Blood-smeared Shard

[Xach]

Let's talk caster secondaries for a minute, if we might.

I have recently acquired a Blood-smeared Shard, and the first thing I noticed was that its mana appears to be under what it should be. To counter that, it has a point of flowing thought, we'll call that flowing thought for ease of conversation, 50 mana. So the shard has effectively 220 mana, and comes from a fight that is slightly harder (arguably) than upper thaz, and considerably easier (unarguably) than Valor A.

Lets introduce our other players, the Brimstone Buckler (Upper Thaz) and the Shield of the Persistant (Valor A)

Hinto has the Valor A shield equiped:
http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=hinto

If we apply the same rule of mana we get 220 mana from the Shield of the Persistent, and 270 from the Brimstone Buckler. I see this as an issue because the Blood smeared-shard, in my opinion is much harder to get than another caster secondary item that is exactly the same mana value, and is slightly harder to get than a caster secondary that simply blows it out of the water mana-wise. Not to mention they both have aug slots, which most casters would add a +30 mana aug to.

Overall, the mana is lacking, and though the Damage Reduction and HP are superior, the other items mentioned are shields they have AC + block skill that they add to the wearer so that the DR doesn't count for much in the end. The Bane Enhancement is nice, but in reality it is only useful in rare situations, and even then it is the Clerics and Necromancers who see the real benefit.

If others would agree with me that the shard comes from a more difficult encounter, then my proposal is that the shard be given an additional point of flowing thought to bring its total to the same mana value of that of the shield. Without the AC and resist bonuses I think that would bring the item up to be comparable with what it should be.

If others would disagree, I think that it would be appropriate that the Blood-smeared Shard receieve an additional 30 mana (equivalent of a type 2 aug slot like the compared items have) which would be the perferible option. Or it could get a type 3 aug slot (jewlery type, lets be real, it is a "shard" after all) to make a +24 mana aug available.

 

[Nwaij]

Looking at the Everburning Core from the same zone but a considerably harder encounter (Fomelo my secondary if you don't know it), I have to disagree on both suggestions, Shard looks in line with its follow-up. If anything, then Brimstone Buckler looks overpowered to me.

 

[Manguadi]

Everburning core is not the next step in the progression of caster secondaries.

 

[Nwaij]

Then enligthen me, what is it? Cause I see noone else but casters with it, and many high end casters have it.

 

[JDJersey]

the core is a good option if you otherwise have capped worn ft. It has the highest raw mana of any other secondary i seem to see of a caster offhand. So if you have capped ft, its tits, but if you are lacking, it is lacking. This is sort of where direct progression gets a little hazy i suppose.

Im not sure where the item in question fits in progression wise. if it is a niche item with its BE then that is quite satisfactory, as well as a nice item to have if you dont have the other one yet. If its supposed to be a general alternative, it could use some sort of mana boost, either raw or FT, though not necessarily even trade as it is decked with other cool stuff.

As it stands, solid item, maybe some tweaking but I dont see it as being insanely out of whack.

 

[Manluas]

To be honest, I think this item is almost fine as is - the only reason I'm not wearing it (yet) is that I don't have a DI replacement - the second I get it I want it.
If FT is not maxed it's not as good as Brimstone Buckler but my luck with this single drop is about the same as with my archaic piece.

Anyhow - I wouldn't mind this item getting a slight boost (Type 3 aug slot, 30 mana at max) but other then that it does seem okish for the difficulty of the encounter (unless it changed to a larger degree).

 

[vistachiri]

Then enligthen me, what is it? Cause I see noone else but casters with it, and many high end casters have it.

It is, and is not, things have changed from the days when ft used to be reasonably easy to cap. What that changed is causing an overvaluation of items with ft as opposed to those that do not have it (as ft overall became scarcer, the place where this is most evident is aura of balance items, which are hilariously powerful nowadays). Thus core is kind of out of it's element so to speak just by its nature. Really eventually mindfire win's a secondary slot over it in an ideal setup over the core.

Also a core v a buckler? That is a nobrainer decision tbh. I find it hard to understand why one would take such a massive loss (2 ft, stats, some resists) for what essentially amounts to 5 mana and 35 hp in upgrade. The only point I can see it becoming remotely valuable in terms of a tradeoff is when one has a 1.2 mil charm. Even then, I would probably end up wearing the buckler for the more balanced resist and leeway on gearing.

Also no, it is not the highest raw mana secondary, that would be vorrel at 255 (+ another 24 from aug btw, though....really it is a shield, having type3 is kind of weird, but then again I plan to never use one). The 2nd highest would be mindfire at 251.

As far as the shard goes, I've always found it pretty lackluster. Bane enhancement always seems to be fairly overvalued in terms of design (as far as I've noticed, it might not be the intent, but items with it with the exception of 1 i can think of tend to be pretty sub-par). Thing is, it seems like a massive bonus, as it is more % wise than damage increment. However once one considers the recast on bane nukes, and their incredibly situational nature...most people never bother with it. Especially druids and mages. Our banes are in fact positively worthless. Really the only people I could see using bane enhancement ever effectively? Clerics. That's about it. Necro's have better dots, druids have better nukes, mages have better nukes and rains. Even taking into account the lower %'s, and given the recast, with better dps even if they were =, even with the addition of more resist adjust to them (my relic rain still beats disposement ass, so does nightfire).


Really what it comes down to, is the shard is just not as good as any of the mentioned items. Less resists, way less mana , less ft, for damage reduction, slightly more h,p and bane enhancement. Basically the only niche it fills is the oh I have not gotten anything else because it just will not drop for me niche.

 

[Dzillon]

What am I hearing about bane nukes ? the staff has bothered a few months ago to add a resist adjust on them. When I'm in Highkeep or Cata it's often more valuable - depends of the group - to chain toss 60 & 65 nukes than to dot. It's imo not the item designer's responsibility that druids & mages have less targets - it's true that pretty much all planar mobs (which are elemental spirits in essence) as well as more mobs in xp zones SHOULD be flagged elemental.
Now on the core of the subject, if you don't have Ulaz belt, this is a pretty good option - at least it is for me. It is indeed not as good as the Earth buckler but I don't think it should. The Everburning core is targeted, like Vorrel, to FT capped people. Valor shield is indeed very good for its tier but I don't believe it's as common as the shard either (yeah it happend to us to get 2 shards...go to hell dual lore items !).

Now the shard is probably lacking a fesw resists cause it already has no AC... I would deffo see added some resists (even the weird types you often get in these next-to-last areas of ToT like PR DR on top of FR).
I don't see an aug added to a shard - although iirc Zhak managed to make one added to Zoti back then , one can always hope - but it could solve it, or maybe make it range useable (hell maybe PRI/SEC, or SEC/RANGE something like that ?)

 

[BenGordon]

I know Zaela changed this item once already but I agree its still not preferable over the cmal4, upper earth and ValorA shield. I think offhand 2 FT is a crutch the majority of ToT/Thaz + tier casters are forced to use to max themselves in FT. Arakias is the only fomelo I could find that currently has max ft without 2 ft in offhand (with the exception of the four 1.2 mil caster charms).

I think a really solid solution for this would be to just make it a primary usable option. Suddenly it becomes a desirable alternative to HoD, Entropy and Infernus instead of a meh it's not my ideal (offhand) gear setup.

 

[Xach]

The primary point I was trying to make is that there is ZERO reason for me to be satisfied with it. There are several options from much easier fights that give me much more benefit, so why on earth would I keep this item if I had a buckler, or a 4.2 shield for that matter.

The option of changing it to a Primary/Secondary item is a very good suggestion as well.

 

[Nwaij]

Really eventually mindfire win's a secondary slot over it in an ideal setup over the core.

Evaluate please, and name some alternative primaries to fomelo with Mindfire in secondary. Cause the only person who indeed uses Mindfire as secondary is Temellin, who has Entropy as primary. And Entropy is kinda... old on the tier we are talking here.

Also a core v a buckler? That is a nobrainer decision tbh. I find it hard to understand why one would take such a massive loss (2 ft, stats, some resists) for what essentially amounts to 5 mana and 35 hp in upgrade. The only point I can see it becoming remotely valuable in terms of a tradeoff is when one has a 1.2 mil charm. Even then, I would probably end up wearing the buckler for the more balanced resist and leeway on gearing.

I have no idea where you got your numbers from, but unless you are talking sanctum gear, the core is a 35 mana upgrade. Trust me, I did the math when I picked my gear. You also might want to look at Sintasia, who is using the core over the shield without an 1.2mil charm. (Please ignore her leg item, real one is upgraded thaz legs)

Also no, it is not the highest raw mana secondary, that would be vorrel at 255 (+ another 24 from aug btw, though....really it is a shield, having type3 is kind of weird, but then again I plan to never use one). The 2nd highest would be mindfire at 251.

The real question here is though: whats the best Primary/Secondary combo out there?

As far as the shard goes, I've always found it pretty lackluster. [words aboute Bane enchantment]

It is a lackluster compared to UT buckler. As you stated, Buckler seems to be a must-have item for basically everyone. From my experience, items totally everyone must have tend to be overpowered. So maybe the buckler is the item that should be looked at.

 

[vistachiri]

Evaluate please, and name some alternative primaries to fomelo with Mindfire in secondary. Cause the only person who indeed uses Mindfire as secondary is Temellin, who has Entropy as primary. And Entropy is kinda... old on the tier we are talking here.

Prime Shard of the Aether, is a pretty reasonable example. Fomelo strylok for an example of what it looks like. Though really, entropy is a really good example of a piece to put in as a primary whilst using mindfire as a secondary. Especially for necros. It lacks an aug slot, which is really the major downfall of using it over the buckler. However it also possesses 2 recovery and -3 aggression (the recovery being of primary use for necros, while the -3 aggression is of utility to all casters). The real problem with entropy from a primary standpoint is really whether one wants to sacrifice the resists. The cold damage is negligible. Even still, I consider it a better alternative to the core tbh, as 2 ft allows one more significant overall upgrades in other areas.

I have no idea where you got your numbers from, but unless you are talking sanctum gear, the core is a 35 mana upgrade. Trust me, I did the math when I picked my gear. You also might want to look at Sintasia, who is using the core over the shield without an 1.2mil charm. (Please ignore her leg item, real one is upgraded thaz legs)

Oh, was tired, was thinking buckler was 200 flat without aug for some reason. I'm aware sintasia has it equipped. I'm also aware overall that it's a poor tradeoff for the other items she has equipped in terms of attempting to max her ft. For instance, class robe, which beats the ass off of the other robe in so many different areas it isn't even funny, except for in the area of ft. The difference between a core and a buckler is really wanting a well geared overall character v I want mana.

The real question here is though: whats the best Primary/Secondary combo out there?


It is a lackluster compared to UT buckler. As you stated, Buckler seems to be a must-have item for basically everyone. From my experience, items totally everyone must have tend to be overpowered. So maybe the buckler is the item that should be looked at.

It's dependent. By the logic that the UT buckler must absolutely be looked at, every aura of balance item in the game should also be looked at, as well as every item with more than ft 1. As they are all just about irreplaceable, resulting from what I mentioned earlier. Belts are another good example. I don't see a real alternative to soulspike, also 2ft. The most often ideal caster neck is also generally the woven ivy choker (and healer neck for that matter), and the only reason not absolutely every caster is wearing one is simply due to it's rarity, the only neck that compares even remotely is one from sanctum. It's a strong slot, and while the gulf would have been okay, the other items lack it, or any way to compensate for it in a reasonable manner.

Thing is, gets nerfed, you'll just have everyone rocking out a nevian in ringslot instead. Not like much will change.

But I digress, the shard is pretty lackluster, and I think the reason is mostly that it attempts to hit a few more areas than it really should. Especially in such a strong slot. It would however be a baller pair of caster shoes, or a pretty fine neck. But as a secondary, meh.

 

[akat]

So everything's been said about this item... dev's gonna take a look into it?