Combine Leather Arms

Z

Zhak Morris

Dalayan Beginner
I just completed the quest tonight for:

Combine Leather Sleeves
MAGIC ITEM NO DROP
Slot: ARMS
AC: 18
Focus Effect: Mana Conservation V
STR: +10 DEX: +8 STA: +10 CHA: +8 WIS: +10 AGI: +8 HP: +95 MANA: +95
SV FIRE: +5 SV DISEASE: +5 SV COLD: +5 SV MAGIC: +5 SV POISON: +5
Weight: 1.2 Size: Medium
Class: DRU MNK BST
Race: ALL


At a first glance the arms look very very nice, I agree. For a beastlord or a druid they are the top arms in game hands down, and by a long way at that.

However my only gripe is that for monks, the upgrade is hardly worth it.

Currently there is ONE choice for monk arms at the end game. Currently, they drop from a mob that you can kill with 4 characters.

Sleeves of Avoidance
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: ARMS
AC: 21
Skill Mod: Dodge +10%
AGI: +15 HP: +65
SV FIRE: +3 SV DISEASE: +4 SV COLD: +3 SV MAGIC: +2 SV POISON: +4
Weight: 0.6 Size: Medium
Class: RNG MNK BRD ROG
Race: ALL

At the end game, stats really don't matter ( anyone with a decent set of raid gear gets maxed stats ), and if there was a stat most important to a monk, it would be agility.

Looking at these arms completely from a monk's perspective the arms that you can attain from a mob that's killable with 4 people are 3 ac ahead and 30hp behind, and also have a 10% dodge modifier.

1ac = 3hp roughly making the Combine Arms ( attained through a series of 3 quests, involving gems rarely dropped from mobs in the prison, and although the drop rate gets better as you progress, we're talking the top mobs in the game to get anywhere with a decent drop rate ) 21hp better than the Sleeves of Avoidance. Taking in to consideration the 10% dodge modifier the Sleeves of Avoidance give you, they are probably a better item on a monk ( since we pull and take hits ).

Now we'll move on to weight. Weight on a monk is the single most important thing you have to consider when planning upgrades. The cap is 20.0 stones on a monk. To double your current slot's weight from 0.6 to 1.2 to gain a total of 21hp in terms of tanking ( the other stats really are marginal when you compare the two ) just isn't worth it at all.

What I would like to see on the Combine Leather Arms is an upgrade in AC. This would balance the item for monks without un-balancing it for druids and beastlords.
 
The conclusion I'm drawing here isn't that combine needs an upgrade, it's that avoidance needs a nerf.
 
The simple solution to this would be to delete this thread and pretend that everything is right in the world.
 
Combine Leather is on the same balance level as the rest of Combine. If an item from Yinazra blows that out of the water, the item from Yinazra is too good. It's like if she'd drop a 2hs better than Klazka - solution wouldn't be to boost Klazka but to nerf her 2hs.
 
Wiz if I may humbly beg you hold off on the nerf for a couple weeks till I get my monk up =)

Lol.. Funny thread but I got the same conclusion as you heh.

I think what the OP missed is that the sleeves arent for MNK only they are 3 class sleeves. Monks can wear them but that doesnt mean they should be the best monk gear in game.

If you take the same logic to the live servers it becomes more clear. Just because a wicked sword is easy to get in one zone on live doesnt mean that all swords in all other zones should be enhanced because they are more diff to get. (SSoY springs to mind. Hard as hell to get and although once the uber blades of the game they are now the red headed stepchild of EQ.)

I am saddend that this disparity was pointed out because olthough I am brand new to SoD and just starting my monk and would LOVE to nail a set of the monk sleeves in a few weeks I have to agree with Wiz that if a group of 4 peeps can get the best sleeves in the game for a mnk... Kinda hard to not scream nerf.

Just my 2 bit ramblings =)
Ghaks
 
Ohhhh, ok... I misunderstood the first post wiz.

When you said you were going to nerf avoidance, I thought you meant you were going to nerf monk avoidance all together ( our innate avoidance for being a monk ) and that hardly made sense to me. Nerfing the arms from yinazara is a completely fine solution.

And sorry malssor, I really don't like spending countless hours raiding to be 21hp better than someone who can call up a rl friend and go grab a pair of sleeves =(.
 
hm or alternatively, the combine arms could have been upped a little in AC or given a 5% dodge modifier to make them more attractive?

I don't see why the Sleeves of avoidance had to be nerfed when the combine arms are already wholly superior minus a few AC.

in my humble opinion applying changes retroactively is not the right way to do it. Otherwise what happens 6 months down the line when the new uberest arms come out and someone else is complaining that they're not good enough - do we then come back and nerf combine arms? and then nerf the sleeves of avoidance too and so on and so forth ?

If anything at least up the AC of the sleeves of avoidance to match that of the combine arms - its not gonna make any difference to the combine arms - anyone with half a brain can see they are still the best choice but at least those who invested time getting the sleeves of avoidance don't feel totally ripped.
 
Maybe because the sleeves of avoidance are far too easily obtained than the combine arms are? Maybe... just maybe that's the reasoning behind the nerf. Stop whining that your sleeves got nerfed a few ac and not ac, hp and perhaps the dodge modifier on it lowered.
 
gorgetrapper said:
Stop whining that your sleeves got nerfed a few ac and not ac, hp and perhaps the dodge modifier on it lowered.
Click to expand...

god im getting really tired of these brown nosers that feel the need to pop into every discussion and tell those, who take an opposite GM-stance on a change, to stop whining.



I'm not denying that it is easy to get, especially for my guild where it can be single grouped. For the majority of people it isnt but that is not the point. The point was that retroactive changes dilute the ability for characters to individualise themselves and to choose items based on relative merits. So the sleeves had higher AC than combine....they lacked the massive stats/resists and mana conservation that the combine arms did. As a monk, you would use your own judgement to decide if you wanted the greater stats or the slightly higher AC + dodge bonus. There should be no need to nerf one item to make another more attractive. The more appropriate solution would have been to up the quality of the combine arms.
 
Why would you have to up the quality on the combine arms when they are already in line with the REST of the armor set it belongs to? That's just plain stupidity.

It's like saying that, "Well since these boots are so much easier to get and have better stats than these OTHER boots which are harder to get since they are quested, by all means up the stats on the boots which are quested because they don't meet the standards of the drop boots."

The combine sleeves are part of a SET, that would have to mean that you would have to upgrade the WHOLE set to make them equal with each other. It's far easier to nerf an item that is able to be taken down with one group, or 4 characters which was stated earlier, than to increase the stats of an entire set of armor to make them equal each other.

So sorry that your choice of ONLY arms for higher end monk or whatever class you play was nerfed. OH NO IT LOST AC I'M GOING TO SLIT MY WRISTS NOW!!!
 
daimyo said:
hm or alternatively, the combine arms could have been upped a little in AC or given a 5% dodge modifier to make them more attractive?

I don't see why the Sleeves of avoidance had to be nerfed when the combine arms are already wholly superior minus a few AC.
Click to expand...

Wiz already explained why in the thread, but I'll reiterate the reason. The combine arms are balanced with other arms throughout all of the types of combine armor, as well as the leather set in its entirety. They're comparable in stats, so if a dodge mod was added to combine leather arms, you'd need to add mods to the other respective arms. Then you'd have to go look over the other pieces and add stuff to them as well because all of a sudden the arms are far superior compared to other pieces in the set.
 
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