Beastlords

Vitali

Vitali

Dalayan Master
I was curious why no one plays this class really, compared to other classes anyway. I wanted to see where their DPS, ability to tank to an extent (like monks higher tier), utility, and such match up to monks who share gear and shamans in some cases. The problem with this was there were no Beastlords I could really chat with and kinda pick their brain for how the Beastlord works and sizes up.

Is there a blatantly obvious reason no one aside from Agiktesse plays actively/ semi actively on a Beastlord? How does their damage size up against Monks, Rangers, and Rogues? They can wear the Staff of Shifting Shadow from CoD2 event and have a pet with good proc buffs AND spells for damage which include a swarm pet. Would they be better then a monk equally equipped and progressed?

Just looking for some neat information on this very mysterious class. My experience has been limited to "Hey, we got a Beastlord at zone in if you wanna load him in for Bliss and Cunning. Thanks!".
 
Beastlords have gotten a lot of great tweaks recently....may or may not be due for more idk. It's a very desireable class in groups/raids...the only thing I can 100% say for sure is that I know why Thade never played a beastlord =\
 
Their are tons of beastlords that play.. they are just all under t10.. maybe we have some kinda of major drop off after t10.... idk... but i love my Beastlord.
 
I am a beastlord, and I am active. You obviously haven't looked very hard. Heck, just Friday morning, 4 of the 5 active beastlords were all on. (Agik Must have been sleeping at the time!) Now, I wish I could say that was all a joke, but sadly it seems it isn't. There were 4 bst on, and all of us were lfg.

Beastlords bring fairly good dps to the table (with their pet(s) and such), but don't expect them to tank things like a monk does. Why? Because our stances are shit, especially compared to the monk's selection. The new pet spells are pretty nice, spirit of soothing (group heal proc) being the big one. But we just don't have the ability to mitigate damage as well.

Raids generally want a bst for bliss, vigor for dps, savage on rogues, and cunning for the caster group. But finding a group, no matter how much forum-goers profess love of the class, is significantly harder. Why? I have no freaking clue, but it annoys me to no end. So people get frustrated of being lfg for awhile, and quit or re-roll.

As for dps, I usually dps close to the monk on a raid (but I am still the damn shell short of my runic1), with rogues above me, and sometimes the rangers too. (Depends how awake the ranger is, I guess.)
 
They do solid dps. They fall behind a bit through the tiers before they get big boosts from runic1, runic2, shadow staff, horok. Tanking wise, with pet stance and someone group healing them to keep the pet alive, they are able to tank hard things pretty well. But out of stance they are considerably worse tanks than monks or rangers imo.

Overall, they are a solid class and I dont really know why they are so unpopular to play. They are pretty boring at lower tiers but the same can be said for other classes.
 
Sorry for beeing a awesome euro and sleep when US have their hours online, Rans :p

I think, that beastlords needs more attention when played then for example a ranger or whatever really. If you just stand there attacking and sending a pet its boring, if you want to use the full capacity it gets too much work for a lot of ppl and that is why they go to a other class. (Thats one thought I got at least, so nothing to do with class more then that you need to be way more active then a lot of other classes.)

I love my beast, I play her in a way that really works out for me and my standard set of group. The /s 7 is awesome and yeah, its more or less the only one that I feel is usable. The spells we got lately, specially the Soothing one, is SO amazing. We have gotten boosts lately and now, I think beastlords are really great. But I guess I dont recall completley how they are at lower levels anymore... (I also loved my beastlord all the way from level 1.... Really my kind of class.)

Beastlords are really underestimated by people in my opinion.
 
A bst really brings a lot to the table but perhaps this is an Enchanter type issue. Before the change to GoG and other new cool ikisith spells Enchanters felt a bit gimped; now they have to manage all sorts of powers to max their dps via AoD / SomB, and they can see the damage they are doing.

So a Bst ups attack with SV, and Savagery, and spells with Cunning and SB for mana regen. Perhaps if this was changed so the BST sees the effect they might stick around more and see the benefit? Also a group that doesn't want a BST is silly. Paragon is amazing. BST are great for hatesb, for example, and can be undergeared to still be effective. Extra slows are great.

They get really great spells, the moral of the story is if you see a BST lfg drop someone in your current group and grab them.

It has seemed to me like SoD goes through phases of popular and unpopular classes. I remember an influx of new players in recent times asking what was the least played / most desired class, and many people said Bard. Several weeks later there were just so many bards everywhere. When I started 3+ years ago, a new player would be told monk+shm was the best combo, and back then EVERYONE was a monk+shm. So new players will be told BST is underpopulated, and in a few months there will be so many we'll have to cull them.

Maybe Zaela should give BSTs these intelligent pet AIs she has been working on...

Also, give them the ability to track animal mobs. That would be a nice flavour to the class... If possible.
 
Vitali said:
I was curious why no one plays this class really, compared to other classes anyway. I wanted to see where their DPS, ability to tank to an extent (like monks higher tier), utility, and such match up to monks who share gear and shamans in some cases. The problem with this was there were no Beastlords I could really chat with and kinda pick their brain for how the Beastlord works and sizes up.

Is there a blatantly obvious reason no one aside from Agiktesse plays actively/ semi actively on a Beastlord? How does their damage size up against Monks, Rangers, and Rogues?
Click to expand...

The Void Worm on 6/7/2012 in 137sec Win

Total
--- DMG: 1145059 (100%) @ 8358 dps (8358 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 331738 @2439dps

Baxters + pets
--- DMG: 159541 (13.93%) @ 1191 dps (1165 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 14975 @123dps

Methril
--- DMG: 143623 (12.54%) @ 1149 dps (1048 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 3932 @246dps

Oshieh + pets
--- DMG: 131157 (11.45%) @ 1033 dps (957 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 15498 @145dps

Ghaellie + pets
--- DMG: 116606 (10.18%) @ 933 dps (851 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 25518 @209dps

Urson + pets Omg BST dps. Spires/yclist fists. Doesnt even have codex done.
--- DMG: 91594 (8%) @ 727 dps (669 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 26769 @219dps

Tahn shadowstaff
--- DMG: 90183 (7.88%) @ 663 dps (658 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 19984 @156dps

Kiang
--- DMG: 88050 (7.69%) @ 699 dps (643 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 20892 @171dps

Froldo
--- DMG: 82762 (7.23%) @ 662 dps (604 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 7095 @58dps

Raxton shadowstaff
--- DMG: 82350 (7.19%) @ 619 dps (601 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 598 @598dps

Wegas + pets
--- DMG: 53746 (4.69%) @ 489 dps (392 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 4901 @79dps

Fiara
--- DMG: 52417 (4.58%) @ 419 dps (383 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 20405 @167dps

Gankuag
--- DMG: 28926 (2.53%) @ 213 dps (211 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 132444 @974dps

Sema
--- DMG: 21103 (1.84%) @ 160 dps (154 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 35760 @275dps

Precious
--- DMG: 1533 (0.13%) @ 53 dps (11 sdps)

Kelpie
--- DMG: 1468 (0.13%) @ 1468 dps (11 sdps)

Grej
--- DMG to PC: 2967 @2967dps

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I appreciate the responses. I guess maybe my vision of Beastlords was matching Monk DPS, maybe being slightly higher due to pets and procs. Obviously not being as useful because they don't have FD, at least in the capacity of pulling and wipe recovery. With their stance to share damage with pet I figured they could tank at least as well as a monk in situations that would be viable.

I only make comparisons to Monks because of their similarities gear wise. I know the classes are pretty different. It appears from responses and Raxton's parse that they are pretty good as a DPS. I was starting to think maybe they were just very weak compared to other classes. Guess that isn't true. I'm just stumped as to why there is no love I guess, I'm even guilty of seeing a BST and other LFG and thinking "Ehhhh.... think I'll grab that Ranger, I'm sure the BST will find something to do. Right?"
 
My opinion:

Most of bsts only use the 50% slow, Sha's reprisal (if they slow, cuz there are even bsts who dont slow). They don't realize that Sha's reprisal is magic based. Its always useful to have 2 slows in the spells list, so if your 50% slow is resisted, cast quickly the 40% slow Plague of insects, which is disease based. You save the recast time of Sha's reprisal and you increase the chances to slow the mob.

Most of bsts don't change fight styles. /s 7 is highly recomended if you get aggro while dpsing cause you will help much your group healer/s. Its just that, to type /s 7. And then, after you lose aggro, /s 2 and keep dpsing. And while tanking, if you use /s 7 wisely, its a big help: you can use /s 7 until you press Mend companion AA hotkey, for example, then /s 3 for some time, then /s 7 and mend companion again, etc.

Most of bsts dont keep the short buffs refreshed: cunning and savagery. ALWAYS, in all your spells lists, you must have savagery and cunning in the same slots to be always able to cast them. Those are awesome buffs you should have them up in any moment. And if your tank doesnt drop cunning, send him/her a tell to make him/her know he/she will tank better without cunning.

Most of bsts forget they have Blind debuff. The most efficient spell for tanking, imo. The mayority of bsts just use slow and, maybe, uncapacite. You can build a lot of aggro with slow/blind/kick. Just one slow, no need to burn your mana pool casting 20 slows. One slow and all the blinds you want.

Most of bsts dont use the amazing Recall minion AA. Its so useful to place the pet always at the back side of the mob, that it depress me the fact no one bst uses it (well, I guess there are skilled bsts out there who use recall minion wisely, but I didnt see them). Also, if you are tanking and there are magicians or necros in your group, place your pet next to the magician/necro pets, then move yourself to the opposite side.

Most of bsts have paragon, but they keep forgetting about it. Enough said. :p

Most of bsts are focused in melee stats. Cha is one of the most important stats in a bst. If you cant slow the mobs and there is not other slow class in the group, you will be pretty awful in that group.

Most of bsts dont ask if people want/need buffs. They wait until someone asks them. Bad. Keep asking if someone needs haste/dex/str/acumen. Dont wait for people to ask you if there is not a shamman in your group.

And I'm probably forgeting more things. But you get the idea. Beastlord is a very good class if you know how to use it. Its not really a class for lazy peeps. Stop making people think that bsts are bad. This game/server is very good balanced. You just need to figure out how to use a bst efficiently.

Maybe if all bsts would play as good as possible, bst class wouldnt be considered a bad class for grouping with.


My favourite class, by far. For ever.


Greetings
 
Beastlords are like mages in that they are pretty bad to mediocre at lower tiers but get some nicer things in terms of items and spells at higher tiers that are only useful mostly at higher tier. When Fuwok played his beastlord he did pretty good DPS, but as you can see he is pretty high tier with nice items.

The Runic 1 spells for both of these classes are monster summons that are really only good on things (usually scripted to not AOE pets, at high tiers) that do not blow them up immediately, and your dps being competitive seems to be largely based around these things not blowing up. At low tier and on things that blow up monster summons these classes are largely sub-optimal and brought along for utility/buffs.

Conclusion: #petclassproblems
 
Don't judge a beastlord solely on their DPS either. For melee classes, having a bst saves a buff slot with SV, the cunning line is *awesome* and savagery...well it's just amazing. When our MT in Aeternus found out Savagery did more than just +atk I had to bribe Bob to keep casting it on me and not on the tank for the saves =(

Speaking of Bob (Kjiel) he saved more raids in the years I played with him than Call of the Blessed.


Also the reason Thade never played his beast is because I made his life miserable demanding constant buffs (I hade like 4 hotkeys with special thade-messages for fading buffs/timers). That and Thade with a pet was a 50% chance to wipe a raid.
 
I call shenanigans Agik, since when do you need sleep? :D

@Kult: Not sure who you are, or who you've been grouping with.. except I know it wasn't me. My spells set (except maybe while raiding) always has both slows, cunning, and savage in it. I access a friends retired mage to keep me in peridots (really, could that gem requirement just go away yet?) to keep savage up. Besides that, it is the pet heal, normal heal, r1, and poison dot. If I am fighting stuff with a ds, I drop the dot for annul magic.
If a bst maintains cunning, and gets some -aggro gear, taking threat from an active living tank shouldn't happen. And when I solo, slow+ dot is usually more than enough to hold aggro off my pet, I haven't used incapacitate in ages. (Though I admit to forgetting about the blind spell. oops)
More often than not, our buffs aren't needed, as either a shammy is there with his far better ones, or somebody logs one in for the relic buffs. Even if that isn't the case, our casting 3 or 4 buffs for what a shammy can do in just 1 or 2.. no thanks, buff slots are PRECIOUS. It's all overcap stats anyways, at this point, the extras added to the buffs are where it is at. :)

I will say, I agree with both Agik and Kult, the class is not an auto-attack and forget class. You can do that, but the class shines when the person behind the keyboard stays active.
And so is Zapple right, the class suffers the same pet issues a mage does, i.e. when the pets go poof, the dps drops just as quickly. Mobs with heavy aoe's are just a pain.

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The only real issues with the class I have are: no group sow (please???), pet survivability of aoe's, and that the stances are horrid.

s4: I used this while leveling, and at low tier. Because we can heal our pet for more than ourselves, it was useful to give the pet the aggro, and then drop the heals on it while soloing. By mid-tiers, its use starts to wane, as aa's and gear gives us the ability to mitigate damage better than out pet can.
s5: Uses way to much stamina for the little boost it gives. You'll be out of sta before even most short fights are over, even with acumen and such.
s6: Spell interrupt. Situational at best, I don't think I have ever used it.
s7: The "tanking stance". Splits your damage with your pet, most useful if there is someone around to help heal the pet also. Sta drain isn't as bad as s5's uselessness, but still seems fairly high. It is probably on par with s4 in that regard.

I really liked Zaelas ideas to revamp the stances into something like the warrior system, it could really bring something more "full time" beneficial to the class. I also wouldn't say no to having Track added to the class, seems strange a "master of beasts" doesn't know how to track one down.
 
Dimmi said:
Don't judge a beastlord solely on their DPS either. For melee classes, having a bst saves a buff slot with SV, the cunning line is *awesome* and savagery...well it's just amazing. When our MT in Aeternus found out Savagery did more than just +atk I had to bribe Bob to keep casting it on me and not on the tank for the saves =(
Click to expand...

yeah i remember having to convince a few tanks to open up buff slots for Savagery on fights where they needed really high resists and pretty much the whole raid is like WTF IT GIVES RESISTS? I think its a rogue campaign to keep sav to themselves.
BSTs are similar to enchanters where what they bring to the raid is more of increasing everyone else's DPS rather than their own direct contributions. Though that has become less and less so with the introduction of stuff like runic1 and other changes since I quit.
 
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