CH nerf?

[Yvin]

As I see it, the problem with the patch is that it is mono-focused. What I mean... it was put into place for the principle reason of requiring a *single* player to achieve a certain level of sucess in order for a raid to work (ala Coltaine or Khalid). On live, because of the way defensive worked, you needed 3 or 4 similarly equipped tanks, and you had to switch aggro several times during a fight, which was always interesting. WR end game is simply much higher dps and much shorter fights. Most of the time, you need only 1 tank.

I don't think a guild should be built around a single person. If that person quits, doesn't log on, etc, the guild suffers and/or cannot raid anything. Also, all uber gear must first go to that tank, instead of other classes.

Problem: if you build an endgame based upon the requirements of a 5 cle chain and a single uber tank, once that tank reaches a certain level, all older content will be absurdly trivial (because of the lack of hps on current mobs).

Possible solution: Increased hp, lowered dps for end-game mobs. This is a must for the 2 second chain to work, unless you want to see zerg shaman/dru in the future. At this point, with upper-tier dps still pretty insane, you will need a druid chain in between the cleric chain. One a guild gets enough druids, you are back to the situation of before. Do you then nerf dru heals?

Wiz, everything is designed to block a Tarhyl fight. If you want to block it, key the zone, put 65 level limit, etc. There are alternate methods of slow down besides an entire restructuring of the way raids work (not that I particularly enjoy these other alternatives). But, this brings me to my next point...

Here is what is most frustration. Wiz, you seem to have an arbitrary idea in your head of when high-end content should be beaten. There are currently at least 6 high-end unbeaten zones. Typically, when that content has been defeated, or close to defeated, then instead of nerfing the way in which is was overcome, Verant creates an expansion. Wiz, you're great about designing new content. I would 100% rather vanquish the current zones and move on to something new, than spend another 6 months in TOV. Attempting the same thing over and over gets old. When I hear the TOT music, I shudder and have flashbacks of Trial 3.

In chess, there is a tactic called 'prophylaxis' where you make a move designed to defeat an opponent's move before he makes it. This CH change is essentially a prophylactic move. You are guarding against a 20 cle CH change before it becomes a reality (or even close to a reality). Truth be told, finding 20 clerics (approx. a 55-60 raid force) is much harder than outfitting a single tank. Guilds will have all there clerics and sk's in fine steel, while the sole possible tank will recieve all the items necessary to advance. The most clerics I've ever seen on a raid is 9. From where is this mythical 20 clerics going to come?? Colt's dreams??

I understand the distaste for the CH zerg. I hate it myself. But there are alternative tactics to defeat it besides timing limitations (mob adjustments, raid limits, keys, level limits, creative fights, ala Ring Events, many simultaneous mobs, etc), because once that tank has the ability to tank the end-game, he suddenly trivializes everything because of the lesser amount of healers needed. Or, conversely, raids will simply replace the cleric zerg with sham/dru zerg. Or, and this is why I resist this change, the end tier zones will remain unbeaten as they have remained ever since they were designed. If gods and boss dragons aren't being slain soon, what has been the point of playing for over a year now? If you want to keep distancing us from winning certain fights, it seems like its only an issue of your pride, not server health, which is inhibiting our progress.

-Y/y

 

[Wiz]

Because dragons aren't being killed at all.

Except for Aanshlav, Rizhal, Za, Cillzaia, Nartalzia, Visherilla, rite.

Tarhyl is a one-shot mob. I expect him to be close to unbeatable. And yes, I'm taking a future thing into measure, because I have a thing called pattern recogition, and the high end game was becoming a matter of how many clerics you had, not how big mana pools or how much DPS.

 

[Yvin]

On live, TOV took about 3 weeks to learn. After that, it took 7 hours to clear. We've been working on TOV for 8 months and have completed about half. It... gets...old.

The sense of progress was finally returning (after it took 4 months to catch up to where we were before the last big retuning), and now, there is another time of raid redefinition. We acheive some success, both gotw and ruin, and bam, CH is changed. This seems like direct retalitation against winning, as if you don't want anyone to win anything, as if it's only a matter of ego.

If, and this is a big if, you do in fact retune nearly *every* uber mob, then, the patch will work. If not, then this server has become a hopeless struggle against your will.

Every time we reach within striking distance of defeating a zone, it seems you simply widen that distance. How can we help but feel frustrated? This was the same sort of tactic that made me quit live. Verant seemed to be against the playerbase, not for it. It became a battle of pride, not a battle of humanity versus computer content.

This is the heart of my complaint: it seems you are much more interested in seeing us struggle, than seeing us suceed.

If you want battles to me like live, battles of attrition, mana-management, and dps, you must implement the necessary changes in every encounter towards that end. I personally would rather see a comprimise between the two methods than 55 minute fights. Anyway, if the mob adjustments are forthcoming, then many of my arguments are moot.

 

[Wiz]

On live, TOV took about 3 weeks to learn. After that, it took 7 hours to clear. We've been working on TOV for 8 months and have completed about half. It... gets...old.

The sense of progress was finally returning (after it took 4 months to catch up to where we were before the last big retuning), and now, there is another time of raid redefinition. We acheive some success, both gotw and ruin, and bam, CH is changed. This seems like direct retalitation against winning, as if you don't want anyone to win anything, as if it's only a matter of ego.

If, and this is a big if, you do in fact retune nearly *every* uber mob, then, the patch will work. If not, then this server has become a hopeless struggle against your will.

Every time we reach within striking distance of defeating a zone, it seems you simply widen that distance. How can we help but feel frustrated? This was the same sort of tactic that made me quit live. Verant seemed to be against the playerbase, not for it. It became a battle of pride, not a battle of humanity versus computer content.

This is the heart of my complaint: it seems you are much more interested in seeing us struggle, than seeing us suceed.

If you want battles to me like live, battles of attrition, mana-management, and dps, you must implement the necessary changes in every encounter towards that end. I personally would rather see a comprimise between the two methods than 55 minute fights. Anyway, if the mob adjustments are forthcoming, then many of my arguments are moot.

What exactly do you think I'm doing? I'm changing fights to be longer, more about mana management and gear, less about zerging. It's not like CH change is a major hard-hitter in terms of nerfing. But anyways, I know your attitude in general, so I'm not going to bother.

NToV took 3 weeks to learn on live because people would spend entire weekends raiding it and not focus on anything else. GoTW goes there once a month and kills 2-3 dragons. It seems like we have a new master of spin doctoring.