Enchanter Charm - Classic vs Dalaya?
- Thread starter Kennit
- Start date
Only very briefly mained a chanter on live, but duration seems longer here... also no Dire charm.
Could check this by just finding chanter charms in SOD wiki and finding the same data on EQ chanter charms. Recast delay, duration, resist mods, all this stuff is fairly directly comparable.
Could check this by just finding chanter charms in SOD wiki and finding the same data on EQ chanter charms. Recast delay, duration, resist mods, all this stuff is fairly directly comparable.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Wrong.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Wrong.
What have I started? :O
So, which is it. Is charm better on Dalaya than it was in classic EQ?
I like the way charms themselves work better, but truth be told I recall Dire undead charm on my necro as being a hell of a lot of fun. I sort of lost interest in my enchanter here when I found out dire charm was gone... could have just been the fact that he was having trouble finding groups and soloing as an enchanter is pretty boring if you don't have the mana pool to do wicked charm/mez camp-breaking tactics (and he didn't have close to enough mana).
Cinn, could you elaborate? What was the problem with DC and PL?
Cinn, could you elaborate? What was the problem with DC and PL?
Cyzaine
Staff Emeritus
Direcharm lasts, in theory, forever. But the max you'll be able to stay in most zones is 45 minutes if you push it, due to the packet loss bug (which most people should be familiar with).
That and a distinct lack of appropriate level 50 mobs for charming in most zones, led us to look into an alternative AA's (AAA?) to replace it with.
Side note for those who never liked Enhanced Control, it's actually not out of the realm of possibility to have Dire Charm return someday as regular spell, rather than an AA. It would probably get just as little use that way though.
That and a distinct lack of appropriate level 50 mobs for charming in most zones, led us to look into an alternative AA's (AAA?) to replace it with.
Side note for those who never liked Enhanced Control, it's actually not out of the realm of possibility to have Dire Charm return someday as regular spell, rather than an AA. It would probably get just as little use that way though.
Is it possible to have Direcharm pets cross zones (basically make them behave as regular pets) and to prevent issues with released pets just have them suicide on release?
The lack of targets would be a problem though, certainly for druids... I don't recall seeing an animal that conned blue/lb since I was exping in heartlands. Dont think I ever cast my 55 charm spell a single time.
I don't think there'd be many tears shed if you got rid of Enhanced control and replaced it with a totally unrelated AA even.
The lack of targets would be a problem though, certainly for druids... I don't recall seeing an animal that conned blue/lb since I was exping in heartlands. Dont think I ever cast my 55 charm spell a single time.
I don't think there'd be many tears shed if you got rid of Enhanced control and replaced it with a totally unrelated AA even.
GuiardoTuneweaver
Staff Emeritus
Among potential other problems, not all models are available in all zones, so visually you'd have your pet turn into a human on zoning.
Additionally, this would make it very hard to balance content without taking into consideration all the different types of pets that could be brought in (similar to a recent issue where certain charmed pets from WITHIN a zone were used in an unintended and extremely unbalancing way).
And, since you can bring a mob from anywhere without danger (since dire charmed pets never break), people would just bring in the strongest pet available wherever they went. It would be much easier to just give the dire charm classes better real pets if you were going to do this.
Yeah, good points. Dire Charm never really struck me as an element that had balance thoroughly considered (which was maybe part of the fun of it) and I can see zone-crossing compounding that.
Another random thought... maybe make a charm AA that lasts 45mins (with a 45min recast timer), then switches to a 2min mez when broken (if possible have it switch to mez on /goaway or zoning as well)... kind of a half-assed work around to the need to refresh, but may work?
Another random thought... maybe make a charm AA that lasts 45mins (with a 45min recast timer), then switches to a 2min mez when broken (if possible have it switch to mez on /goaway or zoning as well)... kind of a half-assed work around to the need to refresh, but may work?
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Furrygamer
Dalayan Adventurer
With the system as it stands, there is no need for dire charm to be considered at all. Charm has always been more a "create risk to produce great results" type spell. I know that charm is supposedly gaining more use in the expansion. No need for a super long duration charm spell, as that defeats the balance of risk vs added dps.
On topic of classic vs dalaya: It seems the mobs ability to fight off charm and break early is a less happening event. In 49 levels of chanter (yes not 65 yet on the alt) charm didn't break often, and that was without Tash on. Maybe luck.
Would be nice to see charm be required for a fight tho (this is a side note).
On topic of classic vs dalaya: It seems the mobs ability to fight off charm and break early is a less happening event. In 49 levels of chanter (yes not 65 yet on the alt) charm didn't break often, and that was without Tash on. Maybe luck.
Would be nice to see charm be required for a fight tho (this is a side note).
It really depends on the zone and the mob. As someone who charm solo'd for a huge portion of my exp from level 58-65 I can say that the 80 tick charm spells work well except for those times when you get an early break (which in some cases means certain death). The resist adjust (+70 according to the wiki) can be circumvented by tashing, and remember to not charm summoning mobs unless you're on the ball and have at least a box or a group to pick the mob up with.
The biggest quip that I have with charm right now is with Enhanced Control, after repeatedly timing mobs that I've charmed with Word of Command (80 ticks) and Control (12 ticks) it seems that this is adding very little extra time. It seems like around 1-2 ticks for control and I don't have enough data for Word of Command because charm breaks early much more frequently. It should be more useful for 9 AA and a 1.2 hour reuse time. I don't have enough solid data yet to form some kind of appeal but I'm working on it.
The biggest quip that I have with charm right now is with Enhanced Control, after repeatedly timing mobs that I've charmed with Word of Command (80 ticks) and Control (12 ticks) it seems that this is adding very little extra time. It seems like around 1-2 ticks for control and I don't have enough data for Word of Command because charm breaks early much more frequently. It should be more useful for 9 AA and a 1.2 hour reuse time. I don't have enough solid data yet to form some kind of appeal but I'm working on it.
If there's the same chance that it could randomly break on a tick though with the 80 tick charms if enhanced control is used, I might have just had bad luck with it.
I forgot that the UI shows the old EQ reuse timers though, it says 1:12 in the AA window but it's really 30 or 45 min? I guess I've been a fool and playing as if it were 1:12.
I forgot that the UI shows the old EQ reuse timers though, it says 1:12 in the AA window but it's really 30 or 45 min? I guess I've been a fool and playing as if it were 1:12.
Furrygamer
Dalayan Adventurer
The timer in the UI is not always correct. Mana burn shows 2 hours and 24 minutes, it can be used again in 72 minutes. Half the time shown.