Damage over Time idea.

S

Snake

Dalayan Elder
A big problem with dots are, that they often don't deliver their entire payload, because the target dies before the dot is done, or at times because it gets removed (like Saitha curing her self, the Golems pre Taeshlin ect.)

So this deters you from casting your dots, which make you not have a good time, especially when its your primary (only) weapon.

Here is my idea to fix it.


Dots still cost the same as they do now, but right after the spell lands, the caster gets 80% of the mana spent, back.
Then each dot tick will cost the caster, mana-spent*0.8/#ticks-the-dot-has.

This way the caster will still have the same chance of proc'ing with bracers. Will still have to have mana for the entire spell, but if the dot for some reason doesn't run its full time, the caster wont lose as much mana.



A minor positive side effect will also be that the caster can get dot ticks off while oom. Say a necro is at 1020 mana, casts R2, gets ~800 mana back after the spell lands, and quickly casts Archaic. If both dots complete, the necro will be very oom, becuase she was being taxed more mana than she had at some point near the end of the dots cycle.
It wont mean a lot in the big picture though.

An other positive side effect is when a dot is resisted. This can only happen for dots that gives a DD effect at first. These dots would then only cost 20%. Again in the big picture it wont mean anything, as you'r pretty stupid to begin with, if you'r casting dots on a target that flat out resists them.
Dots that doesnt have a DD component to them, can't be resisted, the tics can though, but that would still tax the caster.

Not really sure how to elegantly code dots like the Necro R2, or other spells that splash casts dots.


This would really make dot class a lot more free and fun, cause they wont get punished as much for casting a dot that doesn't run its entire course. More spells = more fun.
On big raid targets, it wont make any difference, but on low hp targets, it will be really nice.
 
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Nwaij said:
Sounds like an overcomplicated solution for a non-problem.
Click to expand...

Dots still cost the same as they do now, but right after the spell lands, the caster gets 80% of the mana spent, back.
Then each dot tick will cost the caster, mana-spent*0.8/#ticks-the-dot-has.

Over complicated? I guess...
 
Overcomplicated indeed:
  • How does mana conservation affect this, if at all? am I actually getting more mana back then I spent, because I didn't pay the full price to begin with? sweet deal, lemme spam this 100% resisted dot to get FM again rq!
  • Focus/Mind specialization? You mean I get EVEN MORE mana that I never spent reimbursed? AWESOME!!!
  • My dot ticked but I had swapped out my MC while that happened because OMG CLICKY TO CLICK!!! What just happened to my mana? Oh I got more mana back because I had no MC equipped when the tick happened? Awesome, unequipping manacon after dot cast forever now!
And thats the issues I could come up with in 5 minutes, I'm sure there are more. So yeah. Overcomplicated fix for a non-problem indeed.
 
The mana is calcualted same as usual.

The data is then stored in the dot, on the target.



How do you think its a non problem?

If a necro cast archaic on a target, and the target dies after doing only 1 tick, then the dot only did one fifth of what was paid for. The dot was paid in full, but only 1 tick was delivered.

This happens alot in exp groups, or on burn targets on raids, even soloing.
For example in exp groups, I may dot the off target, cause my dps needs time. Then the mob goes to attack me, and the rest of the group tries to help me, and kills it seconds. All my investment is lost.
I could also dot the main target, getting 1-3 ticks usually of 1 dot. 0-2 on the next, ect.


If by non problem you mean "well then don't cast dots, use lifetaps or dont cast at all", well then we just see things differently.

I would love to just be able to pile on dots on my target, and if for some reason it suddenlty falls over dead, well then I would like that I dont pay in full, for what I didnt get.
 
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The same thing happens for every single class that casts mana. I cast a heal on a tank, which gets beaten by some other form of healing. I can either duck it if I'm lucky, or lose my mana. Wizard casts a nuke, gets beaten by a killshot, again can either duck or loses mana. This doesn't seem feasible.

You have a class tome that returns GROUP health and mana on killshots. If a mob is at 10%, stop casting dots and quit wasting your mana.
 
the big problem for me is when you're clearing trash that doesn't live as long as most dots last, you feel like you can't contribute effectively. You can use horrifically inefficient lifetaps to do dps but it's rough. if we had a tome that said "if a target dies with one of your dots active, you get some mana based on how long it had left" it would make this less aggravating or even a "bonus" to sneak in a dot like a kill shot.
 
iBluNT said:
The same thing happens for every single class that casts mana. I cast a heal on a tank, which gets beaten by some other form of healing. I can either duck it if I'm lucky, or lose my mana. Wizard casts a nuke, gets beaten by a killshot, again can either duck or loses mana. This doesn't seem feasible.

You have a class tome that returns GROUP health and mana on killshots. If a mob is at 10%, stop casting dots and quit wasting your mana.
Click to expand...

What? Its not the same at all.

Okey, so one example is almost the same. A druid having 2 hots running on a tank that dies. Fair enough, thats the same as 2 dots. (Though a necro can stack 5+ dots.)

Healing and Nukes the same as dots? Yes your heals can get sniped, so can your DD's, but saying a split second DD is the same as a 24+ seconds damage, is pretty far fetched.
Also you have the chance of ducking your DD or heal, if you see the target dies. And the meer fact that you want to DD an almost dead target, speaks for it self, its not the same at all.

0 second duration != 24+ second duration.
 
If the target died after only one tick said target was propably at low health to begin with, so casting on it was a dubious choice to begin with. YOUR dubious choice.
If you pull aggro on a mob, someone did bad on the aggro managing minigame, either you or your tank. Eitherways, the solution here is to FD.
If you want to pile up dots on targets, that is absolutely possible, and absolutely your choice. It is a dubious choice, because it doesn't work well with the shtick of necros, wich is DoTs. (DoT stands for Damage over Time, so the very definition of this reads as "takes some time to happen". Clarified for you convenience because apparently you had a misconception here.)
If you do not want to pay the full price of mana for a spell, you might want to talk to <insert mana using DPS class here>, who also pays the full price for his spell, no matter if the spell lands at 100% mob HP or at 5hp left on the mob. The solution here is to be smart about what spell to cast when, and not to go on a balls out casting frenzie.

I know this might sound like a far fetched theory, but maybe the problem here isn't so much with the necromancer class, but with your play style, and the solution for this imaginary problem is that you evaluate your play style?

Edit: Typos.
 
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My answer was beaten. I think Defixio gave the only somewhat relevant example here for which I can only say - if you're killing low hp mobs, you're likely pulling multiples. In this situation you should probably either try to DoT the non-assisted targets preemptively so your DoT can reach its full duration and capabilities, or just DoT targets normally and try to snipe with DD spells for mana returns. Coding/approving/implementing an entire mechanic to return mana to one class because your 8 other forms of class-specific mana regen isn't already enough is silly.
 
Final fantasy 14 had this pimp spell that (summoners?) got. you would dot a mob say 4 times. then use the finisher the finisher would explode, dealing aoe damage, with a damage based on how many dots were active on the mob, so the trick was to try to catch your dots near the end of their lifespan and detonate it.

I know this isn't a thread for talking about things we like in other mmo's, but a more ACTIVE approach to managing bad dot situations would be nice. like if we had an aa button that detonated dots on a mob for some kind of benefit, could even serve an aoe function to replace the lost Heirophant's breath. and it could make necros more active (beyond keeping up 4 dots) by just sort of trying to guess when your dot is near completion. it could also be a way to attempt to achieve a strands of life kill, while at the same time focusing on the necro's intended purpose: laying dots out for leet second teir dps :)
 
Thanks.

This one was even simple to implement, and didnt change anything on longer fights, and gave the necro a chance to cast dots even on targets that would die fast, with out getting heavy punished on mana.

Also if they dot the same target twice, with the same dot, they would be less punished.

Im curious why people think its a bad idea, perhaps they fear the necro becomes to good. I don't think any rangers, wizards or enchanters and in dire straits though :)


But I guess all the active high end necro's, and necro ringers being constantly boxed in for content, speaks for it self, that they are fine :rolleyes::p;)
 
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Sorry man, the reality is it's not getting changed.

If this was Witcher 3, you couldn't call them up and have them change elements of the game you didn't agree with.

I like playing games on hard mode, just imagine that your class is hard mode. Overcome this issue. I have confidence that you will become the best raid-trash killing necromancer
 
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