Brazen Bull

Xach

Dalayan Beginner
After recently acquiring Brazen Bull I noticed something odd about it. The resist rate on it seemed to be much higher than its predecessor, Iron Maiden. After checking out both spells in the parser I noticed that they both have a -75 resist adjust, but that Iron Maiden is considered a poison spell (much like its predecessors, The Rack and Heretic's Fork) and that Brazen Bull is considered a fire based spell.

As a player who uses the reverse DS line regularly, I see two problems with this spell line. The first is that Brazen Bull is the last of the spell line, and still has the same resist adjustment that the previous spell does. The second, is that Brazen Bull is a fire spell. In theory, it shouldn't matter what the spells type is as long as other factors make it more powerful than lower level versions. However in reality, fire is a much more common resist for npcs to have as one of their higher resists, whereas poison is typically much lower.

I have two suggestions that might bring Brazen Bull more in line with the rest of the spells.

1. Make Brazen Bull a poison spell and keep it at a -75 resist adjust. Lower the resist adjusts on the previous spells to bring them more in line. (I would suggest making Brazen Bull a poison with an even higher adjust, but honestly -75 has seemed more than enough to get the spell to land with Iron Maiden.)

2. Keep Brazen Bull a fire spell, but with a much greater resist adjust than -75.

As it is, with how often Brazen Bull gets resisted because it is a fire spell it doesn't make much sense to simply use Iron Maiden instead. This may just be a personal preference, but I don't believe having 5 extra points of DS is worth all the mana wasted trying to get a easier resisted spell to land.
 
I am not concerned about the spells usefulness on raids, and more concerned with using it in a group setting. As content currently stands, I don't know of any mobs that are immune to either poison or fire, but I do know of plenty that are highly resistant to fire.

And honestly, if the entire line were poison based I don't see why a resist adjust is needed at all. But I also wasn't around for the first discussion of these spells.
 
Why not use cold resist for this spell then? Makes more sense lore-wise (pallies have a fire nuke, after all). Or make it disease resist I guess, that would fit also. (But would just be exchanging one usually low resist type for another..)
 
3. The only reason the resist adjusts are as enormous as they are already is that SKs are apparently so used to never having any of their various unresistable and -200 adjust spells resisted that they couldn't handle depending on others to land resist debuffs to land this line. SKs already have it easier than they need it with resists. But, I went and jacked up the resist adjusts on all the spells in the line anyway, including this one.


Anyway, that said I'll consider it, mainly because fire immune mobs are more common than poison immune ones (though that doesn't nullify point 1 above). But if anyone wants to give the argument why SKs need all their high-level spells to be borderline unresistable, I didn't get it last time and would appreciate hearing it!

Thanks for the jack up :) Anyways I cannot really defend not being resisted on all sk spells, but when it comes to lifetaps it has to be considered that the heals that sk get from these is a large part of their tanking capability (same to a lesser degree with all taps (ie shroud and such). Ie if a lifetap is resisted, suddenly the sk isnt getting healed, and consequently will die a lot faster/easier. This has to be put in relation to paladin selfheals and hots and such that will land all the time.

Now when it comes to the spells that doesnt somehow affect the sk by buff/heal, I cannot really justify the resist adjusts, exception would be dd's with a long recast, the recast time justifies a resistcheck (still it's at 0 on those atm).
 
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The only reason I can think of to have knights have low resist mods is that in order to make them care enough or want to cast spells other than aggro spells they are going to have to be

a) really good
b) really reliable

Spells like word of the crusader fall under really good, and spells like touch of the succubus are really reliable. Spells like spears are neither, and so not very many shadowknights use them.
 
3. The only reason the resist adjusts are as enormous as they are already is that SKs are apparently so used to never having any of their various unresistable and -200 adjust spells resisted that they couldn't handle depending on others to land resist debuffs to land this line. SKs already have it easier than they need it with resists. But, I went and jacked up the resist adjusts on all the spells in the line anyway, including this one.

I don't know how you can say this when half my existence at the high end is watching vortex and deflux be resisted by high end mobs, the only other big resist adjust we get is ignite blood at -100, not even mentioning the only form of direct damage we get outside the lifetaps has none at all. Magic/disease garbage dot have none as well.



Spells like word of the crusader fall under really good, and spells like touch of the succubus are really reliable. Spells like spears are neither, and so not very many shadowknights use them.

Touch of the succubus is not reliable, I'm glad it got a resist adjust added to it but it still comes out to you losing a huge chunk of mana everytime its resisted. It still has the problem of requiring a buffslot which makes it horrible at times.


The only reason I dislike the spell being fire is because its a pain in the dick to land fire in 6 man content, Infact I had been walking around until this morning thinking iron maiden was fire based. :dumbsad:
 
I didn't know it didn't used to have a resist adjust. I just looked and its -75 or something.
 
Just throwing out there, Wizards and mages would KILL to have -75 resist adjust on their spells...

Really it sounds more like a charisma thing then a resist adjust thing.
 
Since bad players are making bad posts in my thread, I would like to again point out that my primary interest is to have the entire line as a poison base. I could care less about resist adjusts.
 
Most hybrids have this issue b/c gear stats tend to be ignored at the high end. At least for rangers the gear has a ton of agi/dex and very little str/sta/cha and to get those stats high enough you have to play around a lot, losing some hp/ac/mana/resists to be able to beef other areas up to the point of usability.

Overall looking at gear many low end pieces have highish stats but not much hp/ac/mana where as high end has the hp/ac/mana but misses stats. Its really more a flaw in itemization when high end gear is given stats based on the principle of "well they probably already have these stats on other items". Caster dps is able to land spells b/c they have maxxed cha always and -75 at max cha is awesome, but at 350 buffed (most hybrids aren't near this)...not so much.
 
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Also,

Front Page said:
In other news, the new SK reverse DS spells should now have their damage scaled with Specialize Energy/Defense, Affliction Enhancement, Elemental focuses, and tomes.

Is this still supposed to be the case? With zero Affliction Enchancement and no elemental foci my Brazen Bull spell does 17 damage. If I equip a fire focus item this number does not change at all. If I equip Affliction 6 the number increases to 19. Affliction 7 is still 19. And Affliction 7 + Fire Focus is still just 19.
 
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Is this still supposed to be the case? With zero Affliction Enchancement and no elemental foci my Brazen Bull spell does 17 damage. If I equip a fire focus item this number does not change at all. If I equip Affliction 6 the number increases to 19. Affliction 7 is still 19. And Affliction 7 + Fire Focus is still just 19.

Small numbers , rounding down , etc
 
Like I said in my post, I both equipped a 6% fire focus and an affliction 7 item and I was still maxing out at 19. But if the numbers are just too low and round down I guess there isn't much to say about that. It just seems kind of silly that these foci make no difference.
 
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