to cast a DD on the mob, he resists it, and DD mana is higher, then the healing pet mana. So if the mob not that hard hitter, u can just sticky to the heals. (sad...)

Lets work something out :)
 
Ryei said:
Sorry Wiz, as i said, i was just seeing if others agreed with me, that mages are way far behind...

And yes, Mages are ok in solo/group, altho i'd definetly would rather a Wizard/rogue then a mage on a xp group, would be better dps.

About the parsers, well, sorry i have no clue where i can get a parser. i thought 3rd party programs were ban able. thought parsers were one of them.

Its sad to see tinkas statement about druid dps , near to mage dps... lol. shouldnt be.

if anyone know where to get a parser, ou wanna help me test some numbers for wiz, im up for it. As my first post was just to see how everyone felt about the mages, didnt had much info about numbers.

And yes TInkaa, we get damn hell lot resists in raid mobs, even with Malo/Tash and 280+charisma... Wizards get those Lure's... we only get slow casting times DD that takes a year to cast, and then mob resists... (got no relics yet...)

Lets all mage get together, and think about some strategy to tell Wiz, and he can see if its viable.

Thanks for all the answers so far, and thanks Wiz for reading.
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Resists as always depend on the mob. It is one of the points I was hoping to hit eventually but I'll save that for when I flesh out the doc I've been working on a little more. And no, you are incorrect, we get a damm fast nuke. In our regular spells. I still use it in fact for finishing something off, or for my famous drunken melee battlemage.
 
Patch, - January 22nd, by Wiz


- Pets, in particular Beastlord and Magician pets, should now be considerably better auxillary tanks.
Click to expand...

Could be interesting....

Gotta love patch messages :)
 
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