Enchanter lvl 39 to 64 Charm Spells

[JVor]

These don't make sense and need to be changed/adjusted.

Currently:

lvl 39 Cajoling Whispers (max charm lvl 46 - good, but 3 level gap to next spell)
lvl 49 Allure (max 50 - ok, but 4 level gap)
lvl 53 Buku's Bluff (max 52 - worse, below character level (ie Darkblue) and 6 level gap)
lvl 59 Shiritri's Promise (max 54 - why bother? 5 levels below (ie Darkblue but can't tell which mobs you can/can't charm below you) and 10 level gap)
lvl 60 Dictate (max 62 - 48 secs - unresistible - eh~)
lvl 64 Word of Command (max 58 - really ??? 6 levels below, 7 level gap on mobs, and nothing above just 72 sec quick charm)
lvl 64 Control (max 65 - 72 secs - unresistible - so so)

So, up to level 39, charm spells were good. Starting at level 49, charming begins to go rapidly down hill - as if chanters are no longer to charm stuff - just buff, debuff, mez...

The best overall charm spell should simply charm at character level+2 max. But, without changing everything, I would suggest the following so charming makes some sense:

Propose:

lvl 39 Cajoling Whispers (max charm lvl *48* so next level is next step in charms)
lvl 49 Allure (max *52* so next level is next step in charms)
lvl 53 Buku's Bluff (max *58* so next level is next step in charms)
lvl 59 Shiritri's Promise (max *63* so next level is next step in charms)
lvl 64 Word of Command (max *65+*? - or better, just make Shiritri's Promise 65 max, don't need this??)
lvl 60 Dictate (max 62 - *120* secs - unresistible - much more usable)
lvl 64 Control (max 65 - *120* secs - unresistible - much more usable)

This would allow "normal" charming, level by level.

 

[Tevinter]

charming things above level 58 for a long duration would require a rebalancing of most of the game. There are a metric fuckton of things you can still charm that are relevant at level 65, and even if the mobs you are actively fighting arent charmable, there are usually mobs that do pretty bangin DPS you can charm in the zone (Lashmasters, murderers, failed iksar children, beyondlings, etc etc). Control/dictate allow enchanters to charm adds/very strong monster on/for certain encounters, hence the spell is limited by short duration and by recast time.

That aside, i personally think that the rest of the charms are still fine and do not need any changes

 

[DodoBot]

With regards to highend charm spells, Tevinter is right. It would simply create too many issues to allow a super long duration charm when content is balanced to a lv 58 charm cap. That being said, for your mid level points, I think the idea of closing up the gap levels is something which could be visited... based on your list, I'd propose the following level adjustments:

• (39) Cajoling Whispers [max 46] - I would support either moving the max charmable level to 49 or changing it to 44 and adding a lv44 spell which closes the gap to Allure
  
• (49) Allure [max 50] - This is where things get tricky. Increase max level to 52.
• (53) Buku's Bluff [max 52] - Increase to 54.
  
• (59) Shiritri's Promise [max 54] - Increase to 56. Reduce spell level to 58.
  
• (64) Word of Command [max 58] - has to stay as it is without substantial rebalancing...

A few more points.

• After level 50, balance of mobs changes substantially. That's why charms no longer follow the EncLvl+2 formula anymore. I do think we could close up some of these gaps, but the mid and high level charms can't play by the same rules as lower level ones with the current content.
  
• A charm cast on a mob which is too high level will not agro it. However, there should be a way to determine a mob's charmability without casting anything. Some mobs are in the level range but immune for example. Others can be charmed but heavily mitigate it.
  • I'd like to see a clicky from a simple, mid level quest which could tell you a mob's level, class, resistance, and charmability
• Dictate and Control should be thought of more as an emergency crowd control option than a pet spell; thus, they are not being considered above this.

 

[donfolstar3]

Tev is 100% right on endgame charms, obviously.

As for the leveling charms, I think you are equating mob level to player level a bit too strictly. A level 48 enchanter with a lvl 46 mob charmed is not at any serious handicap. That said, some minor adjustments to make leveling easier is something I categorically support for any class. Even Enchanters who are a god tier class of ridiculous power.

I kind of like Dodobot's idea for a "what level is this baddie" clickie. Mid level quest yes. Simple no. Also, no info beyond level. You step on a Bard's toes you get shanked and then nuked for more damage than you'd expect.

 

[Grinkles]

A charm cast on a mob which is too high level will not agro it. However, there should be a way to determine a mob's charmability without casting anything. Some mobs are in the level range but immune for example. Others can be charmed but heavily mitigate it. I'd like to see a clicky from a simple, mid level quest which could tell you a mob's level, class, resistance, and charmability

When I submitted a dev application a year and a half ago, I envisioned creating a quest just like that. It involved talking with an ENC guildmaster who would shapeshift you into a tiny rat so you could spy on his colleagues/rivals behind locked doors in various cities; you'd hail "a hole in the wall" (invisible man near the locked house) that would teleport you inside, where you'd eavesdrop on conversations and gather intelligence. I would've made it ripe with Chaotic/Lawful shift opportunities, since those two types of shifts are really underrepresented. However, my version of the clicky reward would've been a Beguiler's Seer Stone that would list red text telling the mob's level, charmability, and mezzability.

 

[Otcho]

Hey I actually agree with op, I charmed up to like 50 and then gave up because shit became too awful and just sat around dragon necropolis until 60+ being a sweet clarity bot. Smoothing it out slightly would be nice and welcome (and add a negative resist adjust)

 

[JVor]

Well, this is MY situation. I basically play European Time Zone... I go to sleep at about 5-6 pm EDT. With so few peeps on levels <65, i solo ALOT (52 enc now waiting like 2 weeks for enough people 45-52 to get on to do Ragarati adept, then i will continue leveling - Thank God for AAs... all that exp would have been lost, i.e. explock). I have done a few lower adepts and groups but mostly solo. Starting at 50ish, it is getting harder. Maybe the charming, as is, is OK for raiding but definitely not for soloing/grouping. As I play in European TZ (only 10 peeps on today when i logged on - 1/2 probably boxed - SoD is not really European friendly that way), I can't really join guilds because I wouldn't be able to raid with them. If I can't solo, my time in SoD is going come to an end soon. Today (in /ooc), couple other people, with limited time on their hands and other reasons, also said they can't join guilds.

So... my recommendation above is for people NOT raiding - basically soloing/grouping. If SoD is just going to be for guilding (65+ & raiding) and boxing then I think that is why the server population has gone down since last time I was on (was like upwards of 200 peeps on, now like 130). Raiding is a major time commitment and some people don't like boxing (I don't - you only play the chars at like 60% of their abilities - can't really play a chanter well that way) . So, I guess I will play out my char until I can't, then go away...

 

[Tevinter]

Well, this is MY situation. I basically play European Time Zone... I go to sleep at about 5-6 pm EDT. With so few peeps on levels <65, i solo ALOT (52 enc now waiting like 2 weeks for enough people 45-52 to get on to do Ragarati adept, then i will continue leveling - Thank God for AAs... all that exp would have been lost, i.e. explock). I have done a few lower adepts and groups but mostly solo. Starting at 50ish, it is getting harder. Maybe the charming, as is, is OK for raiding but definitely not for soloing/grouping. As I play in European TZ (only 10 peeps on today when i logged on - 1/2 probably boxed - SoD is not really European friendly that way), I can't really join guilds because I wouldn't be able to raid with them. If I can't solo, my time in SoD is going come to an end soon. Today (in /ooc), couple other people, with limited time on their hands and other reasons, also said they can't join guilds.

So... my recommendation above is for people NOT raiding - basically soloing/grouping. If SoD is just going to be for guilding (65+ & raiding) and boxing then I think that is why the server population has gone down since last time I was on (was like upwards of 200 peeps on, now like 130). Raiding is a major time commitment and some people don't like boxing (I don't - you only play the chars at like 60% of their abilities - can't really play a chanter well that way) . So, I guess I will play out my char until I can't, then go away...

Personally i've never thought enchanters have had problems soloing, and are one of the stronger solo classes pre-raid gear. Maybe you are looking at soloing the wrong way? Most of the time i solo'd on Tevinter it was charming blue cons and fearing mobs after sending pet on them was the most effecient exp for me. At 52 you can most likely do this with mobs in West Plaguelands. Maybe I am misinterpreting the problem. I could get behind changing the level of the spells before the level 60+ charms, and i can get behind removing the resist adjust. On a side note, i diasagree with boxed toons only being played at 60% of ability, but thats not what this thread is about