Catacombs Repops

[Mean Gorilla]

Ok...so a few guildies and myself decided to take on Tarilisha in catacombs. We had been clearing for a couple of hours when we were finally outside Tarilisha's room. Unfortunately, this being my first attempt on Tarilisha, I wasn't prepared for her silence to stop my auto attack thus making me lose aggro to my cleric. After the wipe, we were left with a bad taste in our mouths as we were strictly going for Tarlisha and now the entire zone is repopped thus making us decide whether to waste 2 more hours clearing to her for another attempt or packing our bags. What I'd like to know is if there is any chance you guys might consider changing the repop timers on mobs in the catacombs to the same as cmal? Thus allowing groups to pick up where they were if they happen to wipe.

 

[Jinxat]

I dont know, I kind of liked the way that you need to kill fast in catacombs, especially as you get closer to tarlisha. The fact that the respawns can hurt you add an extra factor to the equation, and the first time you get tarlisha down is a pretty good feeling. I dont think respawns should be changed personally, because its all part of the difficulty of the zone, and tarlisha is a fairly simple fight once you get it controlled. Since she drops eldritch scrolls, some very nice loot (two pieces) and the fight isnt too difficult in itself, I would say that making the respawn longer would take away too much from the encounter.

 

[diolas]

I think there are a few issues with catacombs since several changes have been made on the server.

The amount of MR you need to tank any of the nameds (excluding the spider)is sick. At 300+ MR I was still getting mezzed quite regularly by all the vampires. To even get that high I've got to swap in all my resist gear; should a bard really be necessary?

The third named (name eludes me atm) comes with 2 adds. An offtank is doable for all the other encounters but for that fight your basically saying "Mez or Bust". How about sticking to one add? Having to tailor parties for specific encounters shouldn't be an absolute necessity.

Risk vs. Reward
Let's face it, the zone is tough. In order to even kill the first named your healers are going to need deep mana pools as it's a fight of endurance rather than dps. I was in there with (again, not an ideal group) war, enc, wiz, cler, nec, shm; all with a good amount of AA's and deep mana pools. At the end of the fight everyone was pretty much oom. It sucks that in order to get to that level you have to have gear that surpasses what gets dropped. The only time anyone seems to actually get an upgrade from that particular fight is if they're brought in for the sole purpose of it (5 very strong chars and one weaker). A challenge I like, but I also like rewards. The rest of the nameds are a bit better in this regard but have their own issues (see above).

Catacombs should be a great zone, but it isn't. Is it any coincidence that cmal is always full and catacombs is always empty? This zone definitely needs some looking at.

 

[Haphesto]

A chance at the 200 mana robe from Janir, and relics from Tarlisha make cata worth the time for any pre-IP group that knows what it's doing.

It sucks that in order to get to that level you have to have gear that surpasses what gets dropped.

I'll agree with you here. The only groups I see doing cata have gear leaps and bounds above what drops there. Whether that is because of ignorance or stats I'm not sure.

 

[Manluas]

Umm....I have been in Catacombs a few times and I think I never got to a named mob because we simply didn't try. Thus far the zone hasn't great drops, I agree here but on the other hand it's one of the best XP-zones in the highend game (Only Cmal 3+, deeper FR and one-grouping yellow trash yields more XP at least that's what I recall from top of my head) and to be honest I think that is reward enough for a fun and somewhat challenging zone to fight.

Experience is a reward too IMO.

 

[Kisuo]

there are great drops in this zone, including one of the best melee rings in the game.

 

[Jinxat]

there are great drops in this zone, including one of the best melee rings in the game.

There are some great, drops, yes. The majority of drops, however, arent that great, especially with regards to the gear you need to have by the time that you can do the encounters.

 

[iaeolan]

Part of the challenge (and I expect the zone mod) is this fast repop which in turn contributes to the fun and fast xp of the zone.

I'm sure noone complained about the xp gained otw to tarlisha. Just fix what you did wrong and go back another day

 

[hooden]

I would like to throw my 2 cents in to this thread. I was in this particular group, and I have been in Catacombs a few times now.

One thing that sticks out most clearly to me is that people report that Tarlisha drops incredibly good items. This would certainly change the risk vs. reward in my viewpoint, but we can only base the sub-par loot on the mobs we have killed thus far. As other people have stated, some of the items dropped from the lesser named are so trivial that nobody who could benefit from them would actually be in the group who killed the mob.

Tarlisha seems to be different, however, but Tarlisha alone does not make Catacombs.

A strong case-in-point is the fact that while Cmal and Catacombs are similar zones, Cmal is constantly hunted in, whereas Catacombs is nearly always unoccupied.

 

[iaeolan]

A strong case-in-point is the fact that while Cmal and Catacombs are similar zones, Cmal is constantly hunted in, whereas Catacombs is nearly always unoccupied.

Cmal also has 4 difficulties to cater to anyone post 60. Cata on the other hand, does not. Not a good point.

 

[tinkaa]

I couldn't say all Cmal loots are very good either. People are either hunting their gloves or the earring or golem pacemaker or arbiter/summoner, but that doesn't make all other loot so superior (since by Murphy's law you usually only get pieces noone in your group can use :haw: ).

Cmal might always seem crowded because it can support a wider range of levels and it's not neccessary that people in there are xping in Cmal3.
I also think Cata support more different groups - you either have a puller or mezzer or offtank, for example, while you can't split mobs in Cmal. Also, a necro can slow in Cata while they can't in Cmal, etc. I don't see them as similar zones at all, except that they're both good xp.

I think Catacombs are a great zone, one of my favourites. And it's always full just when we want to go there :keke:
And Cata have good loot, it's just that it's rare. Jontran's robe is better than Cmal3 caster robes and those robes are even rarer from my personal point of view.

 

[hooden]

I realize that Cmal has a wider range of levels where people can hunt in there. However, I would say most Cmal groups nowadays are 65+ and while Catacombs does not have distinct levels/divisions like Cmal, there are definitely still differences in the named there. I think the reason people don't hunt in Catacombs is simply because the risk vs. reward is not there, and then Cmal is there where you are guaranteed some decent reward at minimum (from any mob nonetheless).

In Catacombs, you can spend a couple hours clearing trash and then possibly getting an item that is decent.

I'm not saying this zone is junk, just that the zone could definitely be better if some of the considerations people have stated in this thread would be looked at. I see Cmal as an incredibly successful zone, and I think Catacombs has the potential.

 

[Manluas]

ontran's robe is better than Cmal3 caster robes and those robes are even rarer from my personal point of view.

It's yellow (and Tinkaa looks awesome in it! hi Luas ) syduck:

I realize that Cmal has a wider range of levels where people can hunt in there. However, I would say most Cmal groups nowadays are 65+ and while Catacombs does not have distinct levels/divisions like Cmal, there are definitely still differences in the named there. I think the reason people don't hunt in Catacombs is simply because the risk vs. reward is not there, and then Cmal is there where you are guaranteed some decent reward at minimum (from any mob nonetheless).

In Catacombs, you can spend a couple hours clearing trash and then possibly getting an item that is decent.

I'm not saying this zone is junk, just that the zone could definitely be better if some of the considerations people have stated in this thread would be looked at. I see Cmal as an incredibly successful zone, and I think Catacombs has the potential.

I have to disagree here.

I've spent quite some time in Cmal 1 and 2 and got my shot at cmal 3.1 and so far I have seen (and gotten) one item that's really an upgrade. There are quite some useful drops in Cmal for any give class but lets face it, with the current TMap loot and the tailored items on the market most of the upgrades you can get from Cmal 1 and 2 are marginal at best. Yet I haven't seen a lot of Cmal 3.1 loot but the Necro drops I've got would've all been downgrades to me.

I wouldn't mind random item drops in Catacombs, maybe similar to Highkeep (not NO DROP, not quality wise) but right now I would go to Cata anytime just for the really good XP. Alone XP and mobs respawning pretty fast makes that zone very very attractive (more attractive then Cmal 1 and 2 IMO).

 

[hooden]

I completely agree with you on this. At 4.6k mana, you won't be seeing upgrades from Cmal 1 or 2. Furthermore, I've noticed for some time now that necro cmal3 gear seems to be inferior to other casters.

 

[diolas]

Cmal 1 is designed for 50+. If you went there in your early 50's you'd have a good chance of scoring something you can use. Catacombs is practically lvl 65++ required, even for the first boss. The point is that the loot is more or less trivial by the time you can kill the stuff.

 

[tinkaa]

I think Cata loot is still pretty sweet. Iirc the caster belt from Jontran was even upgraded and now has 100 mana + stats etc (compare that to Arbiter belt from Cmal3.2) Sure, you won't gear up a guild in Catacombs, but it still offers few selected nice pieces.

I like the zone repop being as fast as it is, that makes you more alert and think before you randomly go afk :keke: (And I'm also among those that got caught in repops in the past.)
I think the whole chance at a relic at Tarlisha is worth the trouble if nothing else, even though it seems people indeed only aim for Tarlisha and Jontran :tinfoil:

 

[Jun]

Yep, the fact that Tarlisha drops a relic makes this clear worth it, as it is the single easiest mob in the game (in my opinion) that has a chance to drop a relic. The hardest part about it is the clear, but it can be done well within the time contraints placed on a group by repops. Not to mention, increasing the respawns would really hurt groups in Cata who are there solely for exp, or who can clear more quickly than average. I'd say if anything needs to be changed, it would be the difficulty of the Tarlisha encounter (make it harder) and the quality of Tarlisha drops (make them better/useful), because atm, the encounter and loot are somewhat disappointing compared to other encounters/loot in the zone.

Also, not to derail, but Jontran drops a belt? syduck: Fomelo info please!

 

[Jinxat]

Yep, the fact that Tarlisha drops a relic makes this clear worth it, as it is the single easiest mob in the game (in my opinion) that has a chance to drop a relic. The hardest part about it is the clear, but it can be done well within the time contraints placed on a group by repops. Not to mention, increasing the respawns would really hurt groups in Cata who are there solely for exp, or who can clear more quickly than average. I'd say if anything needs to be changed, it would be the difficulty of the Tarlisha encounter (make it harder) and the quality of Tarlisha drops (make them better/useful), because atm, the encounter and loot are somewhat disappointing compared to other encounters/loot in the zone.

Also, not to derail, but Jontran drops a belt? syduck: Fomelo info please!

I dunno about the easiest. Za'yth is pretty easy, and Im sure there are others out there that I am missing. Anyways about the difficulty level, Id say that its pretty balanced right now since the aux tank thing went in. The mobs hit harder now than before and its alot harder to fit in more aux tanks just for the sake of aux tanking since you typically need a certain type of group for catacombs. Anyways I agree with you about the drops though. Most of the drops off of anything in catacombs are near worthless. Lady of Sorrow is pretty much useless, Ive never personally done the darkweaver queen simply because Ive heard that her loot is horrible, Jontran has decent loot, but tends not to drop it, and Tarlisha also has decent loot. The only thing about Jontran and Tarlisha is that they require a better group then the others to kill, and by the time you can kill them (like people have said previously in this thread) most if not everything will rot except maybe for the eldritch scroll. I mean, the breastplate is pretty much useless as it has no stats or hp or resists on it at all. The boots are nice for tanks, but beyond those I cant think of anything else off of tarlisha that is really worth the clear other than the experience is good, and the feeling of accomplishment from killing her.

 

[tinkaa]

Yep, the fact that Tarlisha drops a relic makes this clear worth it, as it is the single easiest mob in the game (in my opinion) that has a chance to drop a relic. The hardest part about it is the clear, but it can be done well within the time contraints placed on a group by repops. Not to mention, increasing the respawns would really hurt groups in Cata who are there solely for exp, or who can clear more quickly than average. I'd say if anything needs to be changed, it would be the difficulty of the Tarlisha encounter (make it harder) and the quality of Tarlisha drops (make them better/useful), because atm, the encounter and loot are somewhat disappointing compared to other encounters/loot in the zone.

Also, not to derail, but Jontran drops a belt? syduck: Fomelo info please!

Sash of Twisted Fates:
waist
Effect: Death Pact (must equip clicky: 10.0 sec)
sta: +8 cha: +12 int: +12 agi: +8 mana +100
weight: 1.5
nec wiz mag enc

Sure, the belt lacks resists, but I'd gladly use it if I was there when it dropped, at least for the clicky and raw mana.


For the amount of clearing needed, I only think Lady's loot might be a bit underpowered. Since people that would aim for her already have better and would probably find her easy and not worth the clearing. I'd like her difficulty and loot be upgraded a little.

Edit: I was slow, but I agree with Jinxat.

 

[vistachiri]

I couldn't say all Cmal loots are very good either. People are either hunting their gloves or the earring or golem pacemaker or arbiter/summoner, but that doesn't make all other loot so superior (since by Murphy's law you usually only get pieces noone in your group can use  :haw: ).

Cmal might always seem crowded because it can support a wider range of levels and it's not neccessary that people in there are xping in Cmal3.
I also think Cata support more different groups - you either have a puller or mezzer or offtank, for example, while you can't split mobs in Cmal. Also, a necro can slow in Cata while they can't in Cmal, etc.  I don't see them as similar zones at all, except that they're both good xp.

I think Catacombs are a great zone, one of my favourites. And it's always full just when we want to go there    :keke:
And Cata have good loot, it's just that it's rare. Jontran's robe is better than Cmal3 caster robes and those robes are even rarer from my personal point of view.

The problem with loots being kind of subpar has been brought up alot in the past in cmal and other zones. Other than gloves and just taking things just because they drop I've seen someone snag something upgradeish off the trashdrops...once. Now some of the named stuff is ok, but a few pieces pale in comparison to pieces that are already droppable on the market. I'd say the single highest reason people go to cmal is the chance of glove drops w/an essential (such as the warrior gloves) to useful clicky. Other than that, not too terribly much point. That and your group makeup needs to be either filled with better than the place people, or fairly specific group makeups.

Cata I've never actually been to makes me sad.