crippling blows

[knowom]

I'd like to suggest the idea of adding a crippling blows spell effect to shadow knight. I think it would help promote more class duo options as well as be a nice contrast to paladins melee crippling blows and might make for some really nice undead groups or raids perhaps. Aren't spell crits are far ess common than melee crits? If so I'd be hard pressed seeing it as a big issue, but yet it would still hopefully help encourage grouping more because of the added group bonus perk of it.

 

[Pallish]

I'd like to suggest the idea of adding a crippling blows spell effect to either cleric or shadow knight. I think it would help promote more class duo options as well as be a nice contrast to paladins melee crippling blows and be the foundation to some nice undead group/raid ideas perhaps.

Cleric?! :what: that alone would get this shot down. You have divine rage and that plus yaulp 6 and summon hammer puts u near 200 dps+ (zaira, asura, gtoo( fucking gtoo syduck). Shadowknight and Pally i might see as a good idea, but, im already alittle sure that adding this aa is out of the question. Afaik adding aa's like this isnt an easy task to preform. Also Paladins preform a clensing blow not a crippling blow.

My 2cp.

 

[soba]

From what I have read from various Cleric posts the problem they post about isn't a lack of DPS it's a lack of UTILITY, giving them a "crippling blow" for spells isn't the answer for them.

For Shadowknights giving them this option would be encroaching on the territory of a Paladin which is supposed to be the tank/dps class, with the SK being tank/utility, adding "crippling spell blows" would tilt the balance because it would give them extra dps and also affect their lifetap spell line which is already balanced around not only healing the SK but also damaging the mob.

There are already many duo options to choose from, if you want a duo more heavily geared toward utility or dps there are more options available to you, Shaman/Monk being one of the more obvious combinations, the Shaman being able to slow/buff/heal/DoT for dps and the Monk (with the right gear) being a more than adequate tank along with the utility of FD pulling.

 

[Wharhogg]

Or you could choose a warrior....o wait warriors are subpar to every other class in dps and now aggro control! In exp groups I would rather have a decently equipped bst tank than a decently equipped warrior......the bst will keep better aggro through spells and actually do some dps while hes doing it! And paladins/sk's are so far superior to warriors in both aggro control and dps... they are a flat out a more functional class right now in SOD.
Exping with warriors trying to tank the past few days has really soured me.

Warriors have 1 purpose....raid tank with raid gear. And 1 per guild only.....as warriors have less utility than either their sk or paladin counter parts who also tank comparably well with raid gear.

Side note: If anyone could...I'd love to see the parses of damage taken of 2 equally equipped pal/war or sk/war on the same mob. THe warrior would have to be dw'ing to attempt to hold aggro and the sk/pal could be shield/1hnd. Have hybrid in /s 3 and war in /s 12. I bet the war takes more damage....

 

[knowom]

Cleric?! :what: that alone would get this shot down. You have divine rage and that plus yaulp 6 and summon hammer puts u near 200 dps+ (zaira, asura, gtoo( fucking gtoo syduck). Shadowknight and Pally i might see as a good idea, but, im already alittle sure that adding this aa is out of the question. Afaik adding aa's like this isnt an easy task to preform. Also Paladins preform a clensing blow not a crippling blow.

My 2cp.

I meant cleansing blow, but cleansing spell blows and for either paladin, cleric, or shadow knight. I'm not trying to complain about problems with classes I really just thought it would be nice to see a spell version of cleansing blows to go along with the melee version. Doesn't really matter to much what class gets it I just thought it should go to a class that's good against undead stuff even necromancer would work granted that wouldn't be my first choice on the matter.

 

[Syalara]

no matter what you meant, its not needed. It may be cool to have, but thats not the point.

Clerics already have tools at their disposal for dealing w/ undead, as do pallys and necros. Adding more to them or adding other abilities to other classes for shits and grins is pointless and detrimental in the long run.

Clerics can do a surprising amount of DPS when they set their minds to it, necros are off the charts, and sks should be/are about as much DPS as throwing a bag of marshmallows at a mob. This is as it should be, and its balanced accordingly.

To be honest, this whole idea seems to me like you just want abit more DPS from your duo and are not taking anything else into consideration. I could be wrong but thats what I first thought when I saw your OP.

 

[knowom]

no matter what you meant, its not needed. It may be cool to have, but thats not the point.

Clerics already have tools at their disposal for dealing w/ undead, as do pallys and necros. Adding more to them or adding other abilities to other classes for shits and grins is pointless and detrimental in the long run.

Clerics can do a surprising amount of DPS when they set their minds to it, necros are off the charts, and sks should be/are about as much DPS as throwing a bag of marshmallows at a mob. This is as it should be, and its balanced accordingly.

To be honest, this whole idea seems to me like you just want abit more DPS from your duo and are not taking anything else into consideration. I could be wrong but thats what I first thought when I saw your OP.

To be fair I was thinking of SK's more than anything when I mentioned the idea so I'm not sure what duo your really talking about, but I'll duo just about any combination going that seems at all like it would work together effectively to any decent degree.

Anyway I didn't think shadow knight would really make a terrible candidate for it since paladin all ready has cleansing blows for melee so was simply thinking why couldn't SK's get a spell version of it?

Can anyone explain why exactly was paladin worse than shadow knight w/o cleansing blows?

On live I always thought paladin and shadow knight were pretty equivalently balanced just paladins were more defensive and shadow knight was more offensive, but I realize SoD has quite a few differences from live so maybe its different here I'm not exactly sure haven't played a SK here past 10. I've heard people say paladins are dps tanks and sk's utility tanks and from the way it was on live thought it would be more the other way around so dunno.

 

[Syalara]

Can anyone explain why exactly was paladin worse than shadow knight w/o cleansing blows?

I am not sure what you mean here. Paladins were lacking in DPS and were given a boost to be above SK's in most situations. A paladin can give you a muuuuuch better answer then I could hope to about the changes from live, they are pretty significant.

Honestly, I am not too clear on how a cleansing blow can be incorporated into spells but undead specialization should not be shared with another class lightly......and see Soba's post.

As to my previous comment about the duo, sorry if I was mistaken. It was just the impression I got. I read too much into internet posts :tinfoil:

Edit-changed some names to protect the innocent.

 

[knowom]

I am not sure what you mean here. Paladins were lacking in DPS and were given a boost to be above SK's in most situations. A paladin can give you a muuuuuch better answer then I could hope to about the changes from live, they are pretty significant.

Honestly, I am not too clear on how a cleansing blow can be incorporated into spells but undead specialization should not be shared with another class lightly......and see Soba's post.

As to my previous comment about the duo, sorry if I was mistaken. It was just the impression I got. I read too much into internet posts :tinfoil:

Edit-changed some names to protect the innocent.

Was the dps boost specific to undead or all circumstances that paladin seems to do better dps than SK and what does sk have to compensate for paladin doing better dps plus having a lot of healing ability and root on top of it plus a zillion stuns? I'm just trying to figure out how or why paladin needed a boost over sk in dps department since it has a ton of healing to offset the slightly perhaps less offensive spell line up. I guess I'll have to ask the differences between the two in game when I get on next time.

 

[robopirateninja]

I have only limited experience with the two classes, but my roomate has one of each that I have played on occasion. A rough breakdown of their skills:

A shadowknight should never lose aggro on a single mob. They have massive taps, jolts, dots and debuffs that basically ensure that no mob will ever turn around and start wailing on squishies. Unfortunately until/if a shadowknight acquires Shout of Agony they have trouble with ae aggro. SKs also have a non-fail FD, which is HUGE in many situations and can make them a better puller/splitter than a monk in the correct circumstances.

Paladins are much better at ae aggro than SKs, but in general should be less effective on single mobs than an SK. However, I have never really noticed a deficiency in their single target aggro, whether or not SKs technically have "more" aggro, a paladin's is usually (always) sufficient. Paladins also have pretty nice self-heals, and their group HoTs are doubly useful, since they heal your party and also generate a large amount of aggro for the paladin.

Paladins and shadowknights also have some unique stances, but I'm not familiar with most of them. Off the top of my head, Shadowknights get their mezz stance, which can be amazingly useful by mezzing anything that hits the SK (up to level 69? iirc), while paladins get a "crit stance" which makes all their melee hits into crits until stamina is exhausted.

If I had to sum it up briefly I would classify the SK as more of a "utility" tank, while the paladin is a more "complete package" with self-included dps/heals.

 

[Pallish]

robopirateninja does a prettygood job of summing this up, in short, pallys were made to preform " better dps " because we were the redheaded stepchild of dalaya. Now as it currently sits, our tanking is significantly lower than a shadowknights, meanwhile, our dps has improved greatly which was needed. A paladins role has now became defined as a " useful " char to add to exp groups or raids. With that a Shadowknights role has also became more apparent. Their ability to tank has become more dependible and far exceeds that of a paladins.

Paladins - Cleric / Warrior - DPS, grouphealers.

Shadowknights - Necromancer / Warrior - Tank, pullers.


And so it is written and so it shall be.

 

[Hasrett]

Pallies don't have a stance that makes them crit with every hit until exhausted. They have one that increases their chance to crit, I'd estimate by about 10% (haven't parsed it). It burns endurance, but does not exhaust you.

Other than that, the previous posters have nailed it. Pallies own when it comes to multi-mob aggro, and are weaker when it comes to single target aggro (can still hold it, but it requires nearly constant spellcasting if you're tanking for, e.g., a well geared rogue who fails his evade a couple times in a row). Tanking can be a little bit of a challenge if you've got high aggro groupmates and are boxing another character who requires a lot of attention, but it's still very doable.