Cha on tank gear

B

Blubuds

Dalayan Beginner
Ok alot of you are going to bash this right off the bat ... but please fomelo uzzdaar has a ton of hps and AC .. but there is very few items with any cha on them.

If you Fomelo the pallys that are magic Casters and yes thats how we hold agro. Uzzdaar has 165 Cha, Vartenaal 144 cha, Balthor 163..

Basicly our Cha sucks and i'm sure it's the same for SK's
Cvetkaa has 229 cha (manly tanks to charm) Jose 168 cha, Volkov 177cha

My point I guess is I had higher Cha when I was lower tiered because of more classes on the gear.(again assumption that other classes on it is why they had the cha) As you go high end the Tank Stuff lacks Cha. since we cast for our agro make it harder to control them when they resist. Quite frankly I found some mobs in Misery that I can't hold agro on no matter what I do they resist everything, ( I assume that because of CHA).

So my request is simple add some cha to items that we use in high end game.
I don't see how this would make anything over powered it's not going to make us take less dmg, or effect that in anyway. Just simply let us land spells more often that is needed to getting some of the high end events.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 
This has already been discussed. I believe there are already several tank pieces with substantial amounts of charisma on them. Look at Felyn's Fomelo for examples. More specifically, both my bracers, my neck, my boots, my right ring, and my legs. There is charisma gear out there that tanks can use, you just have to look for it and go for that gear if you want it.

Edit: More cha gear...

Finster right ear, left ring, boots, sword, shield, left bracer and arms.

Adamantite Facemask and several pieces of Thaz gear for hybrids have charisma.

The gear IS out there.
 
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Spiritplx said:
There is charisma gear out there that tanks can use, you just have to look for it and go for that gear if you want it.
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I think this sums it up nicely. You can add a 5cha aug to any piece of armor that you want. Basically you are just asking to have cha slapped onto tank gear without having to make any trade-off for it. If your charisma is so low that you can't hold agro then that extra 5ac aug isn't doing you much good anyways.
 
While I agree the OP could have come up with a better solution to his problem (the cha augs), I think the general point is valid. CHA seems to be overlooked on much of the higher end "tank" gear.

As a couple of examples, out of the "tank gear" on Felyn's fomelo (I'm defining tank gear as usable by more than one of WAR PAL SHD, but not ALL/ALL):

Overall pieces of Tank Gear: 12
Pieces with CHA: 5
Pieces with STR: 10
Pieces with STA: 9
Pieces with AGI: 10
Pieces with DEX: 8

And Gunder's gear (which is a lower tier than Felyn's):

Overall pieces of Tank Gear: 15
Pieces with CHA: 2
Pieces with STR: 14
Pieces with STA: 11
Pieces with AGI: 9
Pieces with DEX: 11

CHA is an very important stat for SHD and PAL, and moderately important for WAR given aggro spells and clickies. I think it might just have been overlooked some on the higher end tank gear. I'm not saying there should be as much of it on the gear as there is of the other stats, but I think a bit here and a bit there would be appropriate.

I doubt it'd be worth the effort going back and tweaking all the existing gear (nor a task anyone really wants to take on), but it'd be great if the item dev's could keep this in mind for new gear (like Kunark!) and when existing items are revamped.

Edit: Also interesting to note that the Juggernaut's Charm of Invincibility (the tank-oriented 200k charm) doesn't have any CHA on it, although the Supreme Charm of Valor (tank-oriented 1.2M charm) does.
 
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That point it out right there .. I have 1 item that doesn't have casters on it with cha thats it one.. So what you saying is if I want higher cha I have to go with lesser gear.

Also for a trade off trade off what? The rest of the non tank classes get cha so they can land spells on raid mobs. We can ware some of the gear but not alot of it as we want the Ac most of all. So trading out AC for Cha would be counter productive. If tanks must give up a little something I don't think anyone would cry or bitch if we lost a little dex to trade it for cha.

And the reason I brought this up is I cast 16 spells on a Mob in misery.. yeah Missery like 7 teirs below. And every single one even AA stun was resisted. Yes some mobs have high MR. But to the point of that, meaning someone ToT geared can't hold agro in misery. Something is wrong there.

But what I don't' understand is I had more Cha with lower teired gear .. alot of the stuff from prison has Cha on it, Stuff from Air has Cha on it, only tank thing in tot with Cha is the shield.(that I have seen so far) yeah so I don't get it.


Going back to asking for it to just be added with no trade off. I'm not asking for it on everything hell even adding 5 cha would help.(it would add up fast, i'm not asking for it on everything but give more options that would include it) Balance wise I don't see an issue at all. Every Class can max there sta that is a Tank stat, even wizzards have max sta so I really don't see why tanks can't have some cha.


The other option I see is tweaking with the resist checks of Knight spells. (this might be less work, but overall I would feel is a cheap way out) Meaning add a better - check on them. Some knight spells do already but I think this would fix the problem without having to revist alot of gear.
 
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GuiardoTuneweaver said:
Edit: Also interesting to note that the Juggernaut's Charm of Invincibility (the tank-oriented 200k charm) doesn't have any CHA on it, although the Supreme Charm of Valor (tank-oriented 1.2M charm) does.
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Also this has been brought up before. They refused to change the charms after quite a long thread will edit if I happen to run into it again.
 
It is because the Supreme charm is an upgrade to the Eternal which has Int/Wis/Cha and Eternal charms are for both melee and caster classes.
 
For knights the thing is CHA isn't as useful for SK than for Pallies, with unresistible aggros. They got to have an edge somewhere eh, with all the folks wondering why Pallies are so much better than SKs because AE aggro + very good ST aggro. Making more CHA on gears that knights can wear - I don't say "knight gear", just that both can handle - would give an even bigger edge to paladins.

That's all besides the point of you crying for just more cookies. Uzzdaar has just been dumped in the high end game and is not decked by far.
 
Spiritplx said:
It is because the Supreme charm is an upgrade to the Eternal which has Int/Wis/Cha and Eternal charms are for both melee and caster classes.
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That argument makes no sense. There are separate caster/mele charms at the 200k level, a single at the 500k level, and are separate again at the 1.2M level. One could make the same argument that the 1.2M is an upgrade to the Juggo (skipping a tier) and therefore shouldn't have CHA. The 500k charm got the CHA from the caster side, and since casters get their own charm again at the 1.2M level logic would hold that the mele version shouldn't have the CHA. They really should either both have it, or neither should have it.
 
Jumping on the this-charm-is-not-logical-bandwagon: why does the caster 1.2mil charm has critical strike on it? :psyduck:
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
That argument makes no sense. There are separate caster/mele charms at the 200k level, a single at the 500k level, and are separate again at the 1.2M level. One could make the same argument that the 1.2M is an upgrade to the Juggo (skipping a tier) and therefore shouldn't have CHA. The 500k charm got the CHA from the caster side, and since casters get their own charm again at the 1.2M level logic would hold that the mele version shouldn't have the CHA. They really should either both have it, or neither should have it.
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Now, that argument makes no sense. If you pay 560k as opposed to 225k, you should get a little extra (int/wis/cha) for hybrids. You shouldn't then lose stats once you pay even more money to upgrade your charm again. I was simply explaining why the 1.2 has charisma on it, not why the juggo should not have charisma on it. However, that is for another thread (even though addings MORE things to charms is usually shot down quickly). I am fairly sure using item progression to explain the reasoning behind which items have which stats does indeed make sense, and you can say it doesn't all you want because you disagree, but it doesn't make my logic flawed (even though you really want it to be).

Edit: It is way easier to argue "up" meaning that if the lower charm has something, the higher one should to, but you want to argue "down" saying that if the higher one has it, the lower one should too. And that, is what makes absolutely no sense at all.
 
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I still disagree with your "logic", but lets run with it.

The 100k tank Charm of the Barrier has 12 CHA on it, therefore you shouldn't lose it when you upgrade to the 200k Juggo.
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
I still disagree with your "logic", but lets run with it.

The 100k tank Charm of the Barrier has 12 CHA on it, therefore you shouldn't lose it when you upgrade to the 200k Juggo.
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This I didn't know since I never got one. Then that argument should be the one used to retain charisma on the juggo.
 
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Zaela said:
(That unavoidable counter-point)

My Charm of Vanity had CHA on it, but my Charm of Shojar has none (and I'd lose 15 agi upgrading to Diabloic Charm!). Ranger/Rogue X's bigger archery/backstab charm has a skill mod but none of the upgrades do. Juggo Charm has 10% stun resist but Eternal only has 5%!

All the arguments about consistency between charms and their upgrades is kind of moot since they aren't even trying to be especially consistent all-stats+1 type upgrades in the first place. If someone wants to argue that charms follow a logical structure more consistent than the one they actually do, and therefore no upgrades should lose any stats whatsoever, they are free to, but I think that's for another thread.
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I agree 100% with this.

Back on topic, I do believe there are several key pieces that can be gotten by tanks and hybrids alike that have a fair amount of charisma on them. I have already pointed out a fair amount, and I am not going to go through and find all of them. Not all gear should be catered to everyone for every situation. That is why you have to choose your gear accordingly to either what you want, or what situations you are in the most (kind of like how we choose our augs). I honestly do not think more charisma should be added just because it is missing on some pieces.
 
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