Buyable Augs

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
Would be nice to have a new plat sink. So like Llanoldar suggested augs for the charms ONLY. Maybe something like:

Could start with random benefits that could be for all classes and end up at something very class specific like:

500p - +10 AC
1000p - +50 mana or hp
5000p - +80 hp/mana
100.000 - Healing Increment 5, Damage Increment 5, Damage Reduction 5
200.000p – Swarm Mastery – Runes of healing – Aura of incecibility – Aura of Madness (Battle, etc)

Don’t know really how to make it balance but could also add:

- Worn/focus effects
- FT / Regen
- Stats / AC
- Raw mana/hp
- Specialization
- Bard mods
- Elemental foci

Would give players a nice way to customize their charms, which is pretty awesome.
 

Nwaij

Dalayan Pious Diety
If this is in the context of charm only augs, I like it cause customizing charms is a neat idea.
If you are suggesting to make sellable augs for basically any slot, I strongly disagree. Thats what tradeskills are for, and tradeskillers should have some gain from their doing.
 

Naethyn

Dalayan Adventurer
Leave the augs to the trade skillers please. It's truly what sets trade skill armor apart.

I am all for adding more diverse augs though! (It would be nice to see something other than AC or mana augs on everyone)
 

Riesen

Dalayan Beginner
Naethyn said:
Leave the augs to the trade skillers please. It's truly what sets trade skill armor apart.

As nwaij said, and i think brasil originally intended. These aug's would be for charms only.

Seems a better idea to allow customizing of your charm, to remove the generic feel of spending 32k+

Not to mention it would free up alot of effort to tailor charms towards different classes.
 

Spiritplx

Dalayan Elder
Yeah, I believe he meant for charms only. I agree that charm only augs that are buyable from the aug vendor is a great idea (grats Llano). Making another plat sink and giving more variety to charms would be a nice idea. Could have certain focus effects or elemental foci buyable to a certain point. Could add on different advanced item effects or just raw hp/ac/mana, etc.

An idea (since I am a bard) is to add certain instrument mods as high end augs for charms.

This would give more flexibility in gear, and helps keep everyone's charms from being the exact same thing as others.
 

Crynel

Dalayan Elder
i must say this is quite a good idea. i would love to see some skill mod augs or heftier stat augs other than 5. would really help many out. be nice to put something cool on charms especially since deity augs wont be done for awhile (at least all of em)
 

Faelus

Dalayan Adventurer
Even a line for certain classes would be amazing. Something along the lines of say,
Rangers
100pp - +1 Archery
25,000pp - +5 Archery
100,000pp - +10? Archery
200,000pp - +20? Archery

Rogue backstab augs would do the same. Perhaps +parry, +riposte, +dodge, +block, and various casting skills as well.

That kind of progression would offer great diminishing returns, prices would probably have to be boosted a little bit.

Other options would be, perhaps, a damage reduction line for tank classes, a Valiance line, perhaps even Fire, Magic, Poison, Disease, and Cold focuses?

What I would LOVE to see as well - Buyable augs for various worn effects, like damage inc, heal inc, and whatnot, from 1 right through to 7. This could be rather overpowering, however.

What I WOULDNT like to see - FT, HP, Mana, AC, stats, saves. Those type of augs (excluding FT), should be left to tradeskillers.
 

robopirateninja

Staff Emeritus
brasileira said:
500p - +10 AC
1000p - +50 mana or hp
5000p - +80 hp/mana
100.000 - Healing Increment 5, Damage Increment 5, Damage Reduction 5
200.000p – Swarm Mastery – Runes of healing – Aura of incecibility – Aura of Madness (Battle, etc)
- Worn/focus effects
- FT / Regen
- Stats / AC
- Raw mana/hp
- Specialization
- Bard mods
- Elemental foci

Would give players a nice way to customize their charms, which is pretty awesome.
Faelus said:
What I would LOVE to see as well - Buyable augs for various worn effects, like damage inc, heal inc, and whatnot, from 1 right through to 7. This could be rather overpowering, however.

I really like the basic idea, but some of the suggestions seem a little silly. I don't think we should be putting tier 7 focus effects or swarm mastery on buyable gear, no matter how expensive it is. The idea of customizing charms with buyable components is a good one, but seriously guys.
 

Finny

Dalayan Adventurer
Faelus said:
Even a line for certain classes would be amazing. Something along the lines of say,
Rangers
100pp - +1 Archery
25,000pp - +5 Archery
100,000pp - +10? Archery
200,000pp - +20? Archery

Rogue backstab augs would do the same. Perhaps +parry, +riposte, +dodge, +block, and various casting skills as well.

That kind of progression would offer great diminishing returns, prices would probably have to be boosted a little bit.

Other options would be, perhaps, a damage reduction line for tank classes, a Valiance line, perhaps even Fire, Magic, Poison, Disease, and Cold focuses?

What I would LOVE to see as well - Buyable augs for various worn effects, like damage inc, heal inc, and whatnot, from 1 right through to 7. This could be rather overpowering, however.

What I WOULDNT like to see - FT, HP, Mana, AC, stats, saves. Those type of augs (excluding FT), should be left to tradeskillers.

I don't agree with many of these S&R posts but I must say that this is a pretty awesome idea. Skill bonuses at an exponential price would give opportunity for players to customize their characters more to their play-style plus rangers and rogues can get rid of their Trueshot/Nemesis charms! Horray!

However, I don't think there would be a need for them to have +attack and heal/nuke focuses since the most of the charms have it already... same with elemental focuses as with the diety augs (at least Enthann so far) you can get them. Also, I'd say maybe even forget hp/mana on the augs as the charms already are balanced the way they are (in the hp/mana departments).
 

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
robopirateninja said:
I really like the basic idea, but some of the suggestions seem a little silly. I don't think we should be putting tier 7 focus effects or swarm mastery on buyable gear, no matter how expensive it is. The idea of customizing charms with buyable components is a good one, but seriously guys.
Well what about something that stacks?

The worn effects realy dont make much sense, since there are plenty of gear with healing inc, dmg inc, etc. But what about if there was some kind of worn effect that would stack?
Example: Dont know if earth crude runes is a sort of healing increment, and IF it stacks with healing increment, but would be nice to have a chance to lets say have a 5% more healing thru a 200k aug charm. (And maybe add to all worn effects, damage inc *including the fire,disease,etc bases*, heal inc, duration inc, bane inc, range inc, etc, but of course you only will be able to choose one)

Faelus idea is good also, giving classes their natural line. But how long does a ranger or rogue have their line maxxed? Of course after thrueshoot and nemesis is hard to max it, but it isnt hard at all to gain skills from gear. What would be nice is to allow anyone choose any skill they want. Like a monk with +damage reduction and a rogue with +archery, so we dont stick rangers to archery, rogues to backstab, pally and sk do block and so on.

Let people choose which skills they want.

So the main idea is:

- Skils on aug charms open to anyone

- Worn effects that stack with the previous Increments.
 

Llanoldar Lluindar

Dalayan Beginner
The very short version of my original ideas, which I could expand upon if someone on the staff gets interested, goes more or less like this.

There would be 4 broad categories of charm augs, with some arbitrary number of tiers and slowly diminishing returns for increasing plat expense.

These categories would be, roughly:

Focused stat augs: a big bonus to one stat, but probably hp/ac/mana would be excluded or lesser than the pure stats/resists.
General stat augs: a smaller bonus to pertinent stats for each archetype (i.e. int casters would get int/cha/agi/sta) again with small hp/ac/mana boosts.
Skill mod augs: 2-3 different skill bonuses per class with different amounts depending on the skill (i.e. at a tier where casters get +5 to meditate they might get +15 to channeling or something like that).
Focus/worn effect augs: small really specialized bonuses, maybe as general as elemental focuses, maybe as specific as spell-specific focuses like the ones on thaz armor at higher tiers.

Some examples:

A middle tier general stat aug for hybrids might have +5 to str/sta/dex/agi/wis/int, 3 ac, 20 hp and 40 mana.
A lower tier focused stat aug might have +10 int or +15 dex.
An upper tier skill mod aug might have +15 to piercing or +5 to block.
A middle tier worn effect aug might have +1 to hp/mana regen and 5 atk. Or maybe like, a 3% elemental focus.
 

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
Llanoldar Lluindar said:
The very short version of my original ideas, which I could expand upon if someone on the staff gets interested, goes more or less like this.

There would be 4 broad categories of charm augs, with some arbitrary number of tiers and slowly diminishing returns for increasing plat expense.

These categories would be, roughly:

Focused stat augs: a big bonus to one stat, but probably hp/ac/mana would be excluded or lesser than the pure stats/resists.
General stat augs: a smaller bonus to pertinent stats for each archetype (i.e. int casters would get int/cha/agi/sta) again with small hp/ac/mana boosts.
Skill mod augs: 2-3 different skill bonuses per class with different amounts depending on the skill (i.e. at a tier where casters get +5 to meditate they might get +15 to channeling or something like that).
Focus/worn effect augs: small really specialized bonuses, maybe as general as elemental focuses, maybe as specific as spell-specific focuses like the ones on thaz armor at higher tiers.

Some examples:

A middle tier general stat aug for hybrids might have +5 to str/sta/dex/agi/wis/int, 3 ac, 20 hp and 40 mana.
A lower tier focused stat aug might have +10 int or +15 dex.
An upper tier skill mod aug might have +15 to piercing or +5 to block.
A middle tier worn effect aug might have +1 to hp/mana regen and 5 atk. Or maybe like, a 3% elemental focus.
Dont think raw stats seems good. When u get at higher tier, lets say +40 STA, it wont affect that much as you probably wil lhave all your stats to max cap. (Of course there is strenght aa that gives more bonuses after cap, but small)

But raw hp/mana/ac could be more usefull

The skill mod and the worn effect i also agree.

Lets say the aug charms can vary into 9 tiers.
500p, 1k, 5k, 10k, 25k, 50k, 75k, 100k, 200k

The skill mod would be:

1) + 1 dodge
2) + 2 dodge
3) + 3 dodge
4) + 4 dodge
5) + 5 dodge
6) + 6 dodge
7) + 7 dodge
8) + 8 dodge
9) + 10 dodge

1) + 1 meditation
2) + 2 meditation
3) + 3 meditation
4) + 4 meditation
5) + 5 meditation
6) + 6 meditation
7) + 7 meditation
8) + 8 meditation
9) + 10 meditation


Same for any skill and damage reduction.

As for the worn effect, assuming they would stack with the usual heal increment. (expand to affliction, duration, bane, range, dmg)

1) + 1 heal increment
2) + 2 heal increment
3) + 2 heal increment + 20 mana
4) + 2 heal increment + 50 mana
5) + 3 heal increment
6) + 3 heal increment + 50 mana
7) + 4 heal increment
8) + 4 heal increment + 50 mana
9) + 5 heal increment

For some melees:

1) Valiance 1
2) Valiance 2
3) Valiance 3
4) Valiance 4
5) Valiance 5
6) Valiance 6
7) Valiance 7
8) Valiance 8
9) Valiance 10

Or using raw mana / hp / ac

1) + 25 hp / mana
2) + 50 hp / mana
3) + 75 hp / mana
4) + 100 hp / mana
5) + 150 hp / mana
6) + 200 hp / mana
7) + 250 hp / mana
8) + 300 hp / mana
9) + 500 hp / mana

1) +5 AC
2) + 10 AC
3) + 20 AC
4) + 30 AC
5) + 40 AC
6) + 50 AC
7) + 60 AC
8) + 70 AC
9) + 90 AC

Idea is to always give the last tier a bigger upgrade from last one, since it doubles the price.


Could even make that part 5 besides the money spent you need to make some quests.
 

Kelval

Dalayan Adventurer
Sincerely, I doubt they'll ever put something past valiance 5 on a buyable item. At least I really do hope so.

While the idea sounds really appealing, many suggestions seem way off imo (swarm mastery, any focus past stage 5, any elemental focus past 1-2%), or not expensive enough.
I also tend to think that no charm before 200k should have those augment slots, to push people into investing more before customizing. Or that the progression would make it even more of a plat sink then the charms themselves.

For exemple, taking's Brasiliera's list just above, I would see the +250hp go for 200k, and nothing above that. Otherwise it might become really unbalancing (again, in my eyes).

I am all for it, but think suggestions should be more reasonnable if we want to convince the staff.
 

brasileira

Dalayan Adventurer
Kelval said:
Sincerely, I doubt they'll ever put something past valiance 5 on a buyable item. At least I really do hope so.

While the idea sounds really appealing, many suggestions seem way off imo (swarm mastery, any focus past stage 5, any elemental focus past 1-2%), or not expensive enough.
I also tend to think that no charm before 200k should have those augment slots, to push people into investing more before customizing. Or that the progression would make it even more of a plat sink then the charms themselves.

For exemple, taking's Brasiliera's list just above, I would see the +250hp go for 200k, and nothing above that. Otherwise it might become really unbalancing (again, in my eyes).

I am all for it, but think suggestions should be more reasonnable if we want to convince the staff.
I completly agree with you. I made this like just to throw out here as an example.

Of course staff would define what will be the tiers and their benefits. I just think that should have a large scale of which augs you could buy. Not just skills or focuses but many other things.
 

Llanoldar Lluindar

Dalayan Beginner
I think there are a lot of problems with your progression brasileira, and here they are in short.

1. Charm progression right now is the opposite of more upgrade for your money, you get progressively less stats per PP as you go to higher tiers (I'm quoting Felyn on this).
2. You are making the bonuses way too big. 500 hp and mana is way more than I ever had in mind.
3. You have missed the point of what my original idea was.

I don't want these charm augs to be plain old "make your character better" upgrades. That's what CHARMS are for, and that's what they do. The point of my original idea was to add a little customisability to charms; the charm tiers are still the basic upgrades.

A charm aug would fill some hole in your gear that you wanted to focus on. For instance I myself might buy an aug with a big wisdom bonus because it isn't capped for me and I still get huge mana from wisdom. I wouldn't buy melee stats because those are capped. Or say one melee stat was missing from my gear configuration, then I could boost it.

Charm augs being huge bonuses to core stats like hp/ac/mana is the exact opposite of what I want. They aren't supposed to be flat upgrades they are supposed to be specialized.

Take the following ranger example:

A huge HP aug would be great, but boring. Having to choose between shoring up my wisdom, adding an offensive skill bonus, adding a defensive skill bonus, or getting a focus that I don't have? That is interesting and allows for a degree of customization to your character that the game only currently allows through gear, and at that it is pretty limited. And it only applies to classes that have versatility (see bard/rogue HP vs AC vs resist augs discussions).

How about a less versatile class?

Ok, how about warriors? Do you take the small hp/ac upgrade, or the focus that increases aggro procs? What about a parry or dodge mod? Do you maximize your strong points or patch up your weaknesses?

If huge hp/ac/mana upgrades were available most classes would take those, and that is BORING.

Instead, a wizard could get an extra bonus to cold nukes to increase maximum DPS or get more fire or magic damage to increase their overall effectiveness. A rogue might have to choose between a small backstab mod and a huge piercing mod. The list goes on.

That list you posted is far too simple and bland. Charm augs shouldn't be cookie cutter across the board, there should be choices involved.
 

Prospero

Dalayan Beginner
While I understand that charms exist first as a plat sink and second as a means to improve characters, I think that too many of the voices being heard are from the high end who have the upper tier charms. I was recently thinking about a similar idea, but I think it should be more across the board. Let's be honest, not every player is going to be able to get the higher end charms ever, but would still like to use that inventory slot/have a way to improve. Maybe I am wrong but I think many of the casual gamers and people who will never see 200k in the bank should be able to customize their characters also. Unless charms are meant solely to get the people with the most buying power on the server to get rid of plat then saying things like
I also tend to think that no charm before 200k should have those augment slots, to push people into investing more before customizing.
is simply untrue (not to pick on you). If someone knows that they will not be able to get their hands on that big charm but wants to have some way to make their character unique and customize their character they should be able to. In fact, customizing lower end charms would be a great boon for people who cannot devote the time to get into the hardcore raid game or simply want an alternative way to advance.
 

Brimztone

Dalayan Elder
This is quite possibly the best S&R idea I have read in months. Fully endorse this idea, and would LOVE to be able to pay plat to have the Healing Crit Focus on my charm, as well as my Runes of Searing. I think ALL pet classes would love that.

A+ Idea.
 

robopirateninja

Staff Emeritus
Pkin1 said:
Maybe I am wrong but I think many of the casual gamers and people who will never see 200k in the bank should be able to customize their characters also.

Unless charms are meant solely to get the people with the most buying power on the server to get rid of plat then saying things like is simply untrue (not to pick on you).

Players who cannot/won't raid have jsut been given a huge new boost in Emberflow caverns, a 65 XP zone with droppable loots that are much better than anything to be found outside of a raid mob. They cost plat and are ways to upgrade your character short of a 200k charm.

Charms' primary function is to remove plat from the economy.
 
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