Charm Liquidating

stope21

stope21

Dalayan Elder
I think the charm credit implementation was a great idea, as now players are far more inclined to not skip through the teirs of charms.

Unfortunately I'm not really sure why the ability to liquidate charms was removed along with this.

Heres some big issues I have so far with inability to liquidate charms:
1: Guild Charms - You can no longer liquidate charms bought by the guild should the guild disband.
2: Change of character - You can no longer recover previously farmed platinum if you buy a charm on one character, then decide you want to play something else.
3: Loans to friends - You can no longer sell their charm to repay yourself if they unexpectedly stop playing.
 
I completely agree sadly, and my main motivation is that I like to be able to change characters should I find the urge. But at that point Im never going to want to buy a charm again until I know I want to play that character forever. I want to be able to liquidate the charm to buy one for a new character I have, and I should be able to as I was the one who saved that money. Or if I wanted to give that money to a friend I should have that option, I like the idea that you put in with charm progression, but there still needs to be a side option to liquidate.
 
stope21 said:
I think the charm credit implementation was a great idea, as now players are far more inclined to not skip through the teirs of charms.

Unfortunately I'm not really sure why the ability to liquidate charms was removed along with this.

Heres some big issues I have so far with inability to liquidate charms:
1: Guild Charms - You can no longer liquidate charms bought by the guild should the guild disband.
2: Change of character - You can no longer recover previously farmed platinum if you buy a charm on one character, then decide you want to play something else.
3: Loans to friends - You can no longer sell their charm to repay yourself if they unexpectedly stop playing.
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1) Intended.
2) Intended.
3) Intended.

1) and 3) were sources of endless drama, and 2) means that a charm is now a real plat sink. These were all effects we wanted to happen, so we don't see them as problems.
 
I think 1, 2, and 3 all mean...be more careful with your money nowadays. Even though some people disagree with me (not sure how), the intended changes were made to make the charms even more of a "real" platinum sink then they already were. Before the change they only sank 20% of your investment, as you could always get liquid cash back anytime you wanted. Upping the price of charms by not having charisma or faction affect the prices, and then having a 1% restocking fee are all parts to make the platinum sink bigger. As Wiz just stated, this was the intended outcome. Think twice before buying an alt a charm (the only number I think sucks [2] because you cannot switch it back and forth between alts). Loaning money, and trusting a guild MT is something you should do research on first. If you are that worried with not being able to sell your friend's charm, then I wouldn't loan that friend money in the first place. If you think the MT might jet, or be flaky, go to a different guild, or go to a guild who owns the MT.
 
I completely agree on making it a real plat sink, but cant we do anything about making it so you can move the charm, or the liquidated funds across accounts linked to the same email address or something? It really doesnt make it a bigger plat sink, just makes me want to NOT sink my plat into a charm. In all reality, the same outcome would apply, except that instead of making 20% out of me into the plat sink, now that sink gets none. I understand the points on the others and they make sense, but in reality, most of us spend all we have into that sink, and cant put anymore at that point, nor would we unless we're at the very high end point where we can farm money like you do Felyn (not trying to rip into you there, just noting that you play more, and are able to based on where you are able to farm, make more money.)
 
I think that a lot of people forget that charms were put into place to be a platinum sink first, a way to use platinum in the high end second, and something to farm for your character third. What I am getting at here is, they are primarily just for the platinum sink. Making the sink less, or not as "harsh" doesn't seem like the route the staff wants to go. Sure, if you don't want to use your money on charms, that is fine. You can still buy items for your alts and augs for your alts and main. If you do not want to use your money at all, then you are at where most people were on Live. At least on here you can upgrade your toons with extra cash you would otherwise not spend at all. If people are less inclined to farm for their charms, then there will be less raw pp in the economy, and the charm platinum sink has worked again.
 
Before the change, charms were really just a real plat sink. Whether they were upgraded or moved, by the time someone had a charm, they were moved to other charms, not used to buy gear(generally). Thus they were a plat sink cause the econ was pretty much guaranteed to be out of the economy.
 
Retkov said:
Before the change, charms were really just a real plat sink. Whether they were upgraded or moved, by the time someone had a charm, they were moved to other charms, not used to buy gear(generally). Thus they were a plat sink cause the econ was pretty much guaranteed to be out of the economy.
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When you can instantly cash it back in for raw platinum that you can immeadiately dump back into the economy if you so choose, then it is *NOT* and true plat sink. A true plat sink means the plat is gone forever from the economy, not just probably gone from the economy.
 
Kaz, just because a lot of the pp in the game was in charms, does not mean that it could have never been liquidated. I remember a certain bard with a 500k who came back to play his rogue so he sold his charm. That put A LOT of pp into the economy. This is a true platinum sink and not a pseudo one.
 
Retkov said:
Before the change, charms were really just a real plat sink. Whether they were upgraded or moved, by the time someone had a charm, they were moved to other charms, not used to buy gear(generally). Thus they were a plat sink cause the econ was pretty much guaranteed to be out of the economy.
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Money that is able to be recovered, isn't sunk. We had this same conversation in vent last night, idk if you logged out before or what. When you can redeem your charm for 70% of the raw plat you paid for it, only 30% of that money is actually sunk into the charm and removed from the sod economy. The rest can be retrieved at a moment's notice.

Personally I would like to see the ability to get SOME raw plat back from charms, albeit at a greatly reduced rate compared to charm credit, maybe only a 50% or 60% return on investment. This is just my personal preference though, just like my distaste for BoE.
 
robopirateninja said:
Personally I would like to see the ability to get SOME raw plat back from charms, albeit at a greatly reduced rate compared to charm credit, maybe only a 50% or 60% return on investment. This is just my personal preference though, just like my distaste for BoE.
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It seems we can have the previous way as that and have people complain about low return rates or we can have the new system with higher value but no raw plat return rate.

I also would agree with tyrone pretty much. I love this new system a lot but a /cmd option of "I can offer you 'some' raw plat for this charm, or you may have store credit. Doens't sound so bad to me
 
There really needs to be an option to have at least some of the platinum returned.

I agree with Elindal on a few of the points he brought up. For starters, this whole "changing the charm for credit and no more platinum" nearly eliminates any more future warriors from the high end raid game. I'm well aware that there will still be the occasional guild or two that springs up, but for any REAL raiding guild thats been around a while, why the hell would they want to farm up ANOTHER 500+k platinum if there MT just split to join a different guild? They'd lose all incentive to work together as a team with the sour taste in their mouth from the last experience of outfitting a tank with a nice charm.

Furthermore, as Felyn said, you SHOULD be able to trust the people you loan platinum out too, and I think that was a requirement BEFORE this change came about. Just because a charm could be sold back before did it really make anyone THAT much more likely to loan a friend 50k?

The problem I have now is, a few people have offered to lend me the plat to get my charm, but I've rejected all of them because to be honest, I don't know where life will lead me tomorrow. I don't know if I'll get a job where I can't play SOD anymore, if my computer's decide to die, or god forbid if I die =p
With that being said, I'd feel pretty awful about leaving the game after someone just made a massive loan to me. Yes, it's just a game, but it's someone elses time too, and I would feel pretty awful to have lost/wasted that much of that persons time by not being able to repay them. At least if we knew we could get 50% back from reselling, people would be willing to donate that much towards other peoples charms.
 
Trust And Fall said:
There really needs to be an option to have at least some of the platinum returned.

I agree with Elindal on a few of the points he brought up. For starters, this whole "changing the charm for credit and no more platinum" nearly eliminates any more future warriors from the high end raid game. I'm well aware that there will still be the occasional guild or two that springs up, but for any REAL raiding guild thats been around a while, why the hell would they want to farm up ANOTHER 500+k platinum if there MT just split to join a different guild? They'd lose all incentive to work together as a team with the sour taste in their mouth from the last experience of outfitting a tank with a nice charm.
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I think that guild will still get charms for their MT's as needed, and there is currently no rule that says if you give them the PP for a charm and they split from your guild that they have to pay it back. We are not the collection agency of SoD as is.

Trust And Fall said:
The problem I have now is, a few people have offered to lend me the plat to get my charm, but I've rejected all of them because to be honest, I don't know where life will lead me tomorrow. I don't know if I'll get a job where I can't play SOD anymore, if my computer's decide to die, or god forbid if I die =p
With that being said, I'd feel pretty awful about leaving the game after someone just made a massive loan to me. Yes, it's just a game, but it's someone elses time too, and I would feel pretty awful to have lost/wasted that much of that persons time by not being able to repay them. At least if we knew we could get 50% back from reselling, people would be willing to donate that much towards other peoples charms.
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Cool, then don't borrow money. This is not a reason to have charms not be a true plat sink.
 
Trust And Fall said:
I agree with Elindal on a few of the points he brought up. For starters, this whole "changing the charm for credit and no more platinum" nearly eliminates any more future warriors from the high end raid game. I'm well aware that there will still be the occasional guild or two that springs up, but for any REAL raiding guild thats been around a while, why the hell would they want to farm up ANOTHER 500+k platinum if there MT just split to join a different guild? They'd lose all incentive to work together as a team with the sour taste in their mouth from the last experience of outfitting a tank with a nice charm.
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Well tbh, many already feel backgearing future warriors is already way too much work. The MT mostly has the best gear of all the guild and rightly so. Gearing up another would have the new MT either lacking or the gear would have to pass over those other members that want it all over again.
 
Trust And Fall said:
There really needs to be an option to have at least some of the platinum returned.
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This virtually guaranteed to not happen. If problems exist, we'll resolve them in different ways. We're extremely unlikely to unsink the plat from charms.
 
Tempus said:
I think that guild will still get charms for their MT's as needed, and there is currently no rule that says if you give them the PP for a charm and they split from your guild that they have to pay it back. We are not the collection agency of SoD as is.
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Thats not entirely the point. There is so much access sharing with SoD its completely asinine for a guild to raise money to buy a tank a charm when they can just recycle an old guild's MT.

However, I just think it was stupid in the beginning for guilds to put money together for a tank's charm, when the player them self should be farming to get their own charm.
 
I don't see a problem with this at all. I like the idea of it becomming a plat sink (like intended.)

When we farmed for the MT's charm for Amicii everyone pitched in. It saved us literally months and months of time waiting for a warrior to farm his own PP. I kinda like the idea personally sense he has the option to upgrade it later. We are also currently farming for our main monks charm. I'm more then happy to help donate my PP and time to make his happen for him. Especially If it means he can have it and benefit from it much sooner instead farming all the PP by himself. When the time comes we'll all pitch in upgrade his as well. I'm doing this to help them and the guild itself. I'm not going to be sending thugs to their houses to get my PP back. I'm not interested in that. I'm just interested in helping out people I consider friends. Maybe someday I might get help on my charm. :)

Moral of this story..

If you're guilded with really great people who are friends why worry about retarded stuff like PP anyways? If your worried someones going to bail then simply don't offer your time and PP it's just that simple.
 
*holds back tears of pride at Thors speach* :toot:

... what he didn't tell you was Cilulizi is black mailing all of us into farming his PP for his charm :(




All said I like the new system for the Charms, as it helps people get better charms faster and keeps it a true plat sink. Yeah it much be problematic for people that like switching toons alike but that just means buy cheaper charms for each of them until your really sure which will be your primary.
 
I wouldn't go as far as saying people will get charms "faster", but it does allow for people to "progress" through all of the charms one by one. The fact that cha and faction (bards only iirc) no longer affect charm prices make the prices go up quite a bit (especially for the 500k and 1mill), so I definitely would not say faster. The fact that you don't have to worry about "wasting" money by upgrading later, is a very nice addition, however.
 
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