Drop Charges on items & Much more Nice No Drop itemization.

Monjapino

Dalayan Beginner
I'll try to explain as best as i can this system i've been thinking for years.

Firstly, i read the SoD 2.0 topic, so i know game designers and game masters have a lot of work now. But i believe this sytem is suitable to the game changes.

The main change i propose is introducing DROP CHARGES every item in SoD, it means that anytime you trade an item this one loses one of those drop charges. It should work same as charge effects on items. Besides there would be much more No Drop items dropped by mobs and as reweard of a quest.

This measure will make players to get almost every items by themselves, limit twinking & powerlevel, and you could boost on better itemization at low-mid levels so as the quests / mobs don't give enought good items they don't need to buy that good stuff needed from others player. Moreover it helps Tradeskills: Tradeskilled items would have 1 drop charge, so the item will turn to No Drop when traded from the artisan to the customer.

Main effects of this system:


- Commerce and Economy: This is the main objective of the system. I played EqLive for years and i experienced that price on items fell, although it was normal because new expansion items were better than the older ones and the price on these uses to fall, but there is another and much more important circumstance that made items price to fall: excesive number of items of the same kind in the server, when there are more ''sword of blabla'' around the price falls down so Low-Med lvl are able to buy a high-lvl item.

Anyways im not talking about making all the items no drop, because there wouldn't be any commerce and it's one of the best point of a mmorpg and lots of players like it. To balance commerce it's needed to introduce the Drop Charges system because a lot of items will stay as drop-able, but if a good drop-able item has drop charges it would not lose any value because when anyone buy it, or its traded 2 times in a case of 2 charges, it will turn no drop.

Another important effect is on tradeskills. Tradeskilled items wouldn't lose value too because when someone buys them they turn no drop, so they can't sell them to another player and recover the money, there wouldn't be excess of ''wyvernhide armor'' for example so the price on that items will be similar to their real value. It will make tradeskills a good way to get money instead of what it uses to be.

''Ok, now i can get the suitable price when i sell a tradeskilled item, supplies ..etc but what can i do with the money if most of droped items are no drop??'' There should still be a lot of drop-able items with drop charges (1,2 or 3 max).

''Ok but i used to spend money buying better items not only because i could afford it just because they were better than what i could loot from my lvl mobs''. Mobs and quests should give more and better items so you don't necessary need to buy your equipment from players, you still will be able to buy good items but you will get nice ones while questing and exping.

- Players and progression: Now Characters will progress getting the items by their own, questing or grouping in a dungeon. Items could have bonus efects at low levels (especially recovery because recovering heal being a no-healer class is a pain). Introducing more ''good'' items from regular mobs and quest will avoid low and med lvl people the need of buying good stuff from other players. Casual players will progress by doing quests, solo exping outdoors or grouping at dungeons and they will get their equipment as they do that, hardcore players could group 24/7 and do harder dungeons/adepts/quest to get ''the best'' equipment.

As i said it should stop twinking too, because this system + required lvl on items will make very hard to twink a character, although there would still be drop-able items they have drop charge so they never get ''cheap''.



Ok that's all, i you like it or it helps you building that 2.0 system. I have to emphazise the Drop Charge thing, this is the point of my idea but i don't now if you can materially introduce it in the game, i hope you can. The other thing of making more no drop items is a blunt measure that only will work if it's enclosed to more and better quality itemization.

Thanks for your attention :toot:.
 
what you just talked about is very close to what the game did with items from it later expansion a item was traded able untill you equiped it for the first time then it became nodrop. all this did was to make a market for high end items to be farmed for cash. my 2 cp is to make more items no drop from mobs and increase the power level of some player items so that they are more desirable. well that just my 2 cp. yours hason the warrior :dance:
 
oh, i played from kunark to pop so i dont know that things about later expansions. however i think its better than the common system because items price devalues and that hurts commerce and tradeskillers a lot.
 
Note that if an item has 3 drop charges, at most 1/3 of the people who wear the item actually saw it drop.
 
Could always do like they did for Legends Server and make everything droppable. Be kind of fun if the server splits.
 
Danku said:
Could always do like they did for Legends Server and make everything droppable. Be kind of fun if the server splits.

Fairly certain youre confusing the Legends Server with Firiona Vie, where all items save a few (epics, quest items, certain keys) were droppable. This was basically a disaster, largely in part to plat/items being farmed to be sold for rl cash. Although plat/items obviously wouldnt be sold for rl cash here like they were on FV, this would still lead to a lot of farming of raid mobs for the purpose of selling the loot that would otherwise rot. Its good to have raid items No Drop, as it gives the incentive for guilds who do not need the loot to move on, allowing younger guilds to have a chance.
 
I believe that some sort of "drop charges" may solve the problems once brought up concerning a balanced way to implement item degradation. Obviously it sucks to just have an item break in a game just so that we can prevent inflation in the economy. This method would actually shorten the life of a lot of items by only allowing them to pass into so many hands, similar in a sense to the way a tunic would fray or a bp would wear out. As it stands now we have our lower levels (and higher levels too) wearing 2 and 3 year old items that are virtually worthless now because thousands of those items exist being passed on from one character to another.

I don't think any item should have a single charge though. That would backfire and hurt the value of tradeskill items as much or more than it would help them. Three to five charges should suffice depending on the rarity of the item.

I think this is a good idea.
 
This by no means would solve the problem with the amount of items in the economy. It only hurts the people who buy the items and are usually too low to camp them themselves. This only gives more reason for people to camp them and sell them for increased prices, not only keeping the market full but raising the prices from what they are currently.
 
iaeolan said:
This by no means would solve the problem with the amount of items in the economy. It only hurts the people who buy the items and are usually too low to camp them themselves. This only gives more reason for people to camp them and sell them for increased prices, not only keeping the market full but raising the prices from what they are currently.

The problem it aims to solve is items losing value because too many of them are floating around, not people not being able to buy whatever drops from a mob they can't even scratch. And quite frankly, the game being designed/balanced so that you can perform well with stuff that drops from mobs you can kill at your current level, being unable to afford whatever drops from a mob that would wipe the floor with you isn't even a real problem, IMHO.

And for some reason, I've seen the farming argument come up a few times already on these boards, always followed by a few dozen posts saying people haven't experienced much if any problems with it. Is there really a plague of uber-levels running around lowbie zones, killing everything in their path to keep a monopoly on the market?
 
Items that are no drop are that way for a reason. Simply put, we don't want those items circulating past their initial owner, even once.
 
Zaos said:
I believe that some sort of "drop charges" may solve the problems once brought up concerning a balanced way to implement item degradation. Obviously it sucks to just have an item break in a game just so that we can prevent inflation in the economy. This method would actually shorten the life of a lot of items by only allowing them to pass into so many hands, similar in a sense to the way a tunic would fray or a bp would wear out. As it stands now we have our lower levels (and higher levels too) wearing 2 and 3 year old items that are virtually worthless now because thousands of those items exist being passed on from one character to another.


I don't think any item should have a single charge though. That would backfire and hurt the value of tradeskill items as much or more than it would help them. Three to five charges should suffice depending on the rarity of the item.

I think this is a good idea.

I like this idea from a roleplaying perspective, I couldn't say it better then Zaos =)
 
Oualawouzou said:
Is there really a plague of uber-levels running around lowbie zones, killing everything in their path to keep a monopoly on the market?

Mielb is mostly populated by people farming the items rather then groups there for xp.
Point being that with items eventually dropping out of the market because of being no drop, price will increase, which will give motivation to further camp the item
 
iaeolan said:
Mielb is mostly populated by people farming the items rather then groups there for xp.
Point being that with items eventually dropping out of the market because of being no drop, price will increase, which will give motivation to further camp the item


How is price increase bad? Isn't the entire point to keep deflation at a mininum so that level 20s can't buy gear that's far superior to anything they can attain in a group?
 
iaeolan said:
This by no means would solve the problem with the amount of items in the economy. It only hurts the people who buy the items and are usually too low to camp them themselves. This only gives more reason for people to camp them and sell them for increased prices, not only keeping the market full but raising the prices from what they are currently.

What you said is backwards.

I dont see how this "hurts" the people. It would help the economy by restoring value to now long-time worthless items. "Giving more reason" to farm and camp and to increase price is exactly the point... This would restore value to hundreds of items that currently go for next to nothing and make it so every level 20 didnt have items out of level 50-60 dungeons (purchased mostly under 100pp a piece).
 
I'd be interested in knowing whether or not items could be tagged and traced by trading. Could a transaction even trigger some sort of counter on an item?

I know I'll be hated for saying this, but some sort of system like this would also keep people from passing around dropable clickie items which aren't exactly intended to benefit numerous people at one time.
 
Zaos said:
I don't think any item should have a single charge though. That would backfire and hurt the value of tradeskill items as much or more than it would help them. Three to five charges should suffice depending on the rarity of the item.

I don't understand why would this sytem hurt the value of tradeskills, i think this system ''adds'' value to tradeskilled items because there wouldnt' be thousands of the same item.

However as you increase number of drop-charges you give to an item you decrease its value.


THank you for reading and posting, i hope game designers take care of this idea ;).
 
Monjapino said:
I don't understand why would this sytem hurt the value of tradeskills, i think this system ''adds'' value to tradeskilled items because there wouldnt' be thousands of the same item.

However as you increase number of drop-charges you give to an item you decrease its value.

If you can't resell an item that you will eventually replace causes it to be of less value. Part of the appeal of tradeskill items, and items in general, is that they can be resold when no longer needed. A nodrop item becomes worth nothing, but to the consumer. Tradeskill items arent the end all of equipment by any means and are easily replaced in the raid game.
 
Oualawouzou said:
The problem it aims to solve is items losing value because too many of them are floating around, not people not being able to buy whatever drops from a mob they can't even scratch.  And quite frankly, the game being designed/balanced so that you can perform well with stuff that drops from mobs you can kill at your current level, being unable to afford whatever drops from a mob that would wipe the floor with you isn't even a real problem, IMHO.

Its a bad idea. While it would solve the 'problem' there are other ways to solve it that don't end up hurting the overall game econ.

The easy way to remove a glut of items is to allow the players to turn them into coin. By providing an well above average price from a special npc vendor who only buys items... the players are much more likely to sell the item to the NPC then a lower level player (who can't afford to pay the NPC price). Then you just have to remove coin from the game in the normal manner (listsend fees, food costs, npc tradeskill parts, etc).

Another way (and probibly better overall) is to allow tradeskillers to deconstruct everything (and I do mean everything) that is equipable.
Deconstruction would be never fail, however it could give various amounts of the components dependant on a skill check.

For example, you might be able to rip that [Long Sword] down for a small chunk or 2 of ore... a trivial ripdown would give back nearly enough material to make another item. Maybe you could even allow the player to choose what type of component they would be trying to recover.... that way they could get say... a gem or metal bar from a piece of jewelry... only one or the other tho.

This would practically the removal of glutted items, since the prices would fall on them (due to the glut) and then traders would be able to purchase them cheaply and rip them down for parts. You'd end up removing alot more cash from the world as well... since bank transfers would be used more often (since ANY item would be sellable).
 
Mjay said:
Its a bad idea. While it would solve the 'problem' there are other ways to solve it that don't end up hurting the overall game econ.

The easy way to remove a glut of items is to allow the players to turn them into coin. By providing an well above average price from a special npc vendor who only buys items... the players are much more likely to sell the item to the NPC then a lower level player (who can't afford to pay the NPC price). Then you just have to remove coin from the game in the normal manner (listsend fees, food costs, npc tradeskill parts, etc).

This has been implemented and changed little. You wont see more money given for items and due to the ease of giving common items away you won't see people spend the time vending when there are always plenty of newbs to give handouts to.

Mjay said:
Another way (and probibly better overall) is to allow tradeskillers to deconstruct everything (and I do mean everything) that is equipable.
Deconstruction would be never fail, however it could give various amounts of the components dependant on a skill check.

For example, you might be able to rip that [Long Sword] down for a small chunk or 2 of ore... a trivial ripdown would give back nearly enough material to make another item. Maybe you could even allow the player to choose what type of component they would be trying to recover.... that way they could get say... a gem or metal bar from a piece of jewelry... only one or the other tho.

This would practically the removal of glutted items, since the prices would fall on them (due to the glut) and then traders would be able to purchase them cheaply and rip them down for parts. You'd end up removing alot more cash from the world as well... since bank transfers would be used more often (since ANY item would be sellable).

This is more complicated then just adding charges to items yet serves a very similar purpose.
 
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