Bottlenecking Progress.

Snow_Man

Dalayan Beginner
(Yes this is another post requesting a change to the spawn timers).

Why is it after every "game enhancing quest," the game seems to get more miserable for the lower 90% of the players, while the upper 10% get items that most just bank to never use?

Almost every (non-18 man) named mob I look at to try and help my guildies advance, has been overtaken by one quest or another, with a 5 day random spawn timer thats so exclusively camped that the mobs usually killed within 20-30 minutes of popping (if not faster) making it so no one else can even guess the timer. I have even seen two times now that a mob WELL below reasoning for a guild to be in zone was killed within 5 minutes of spawning (especially seeing as it took the guild 25 minutes of clearing just to "wander" onto the spawn at the right moment, 2 spawns in a row.) Hard to base that random 24 hour timer luck on coincidence, and more on someone has access to SQL charts.

I have brought several people into the game, only for them to get frustrated by this and quit. It made me laugh the other day when I found out that SoD Donations went to recruit new player pools. I had to ask myself, why would they waste money on this when the intent is to keep these characters locked into their status unless an exclusive guild with access to the SQL charts decides to pick them up?

And before I get the answer, "We all had to go through it at some point." Let me save your typing space, most of these quests that are bottlenecking things didn't exist 2 years ago. So no, not everyone had to go through it. There were plenty of mobs that didn't require a 18 main raid that could advance a toon. Most still exist, but catching the mob up so you can kill it is nearly impossible (in some cases with zone claim the way it is, it is impossible).

My list of mobs that don't survive past 24 hours, generally falls in the zone of the Vah quest, but there are a few others. Why not just increase spawn timers and keep the player pool somewhat happy that is around? Yes I know, people will get upgrades... Isn't that what the game is based on? I don't believe this is handing items out, remember they still have to kill the mob to get the item.

--Alternate suggestion-- Why not put the loot tables for mobs's involved in Vah/aug quests, on the starred version's, so that people can have a chance at killing them and if they specifically need the vah/aug/other bottlenecking quest item they have to kill the non-star?
 

Draeos

Dalayan Elder
Umm what are you serious you think people have access to the database tables to track mob respawns? If they had this why would they even kill the mob and not just add the item they need or quest flag they need to there toon. Some zoroth level tinfoil here.

Edit: You realize that a good portion of these bottle neck mobs share respawn timers with trash around them right? So you see 1 of the trash spawned well its probably due move your people in. Just wow tho this level of tinfoil is just obscured.

On a serious note lets take the dragon in DN, I tracked this thing for like 5 weeks straight, Logged in the tracker one day and his trash was up, So i moved me and a box there killed the trash, and camped my toons, Left the track bot on char select and logged him in every 10min as to try and avoid someone noticing he might be due, Well doing this i happened across a newbie in the zone who needed another quest piece off him and he asked me and i let him tag along, I am not sure what progression your missing out on from the couple of mobs that involve the vah, but its nothing thats going to stop you enjoying and progressing your toon, So 1 more ancient dropper is dead, go kill the EW orc thing or some dragons. If by chance you catch someone doing one of the couple of vah mobs who share QPs with other quests you can simply ask them if you can come and get your other piece most if not all people would be happy to let you have the other piece.
 

Zapple

Dalayan Elder
Seriously ask people if you find them killing something you need and you're fairly certain they don't need what you do off of it. Most people won't be dicks about it and will let you tag along. Some things, though, like vah assassination mobs... got sniped on those for months.

Nobody has access to the exact spawn timers, it's just some people are really hardcore about tracking these things from elaborate chests in ToT to the djar miniboss to any other number of mobs that drop things that people above their tier would still want to get.

It doesn't change as you go up in tier. Happens with raid mobs, happens with high tier 6mans, happens with everything worthwhile. Any specific examples of mobs you've been unable to kill?
 

donfolstar3

Dalayan Master
Yes, tinfoil....
Though with responses like this who can blame the guy

On a serious note lets take the dragon in DN, I tracked this thing for like 5 weeks straight, Logged in the tracker one day and his trash was up, So i moved me and a box there killed the trash, and camped my toons, Left the track bot on char select and logged him in every 10min as to try and avoid someone noticing he might be due,

5 weeks and 10 minute checks and logging to avoid tipping anyone off? This sounds like the behavior of someone who jars and labels their own poop.

/tinfoil on
 

kern

Dalayan Beginner
If only it worked that way. I think this is about keys and quest pieces. There is multiple stages of a quest (have to do part one to get to part two,etc.) but part one is is perma camped the near instant the mobs spawn by the same clique,thus preventing others from progressing a questline.
 

Boehm

Dalayan Elder
We have members who have played here for 8 years. I myself have played for 5.
We know the spawn conditions of every named or boss in the game either personally or institutionally. We track kill times of nameds of interest to members on our boards. We have members who track these targets for other members who are at work, and message them about events.

You could just ask about the specific targets of interest, instead of tin foiling.
It has nothing to do with cheating.

We aren't going to tell you when the last kill time was or if its up, but you might get either how to figure out if a named is going to spawn in a 8 hour window. You will at least find out how to track a named in a particular zone. Because I'll tell you how I did it.

Also, no one in FWF is actively working on the Vah. Though members will kill an opportunity target someone finds up. CW, Exo and probably Sacred Band are definitely killing for Vah too.

On what Draeos said, most people arent interested in loot and are pretty happy for it not to rot. The only loot that might be claimed is some clicky.
 
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Sangku

Dalayan Beginner
I agree with Draeos, I'm curious as to which 6 man mobs u never find up though. Only one i've been having a really hard time finding is Tarlisha >.<. Maybe these ppl you find doing the content u seek with room in thier grp might let one of the ppl that u wanted to bring there tag along like Draeos did.

EDIT: I started to write my post after i read draeos's and now see 4 other posts. Darn that TV.
 
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Snow_Man

Dalayan Beginner
Oh I'm well versed in how to track mobs as far as the points in the thread are concerned, but I don't think the same tactics applied in what I have been noticing lately. I will use Ancient Tarlisha as a perfect example. Her trash does not spawn with her, so using the same reasoning that you would use for Frost King does not apply here. (Defeats the track the trash theory) Two pops ago we killed her with very few people online. I knew her start for her +/- 24 hour timer, simply because we knew the down time. We watched the zone, several groups on tier rolled through to get exp, generally killing the blue named in the zone. At one point things didn't follow that trend, a certain group rolls in skipping all named, clearing directly to her, while she is still down. (Defeats target of opportunity theory)

They were a mere few mobs away from her when a miraculous event happened. She spawned just for them! They of course killed her, and gated away. It had to be some insane luck to get that lucky.

As far as the ask someone to get the lower tiered rots, how do you ask them when you don't even know the mob will be up until the group is litterally sitting on her as she spawns? I just dont see it...

Anyway, moving away from that point, because that was not the reasoning for this post, or I would have stated names/guilds/etc. Back to the original point, what is the point of bottlenecking all this junk? Why not just increase spawn timers? With only an average of 250-300 players online at peak times now versus the 500-800 I used to see several years ago, the sever seems EXTREMELY more congested now than ever before, mainly because of board T11-T14's, if they are so content on killing this stuff, why not give them enough to kill so they get board of it and move back into their tier level? Does it really add that much more excitement/action/addiction to the game? Because lately, all I have noticed from these bottlenecks is added drama.
 
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Boehm

Dalayan Elder
Quila? She xps there. Because she can get high as a kite and spam consecrate undead, not having to worry about losing aggro. She is not hardcore, which is why it took so long to clear lol.

Send her a tell about how much you like trade skilling, and she will probably take your guild member to the named for the piece. Seriously, she is in there for the balm. She will probably hit you up to form a trade skill cartel or something.
 

Tesselajnen

Dalayan Adventurer
Since this guy brought up Cata and clearing only to Tarlisha. Thats what I do when I farm there too, I dont really want to kill anything else then the balsam dropers and the harder mobs that can drop me nice new spells. Most of the time I clear other stuff too cus its a long respawn on the trash I really want and my group more or less always clear all the way to tarlisha before respawns start, but I always do Tarlisha clear first. Sometimes we get tired after that and we just gate out.

IF Tarlisha would spawn during the clear, of course she will go down since there is stuff still needed from her due to quests. And if Tarlisha would spawn during the clear, it would be pure luck. I dont care about her timer, I dont care about her spawning or not for me, if I get the piece Im happy, if not it will happen some other day and if it doesnt, then whatever really.
 

Snow_Man

Dalayan Beginner
This post is not about pointing out a particular person or guild. I have learned over time, the GM's are well aware of what goes on, and when they chose to or chose not to turn a blind eye is their call. I am not calling out anyone here (I have intentionally left names/guilds out of this) and if by luck you decided to farm the zone for 15 minutes and luckily had Tarlisha spawn, props to you. I have seen it happen on several occasions though. Moving on to the reason I am posting this.

This post is questioning, what is the point of making these blocks in the road so severe that they cause new players to leave the server? If the intent is to keep this server is to create roadblocks that prevent progression, why not just stop making the new additions? If it is to create progression for a select few, why not lock the server and close recruiting or make it private to invites only? I'm trying to see the point to inviting people to a server that has made it EXTREMELY difficult to progress unless you know someone who has already tiered past the zone your in and is willing to drag you along.

The real reason for this post is, why not loosen up these road blocks and increase timers, so the road block isn't "can I log in at the exact moment X spawns, with the luck of getting invited to harvesting group Y's good graces?"

And instead the road block becomes, me and my friends want to kill X mob, are we actually good enough to kill it?
 

Snow_Man

Dalayan Beginner
Heck, I even thought of a different solution, why not put flags on people that do something to the nature of:

If anyone out of group/raid has killed mob Z in X ammount of hours, no loot is presented for anyone? It will prevent people from running chars through the same mob over and over again, yet the mob can spawn and people who have never had the opportunity to see or kill the mob will be given a fair shot at it? I dunno, I'm just coming up with random ideas here.

This might even cause PuGs to happen less frequently. If I knew members of my guild went on a PuG to kill a certain mob, then I know we can't bring them on a guild raid because it will cause no loot. Therefore, they will be less inclined because they know it will hurt guild progression. Right now we have members that gripe because they can't pug X mob because it hurts our progression. Yet during the week, the mob is never up because a PuG takes it down to "lock it down" so that someone else can't get it because they know that person wants to PuG a zone of their progression.

Like I said, most people that I have invited and quit left for 1 of 3 reasons. 1) They simply got bored of trying to progress in a game that halts progression based on progression mobs being down constantly. 2) They got tired of all the trolling (I have a /ignore filter for that). 3) They moved back into the real world after dedicating tons of hours.

I'm just looking at ways we can expand the server without continuously warding off new comers for the fear that they will "take our spawns and block our progression".

It also solves the issue found in this post:
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=25233&page=2
 

Rorne

The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
This post is not about pointing out a particular person or guild. I have learned over time, the GM's are well aware of what goes on, and when they chose to or chose not to turn a blind eye is their call.
I see, and in your personal life when you don't win the lottery is that the work of a shadowy cabal also?
 

Titanas

Dalayan Elder
Well this comes up a lot and all I can say is chose the less beaten path.
I've started new players off on T 1 -2 Targets and I've also gone the rout of doing high end exp content with a raid for pristine drops. If you can get a track bot in Cmal that is always good for exp and gear upgrades.

As people have said make track bots. I've 1/2 assed my Poearth artifact for the past 6 months now. I've seen mobs up there a few times but never really bothered to get it done. Sitting around waiting will never get me that arti and I don't expect to have it handed to me. I can easily make a pug or probably talk with some one thats clearing the place for salves for vah and they'd let me in .
 

Rorne

The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
You have actually hijacked your own point which might have had a sliver of merit by being just another impotent person who can not reconcile the fact that things do not turn out how he would like them so instead he creates a conspiratorial fantasy. The entire situation is as simple as this: you are up against people who devote very large amounts of time to this game and the pursuit of gain in the form of pixels, either you can not or will not employ the same methods so in your outrage over what you perceive to be an unfair system you have concocted an absurd scenario to make yourself feel better.

Should you have to spend so much time camping stupid quest items? Probably not, but that is the status quo here and it is not going to change even if you make a competent thread about it and the true reality is you DON'T have to spend the time, these are optional things and while they provide power none of them are integral to progressing in the game.
 

Rorne

The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Oh and please drop the "think of the new players" stuff, it's dishonest as hell, you're not exactly knocking down tarlisha's door for quest pieces after you zone out of the dream.
 

Snow_Man

Dalayan Beginner
Rorne, Your winning the lottery comment, no I don't expect to win it... That's why I retired by other means (at the age of 29 without mommy and daddy's help, or without living in their basement playing SoD all day) thankyouverymuch. Finding solutions to the problem generally works much better than praying that one day if I camp outside of the lottery office I will win it. I see a problem/issue here. I'm merely pointing it out and offering solutions to the ongoing problem. Server doesn't accept it, I would say fine their loss, but it's mine too. I do enjoy playing here as well.

As far as devoting time, I'm not so much concerned with myself. I spend plenty of time in game devoting it to pixels. What I am trying to avoid is certain things like a server going down because the influx of population has stopped and the player count is dwindling down by the day, and that little bar that's going more toward the red side due to similar issues. After seeing motd after motd about donating and finding out it's so we can get more recruiting slogans on websites, I asked myself, what's the point... We recruit plenty of people and most don't stick around. While I have plenty of characters I personally built, I also have T10+characters at my disposale...Most of them have left because of the same issues I am bringing up here. I don't know maybe I should just give up this tirade and walk away come back a few years down the road when the numbers have dwindled (500-800 peak hours 2 years ago, to 300ish now a days), so doing the math roughly 100 in a couple years, but I would like to play the game and keep people interested enough to actually build up the population on this server.

As far as the conspiracy theories go... Plenty of posts out there about this exact stuff going on and certain GM's getting fired when they exposed certain situations. If it's a conspiracy I'm creating, whatever call it what you want, it doesn't take having access to the code to see certain stuff going on though. Moving off the GM's/conspiracy portion, spawn timers in this game are still an issue and everyones solution is look the other way. That tends not to be my way of trying to address the issue.

And I must appologize Rorne, I may have been a bit rough there. I understand for some people having the 30th most elite character on a fictional game that is not even the real server is their ego/pride/life. I didn't mean to insult that for you. I was merely trying to make a point. You might try your own advice and go play the lottery though... Who know's maybe you'll have more to show for it.

and thank you for your concern/trolling over my time and my finances, but I'm pretty sure I will be fine. What I would like to see is my friends actually sticking around on this server. Back to the original post...

And Titanas, I agree it comes up, and most of us do choose the beaten path of camping it out. Just figured I would toss a thread to see if we can get the path renewed =)
 
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Rorne

The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Nobody is trolling you. I am straight up telling you that you are wrong and that staff members are not helping players cheat and that you think that is very telling. If you have names of GMs who have been "fired" for this I'd love to see some names and reasons why.

Donation money is not spent on advertisement, that's just another assumption you are making. If you want to make a thread about how much of a waste of time is involved in this game that's fine, I'm often frustrated with it too, but I am telling you it's not going to change but fair enough. My issue is with the shitty and slanderous way you're going about it instead of just making your point, especially when you seem to be very misinformed.
 

Snow_Man

Dalayan Beginner
Hmm odd because I was in game when one of the GM's made a MOTD comment and had an hour long talk about how the donation money is often used for ad's to recruit on google, and other websites.

As far as the cheating goes, I'm not the only one on the server that knows about it, and I could really care less. I would just rather it not impact the gameplay.

Cheating or not, I still don't see what the harm is in allowing people to actually finish quests. Yea so X item isn't nearly as prestigious as it previously was, no ones going to bed dreaming about how epic their character would be if they just finished that on tier quest. Yes at time's I am jealous of certain higher char items, but I can easily face reality and tell myself, "yes I know I would get slaughtered even if they gimped me in on that run."

However, it would be nice when I don't receive messages on the boards from my guildies saying after debating X and Y and how much time they spent trying to complete a single quest, only to have it sniped at the last minute, they have decided to quit the game and vowala I inherited a new char. I would much rather keep them around than having another cleric buff bot.
 
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