Bard auto attack bug

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V

Valv

Dalayan Elder
When swapping a flute to offhand to use bellow auto attack stops working, even when you swap an OH wep back in. Turning autoattack off and back on does not fix it, only casting another spell seems to let you attack once more so you end up doing nothing for ~5 seconds. Besides being tedious to swap every time you want to use it and messing up /s this is really annoying and would be great if it could be fixed.
 
I seem to recall hearing about some mechanism in place like this so that bards can't swap in a flute, bellow, and swap back to their weapon before the delay for their attack comes around. This would essentially be dual-wielding and using a flute all at once.

That said, I don't really play bards other than Pot4/Tarhyl's/autoattack/afk and I certainly haven't messed around with swapping instruments and such. I don't know if this is working as intended or indeed bugged.
 
Swapping in/out any instrument as a bard disables melee attacks for 6 seconds afterward. It's a tradeoff for the benefit of doing more nuke damage considering you only have to put the flute on long enough to cast your nuke and then remove it.
 
It might be a benefit if there were not worn instrument effects that would make the spell do basically the same dmg but as it requires a flute in offhand to cast its not a tradeoff at all because there is no choice, its a requirement.

It makes more sense to leave the flute in OH and melee only with MH till oom considering the spell has a 5sec rechange and melee is locked for 6...There is no point in taking it out because it will turn melee off completely while you could at least be doing MH dmg.

Do tanks get melee lock when they swap a shield on?
Do casters get spell locked for 6sec when they swap in a clicky to use? or become unable to take it off till the cd is back up? No, they click it then swap it out.
Why is bard the only class punished for swapping gear?
Those are benefits that have no negative effects. It seems silly to require a instrument swap and then punish us for it.

If I had a choice I would never swap because i find it annoying to do mid fight and would rely on worn mods. If a bard did even 250dps from melee 6seconds of no melee would be 1500dmg lost for 1 nuke having a ~.4 better instrument mod, the more melee dps the bard gains and the better worn mod you get the worse swapping becomes but that isn't even an option.

Actually its more like 9 seconds of no melee if you swap it in, start the 3 second cast then swap it out for 6 more seconds of lock or 2250dmg loss at 250dps, starting to not be a very big advantage and a pretty lame mechanic for a hybrid.
 
youre right there is never any reason to swap instruments in while grouping/raiding unless there is a very specific portion of the fight that is maybe ranged only or something. there really isnt any reason to use instruments in general unless you are kiting.

i would like to see some overhaul done on bards and how they interact with instruments. zaela started a thread a while back, like early 2012? maybe before that even, talking about this idea and i was trying to be helpful but it never went anywhere. once the bard starts amassing worn mods, instruments are basically obsolete.
 
wait we are nerfing bard damage? i dont understand?
i dont know if im missing something but bard dps is also on the low end anyways and this tedious task of swapping for extra dps doesnt seem like its boosting them up any.... i cant speak well for the lower end cause having a raid of same geared/exped people is pretty rare to come by, but since t8+ i only see bards at the bottom with equally gear people... i understand from an immersion stand point where this comes from but from a balance stand point seems odd.
 
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Valv said:
Isn't the point of being a hybrid to melee and cast? Why does using a song require us to do nothing afterwards and why is it different than any previous bellows?
Click to expand...

This isn't a bug! Neither is it a specific nerf to bard damage. Rather this was by design and has always existed. Until they get the final Bellow it is rare to swap instruments and so it isn't usually noticed. In addition, non-bard casters are locked out of melee for the duration of casting spells. You may not play another hybrid but this is the case. Bards continue to melee while singing, which is a huge boon. To take it a step farther, you would be able to switch out a drum, flute and sword to maximize your bonuses. So this cooldown on melee for an instrument swap is the balance struck. As most bards are constantly singing DoTs and Bellows while in melee, locking out your melee every time your casting bar is up would be much worse!

As a practical suggestion, there are ways to work with this system. Use a couple of lower level Bellows that do not require the flute, and save the big nuke until the end to make use of Crescendo. In an exp group when you can hit at least two mobs Denon's Requiem Finale will do more damage than Belligerent Bellow for less mana. Just learn to time it so you don't hit yourself. Bards can cast while moving for a reason! In short, there is only ONE song that requires an instrument swap in the whole songbook.

Zaela did make a pretty big overhaul to instruments when they were changed to use one hand instead of two. Some other changes were suggested and I believe the Runic 2 was also changed at that time. Not too bad! The larger issue of instruments and bard dps would need a new thread. I hope this answers your questions.
 
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mechkl said:
wait we are nerfing bard damage? i dont understand?
i dont know if im missing something but bard dps is also on the low end anyways and this tedious task of swapping for extra dps doesnt seem like its boosting them up any.... i cant speak well for the lower end cause having a raid of same geared/exped people is pretty rare to come by, but since t8+ i only see bards at the bottom with equally gear people... i understand from an immersion stand point where this comes from but from a balance stand point seems odd.
Click to expand...

Did it ever come to your mind that not all classes are meant to be equal DPS? Bards get mezzes and nukes and dots and melle and arent squishy and have unique buffs in form of their songs and are the best solo class and...

tl;dr

Bards are amazing as they are, them being among the bottom of the DPS ladder in raid scenarios is a tradeoff for being great in about every other field.
 
rangers.... nuff said...

however you do make a solid argument... they have tons of utility...
 
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A perfected bone golem on 4/17/2013 in 154sec

Total
--- DMG: 985478 (100%) @ 6399 dps (6399 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 427453 @2794dps

Gares (a bard) boxed
--- DMG: 164007 (16.64%) @ 1116 dps (1065 sdps)

Poakin
--- DMG: 144673 (14.68%) @ 978 dps (939 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 1572 @1572dps

Raxton 11bane undead / not boxed focusing on QQ dps
--- DMG: 144393 (14.65%) @ 963 dps (938 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 20157 @229dps

Galsan was boxed
--- DMG: 140578 (14.26%) @ 925 dps (913 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 14049 @169dps

Gingerlette
--- DMG: 81279 (8.25%) @ 576 dps (528 sdps)

Ludovician
--- DMG: 73483 (7.46%) @ 490 dps (477 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 26999 @325dps

Turtlepower
--- DMG: 40713 (4.13%) @ 273 dps (264 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 32520 @392dps

Catarina
--- DMG: 39551 (4.01%) @ 279 dps (257 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 26469 @319dps

Apros
--- DMG: 27522 (2.79%) @ 181 dps (179 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 12025 @87dps

Sema
--- DMG: 24726 (2.51%) @ 161 dps (161 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 152460 @996dps

Tierilo
--- DMG: 23885 (2.42%) @ 336 dps (155 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 8352 @642dps
--- Special: X

Tevinter
--- DMG: 19741 (2%) @ 163 dps (128 sdps)

Brao
--- DMG: 14785 (1.5%) @ 110 dps (96 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 10070 @120dps

Bastian
--- DMG: 12710 (1.29%) @ 90 dps (83 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 27968 @337dps

Derpasaur
--- DMG: 11393 (1.16%) @ 160 dps (74 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 7035 @586dps

Gingerlette`s pet
--- DMG: 10716 (1.09%) @ 134 dps (70 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 23895 @703dps

Tierilo`s pet
--- DMG: 7859 (0.8%) @ 131 dps (51 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 18741 @382dps

Gettinslizzard
--- DMG: 2057 (0.21%) @ 14 dps (13 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 25215 @304dps

Catarina`s pet
--- DMG: 1292 (0.13%) @ 68 dps (8 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 18621 @931dps

Galsan`s pet
--- DMG: 115 (0.01%) @ 29 dps (1 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 1305 @1305dps

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
 
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Olive said:
Zaela did make a pretty big overhaul to instruments when they were changed to use one hand instead of two. Some other changes were suggested and I believe the Runic 2 was also changed at that time. Not too bad! The larger issue of instruments and bard dps would need a new thread. I hope this answers your questions.
Click to expand...

I definitely understand the lull in melee, swapping to an instrument(well, let's be honest, a flute) although while I don't have this item myself, a guildie got http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Call_of_the_Ancient on his wizard and seems to still be flagged as a 2hander.
 
Raxton said:
A perfected bone golem on 4/17/2013 in 154sec
Click to expand...

don't mean to be too trolly but really all this is an indication of is that Gares is the only person in your guild who does on-tier dps

honestly, i feel like bards do too much dps at high tier for the utility they bring. fiery ALONE probably accounts for 2k dps

Combined: Warchief Rujik Moktar on 4/8/2013 in 512sec

Total
--- DMG: 6767991 (100%) @ 13219 dps (13219 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 2659247 @5224dps

Solosolki + pets
--- DMG: 737362 (10.89%) @ 1452 dps (1440 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 104393 @213dps

Reinhardt + pets
--- DMG: 702294 (10.38%) @ 1413 dps (1372 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 114676 @290dps

Kjiel + pets
--- DMG: 677196 (10.01%) @ 1333 dps (1323 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 264789 @670dps

Lleoc + pets
--- DMG: 653118 (9.65%) @ 1281 dps (1276 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 100156 @254dps

Reehs + pets
--- DMG: 564941 (8.35%) @ 1119 dps (1103 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 14978 @60dps

Madelin
--- DMG: 536383 (7.93%) @ 1062 dps (1048 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 95282 @241dps

Zapple + pets
--- DMG: 520414 (7.69%) @ 1031 dps (1016 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 223182 @565dps

Barbii + pets
--- DMG: 478311 (7.07%) @ 1085 dps (934 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 149767 @439dps
--- Special: X

Jraul
--- DMG: 312530 (4.62%) @ 829 dps (610 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 137181 @448dps
--- Special: X

Eisley
--- DMG: 301074 (4.45%) @ 597 dps (588 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 100017 @203dps

Lumineve
--- DMG: 279990 (4.14%) @ 560 dps (547 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 114795 @291dps
 
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This was our first raid after reforming and ya we have no on tier caster dps to beat him on short bursty fights like this one. i just wanted to show that bards can dps altho gares doesnt usually top the parses.
 
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derp only got to attack till adds cause he had a pbaoe wep... not fair...

also raxton L2combine....
 
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